Delta VS Radius Arms (4 Viewers)

[Heckraiser]

Slee - Drivetrain - Drive Train Service Parts

 

[Delta VS]

Slee - Drivetrain - Drive Train Service Parts

It’s amazing how much stuff is hidden away on that site. I hope they upgrade it soon. @baldilocks, I think that’s your solution right there!

 

[Heckraiser]

There has been some conjecture on MUD (lol...) that these bearings are not as good of quality as OEM, but a lot easier than a cut and turn!

 

[Delta VS]

There has been some conjecture on MUD (lol...) that these bearings are not as good of quality as OEM, but a lot easier than a cut and turn!

With the metallurgy involved in bearing surfaces, I’m not the least bit surprised there is question about their quality, but in all reality, those aren’t “spinning” bearings and would most likely outlast any 80 series in even heavy use. Or are there actually reports of them failing?

 

[Heckraiser]

I haven't even heard first hand reports of them being used outside of Australia, so probably just the usual MUD "if it's not OEM, it will kill you."

 

[Delta VS]

I haven't even heard first hand reports of them being used outside of Australia, so probably just the usual MUD "if it's not OEM, it will kill you."

Oh yes, that argument. The one that always looks beyond gvw, springs, tires, current draw, OEM geometry, etc...

 

[baldilocks]

You could use 3* offset trunnion bearings as an alternative to cut and turn. That would put you right in the middle of spec without moving your pinion.

The first time I saw these, I thought that they looked like they would be weak on the one side. I run 37’s and drive over rocks. I’m not sure I would trust these bearings.

It think I read something somewhere about these bearings failing.

And besides, a C&T isn’t really too difficult. No matter which approach is taken, bearings or cutting, tie rod to radius arm interference
woukd most likely dictate a high steer conversion.

If I knew for sure that a set of Delta arms would set me up with good castor and a pinion angle that would work with a standard drive shaft, I’d be happy with that too.

 

[Delta VS]

If I knew for sure that a set of Delta arms would set me up with good castor and a pinion angle that would work with a standard drive shaft, I’d be happy with that too.

Well, if you're willing to go back to a standard driveshaft, that MIGHT work. Our arms simply drop the axle straight down (in a perfect world). Can you take the measurements at the beginning of this thread and post them up? That's really the only way to determine what will/won't work. Should get the same measurement for the rear as well (panhard bolts and difference between them).

If you are actually lifted 5", the 6" arms will put you about 4.5 or so degrees of caster. Since the relationship between the pinion and caster is fixed, your pinion will be a little steeper than stock, just the facts of life. We can make you custom arms that would put you at exactly 3* of caster and the associated stock pinion angle, if so desired, but there would be a little extra cost and some leadtime with something like that.

On edit: if c&t and hi-steer is in your comfort zone and on your list of "needed anyways", that might be the better route?

 

[bugsnbikes]

How much do these arms weigh in comparison to stock arms?

And are you doing anything to raise and lengthen the rear UCA mounts so the uppers are back to parallel like the panhard ? I ended up lengthening rear lca and uca as well as raising the panhard and uca mounts and it basically got the high speed side shimmy out of the rear with 3.5" lift/37s.

Also im curious to see what type of longevity the stock bushings end up having with the added bending /articulation with narrower arms/limiters. Given the oem setup is pretty durable id imagine even half the life will still see 60k. Before they break down.

 

[Delta VS]

1. How much do these arms weigh in comparison to stock arms?

2. And are you doing anything to raise and lengthen the rear UCA mounts so the uppers are back to parallel like the panhard ? I ended up lengthening rear lca and uca as well as raising the panhard and uca mounts and it basically got the high speed side shimmy out of the rear with 3.5" lift/37s.

3. Also im curious to see what type of longevity the stock bushings end up having with the added bending /articulation with narrower arms/limiters. Given the oem setup is pretty durable id imagine even half the life will still see 60k. Before they break down.

1.
Stock arms: 17 lbs
Delta 2" arms: 25 lbs

2.
We have not gone down the road of messing with rear links or their attachment points. Considering that, but lower on priority list, especially since greater than 95% of drive issues seem to be solved when caster is correct and rear panhard is flat-ish.

3.
What do you mean by limiters? Just curious. The amount of extra "movement" is so small I would be very surprised if there is any considerable accelerated wear.

 

[bugsnbikes]

The wide stock arm in the narrow stock mount acts to limit the bushes articulation range. And it looks like your narrow arms in that bush area is supposed to provide a bit more flex/range of articulation which i imagine ot does. So a little less limit / until articulation naturally stops with arm to mount contact.

With lighter rigs- 5000lbs ish....and a progressive spring rate/100-200lbs addt load carrying per corner - you can delete/not run a front sway bar with good results mainly due to the load carry of the springs coupled with firmness of the stock bushes and their control of the front end. with real heavy rigs im not sure id want to delete the swaybar and also run a narrower arm at both the front and rear bushings. Theres plenty of ways to skin that cat tho with swaybar drop pins etc to keep a swaybar for trips and detach on trail.

 

[Delta VS]

1. The wide stock arm in the narrow stock mount acts to limit the bushes articulation range. And it looks like your narrow arms in that bush area is supposed to provide a bit more flex/range of articulation which i imagine ot does. So a little less limit / until articulation naturally stops with arm to mount contact.

2. With lighter rigs- 5000lbs ish....and a progressive spring rate/100-200lbs addt load carrying per corner - you can delete/not run a front sway bar with good results mainly due to the load carry of the springs coupled with firmness of the stock bushes and their control of the front end. with real heavy rigs im not sure id want to delete the swaybar and also run a narrower arm at both the front and rear bushings.

3. Theres plenty of ways to skin that cat tho with swaybar drop pins etc to keep a swaybar for trips and detach on trail.

1. I would be incredibly surprised if the arm/axle contact actually limits travel/flex in any serious amount. It is my personal opinion the arm is going to "push" the sheetmetal bracket out of the way before the axle stops moving. Our arms are narrower so there isn't any contact and the stress on the axle induced by that "push" is minimized.

2. I see you also like to live dangerously...

3. We recommend @LandCruiserPhil's brackets for this kind of behavior waaaaaay more than simply running without.

 

[Will Van]

Ideally, what data do you need to supply the correct caster arm?

The front and rear panhard attachment bolt measurements (explained here), and the current caster specs? Or can you figure it out without the alignment/caster specs?

FWIW, I have a 2.5" OME lift with OME caster correction bushings. I think the truck currently has about -1.0* of front caster. I can get the alignment specs if I have to.

Front Panhard Lower Bolt = 16.5"
Front Panhard Upper Bolt = 19.25"

Rear Panhard Lower Bolt = 17.5"
Rear Panhard Upper Bolt = 20.25"

Thanks!

 

[Delta VS]

Ideally, what data do you need to supply the correct caster arm?

The front and rear panhard attachment bolt measurements (explained here), and the current caster specs? Or can you figure it out without the alignment/caster specs?

FWIW, I have a 2.5" OME lift with OME caster correction bushings. I think the truck currently has about -1.0* of front caster. I can get the alignment specs if I have to.

Front Panhard Lower Bolt = 16.5"
Front Panhard Upper Bolt = 19.25"

Rear Panhard Lower Bolt = 17.5"
Rear Panhard Upper Bolt = 20.25"

Thanks!

Alignment specs would be incredibly helpful, but not necessary. We are still trying to compile as much data as possible so we (and others) can make more informed decisions in the future. Knowing your numbers and that you have the offset bushings is well on the way though. Will see what we can come up with.

 

[baldilocks]

Well, if you're willing to go back to a standard driveshaft, that MIGHT work. Our arms simply drop the axle straight down (in a perfect world). Can you take the measurements at the beginning of this thread and post them up? That's really the only way to determine what will/won't work. Should get the same measurement for the rear as well (panhard bolts and difference between them).

If you are actually lifted 5", the 6" arms will put you about 4.5 or so degrees of caster. Since the relationship between the pinion and caster is fixed, your pinion will be a little steeper than stock, just the facts of life. We can make you custom arms that would put you at exactly 3* of caster and the associated stock pinion angle, if so desired, but there would be a little extra cost and some leadtime with something like that.

On edit: if c&t and hi-steer is in your comfort zone and on your list of "needed anyways", that might be the better route?

I was maybe the second member to post those measurements to the link you guys provided a couple months ago or more. If you need more info or can’t find the measurements I already posted let me know.

 

[Delta VS]

I was maybe the second member to post those measurements to the link you guys provided a couple months ago or more. If you need more info or can’t find the measurements I already posted let me know.

!

That should cover it. Sorry, a lot of info going in and out these days...I will let you know if anything else is needed. AND, thank you for putting your info in!!

 

[bugsnbikes]

2. I see you also like to live dangerously...

3. We recommend @LandCruiserPhil's brackets for this kind of behavior waaaaaay more than simply running without.

2. Haha- front swaybar delete is far less dangerous than running 37s/38s on stock brakes. Again, even on lighter rigs with a 100-200lb over stock progressive cold rolled spring like the FrankiesSprings im still waaaaay more afraid of the braking issue than swaybar. Swaybar delete is truly a non-issue if driving within the braking/tire size constaints that ultimately need to be observed with big tires and lift.

 

[Will Van]

Ideally, what data do you need to supply the correct caster arm?

The front and rear panhard attachment bolt measurements (explained here), and the current caster specs? Or can you figure it out without the alignment/caster specs?

FWIW, I have a 2.5" OME lift with OME caster correction bushings. I think the truck currently has about -1.0* of front caster. I can get the alignment specs if I have to.

Front Panhard Lower Bolt = 16.5"
Front Panhard Upper Bolt = 19.25"

Rear Panhard Lower Bolt = 17.5"
Rear Panhard Upper Bolt = 20.25"

Thanks!

Alignment specs would be incredibly helpful, but not necessary. We are still trying to compile as much data as possible so we (and others) can make more informed decisions in the future. Knowing your numbers and that you have the offset bushings is well on the way though. Will see what we can come up with.

Here are the alignment specs. Front caster is 1.6* on the left and 1.7* on the right. This is with the OME caster correction bushings installed (2* caster).

What radius arms should I get? The 2 inch lift? Or 4 inch lift? I'm OK with running a little extra caster.

 

[Delta VS]

Here are the alignment specs. Front caster is 1.6* on the left and 1.7* on the right. This is with the OME caster correction bushings installed (2* caster).

What radius arms should I get? The 2 inch lift? Or 4 inch lift? I'm OK with running a little extra caster.

The 2" arms are going to add ~3.5*, 4" arms about 7*, and the 6" arms ~10.6*.

So if you're at about -.4* with stock bushings (if I'm reading you right? 1.6*-2*), the 2" arms will put you at about 3*, the 4" will put you about 6.5* which seems like a lot. I've driven a rig with somewhere between 7* and 10* and did not like it.

 

[Will Van]

The 2" arms are going to add ~3.5*, 4" arms about 7*, and the 6" arms ~10.6*.

So if you're at about -.4* with stock bushings (if I'm reading you right? 1.6*-2*), the 2" arms will put you at about 3*, the 4" will put you about 6.5* which seems like a lot. I've driven a rig with somewhere between 7* and 10* and did not like it.

It sounds like the 2” radius arms are perfect. Thanks!