Was that the one that grenaded the rear output and twisted up a square driveline at the hammers years ago?
Cuiser 9" vs 8" high pinion strength
- Thread starter vk7ybi
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
Was that the one that grenaded the rear output and twisted up a square driveline at the hammers years ago?
No clue, apple valley is near the hammers and I don't recognize that trail.
In the video he still had Left side drive, so I think it was just the right rear axle shaft.
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2008
- Threads
- 291
- Messages
- 3,497
- Location
- West MI near GVSU
- Website
- www.mcdesignsoffroad.com
If you're bent on using what you have and capable of doing the fab work, use the 9" LC diff and extend the tubes like you mentioned early on. Leaving the leaves under the frame instead of outboarding them will allow more built in forced articulation by keeping the springs closer together. If you already have the stuff, build it and see what happens.
- Thread starter
- #24
So it seems the general consensus is that its not worth messing with 8" parts and that bigger is better..
I understand the advantage of the 9" gears in reverse.
I understand the advantage of stock width springs, both articulation and tyre clearance.
I just thought I could use up some of the junk thats laying around.. I could build it, but I don't want to build it twice..
I understand the advantage of the 9" gears in reverse.
I understand the advantage of stock width springs, both articulation and tyre clearance.
I just thought I could use up some of the junk thats laying around.. I could build it, but I don't want to build it twice..
I dont mean to thread hijack, but can someone clarify a couple things?
the ball on the front axle, is it the same on a mini, 40, 60 or 80? And which of the them is the biggest? And which is interchangeable?
The knuckle on the 80 is obviously different, but what is the difference in size and strength, between the 40, 60 and 80? Interchangability?
Which is the 9" (id be guessing on the 60), and can someone clarify for interchangability, for front to back on the 60? Is one reverse rotation (HP)
On the 80's the third is different from the front to back, is this on FJ's and FZJ's? (is one HP and not the other)
Crusher mentioned the electric locked third is tougher, what exactly are the differences? Which ones are stronger in reverse vs. forwards ( 60, FJ80, FZJ80)?
What would be the best candidate for front and rear toyota thirds if possible? could a 9" fit in a front 80 diff housing?
I know thats a million questions, seems like the right thread to ask them though...
Please and thanks.
the ball on the front axle, is it the same on a mini, 40, 60 or 80? And which of the them is the biggest? And which is interchangeable?
The knuckle on the 80 is obviously different, but what is the difference in size and strength, between the 40, 60 and 80? Interchangability?
Which is the 9" (id be guessing on the 60), and can someone clarify for interchangability, for front to back on the 60? Is one reverse rotation (HP)
On the 80's the third is different from the front to back, is this on FJ's and FZJ's? (is one HP and not the other)
Crusher mentioned the electric locked third is tougher, what exactly are the differences? Which ones are stronger in reverse vs. forwards ( 60, FJ80, FZJ80)?
What would be the best candidate for front and rear toyota thirds if possible? could a 9" fit in a front 80 diff housing?
I know thats a million questions, seems like the right thread to ask them though...
Please and thanks.
Ball, knuckle and birf are larger on the 80 series axle. 4 bolts hold the lower knuckle bearing retainer on the 80 axle, I believe 2 bolts hold the upper. 80 series parts do not interchange with earlier parts.
40 and 60 series cruisers can swap birfs ( assuming the 40 birfs are fine spline ), as well as minis with the large pattern knuckles. 80 birfs may be stronger due to the size, not sure on that. Not sure on knuckle strength either. Never heard of anyone breaking knuckles on 60s, only knuckle studs. That is fixed with either the 5th stud mod or 6 shooter knuckles. 80 series axles are very hard to find with high steer though, easy to come by on 60 and earlier axles.
The 40, 55, 60 and earlier 70 series cruisers all share the 9.5" diffs front and rear. Early 40 and 55s had coarse spline side gears as well as some had coarse spline pinions, all had varying companion flange patterns. None of them were reverse rotation.
FJ80 and FZJ80 series cruisers had the 8" front and 9.5" rear.
The e-locker diffs are stronger because of the machined carriers.
9.5" diff does not fit in a 80 front housing. As a general rule of thumb, 9.5" diffs are stronger to have front and rear.
Hope that helps, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks!
What seems strange is that the birf, ball and knuckle are bigger on the 80, although the R+P are smaller (and weaker?) than the 60 series.
I am just trying to understand, if the 80 has a bigger birf (and shaft diameter?) could you take the spider gears from an 80, the third from a 60, and then birfs, shafts, balls and knuckles off an 80, and make a hybrid? Are 80 series birfs and inner shafts much beefier than a 60?
Ive seen pics of the Diamond axles with 44's before, Ill have to do a little more searching than hijacking.
Again sorry for the hi-jack...
Cody.
What seems strange is that the birf, ball and knuckle are bigger on the 80, although the R+P are smaller (and weaker?) than the 60 series.
I am just trying to understand, if the 80 has a bigger birf (and shaft diameter?) could you take the spider gears from an 80, the third from a 60, and then birfs, shafts, balls and knuckles off an 80, and make a hybrid? Are 80 series birfs and inner shafts much beefier than a 60?
Ive seen pics of the Diamond axles with 44's before, Ill have to do a little more searching than hijacking.
Again sorry for the hi-jack...
Cody.
Diamond axles are just wicked beefy housings with toyota innards. I have not seen anyone make a hybrid 80 outer / 60 center section housing but like I said, I'm not sure how much stronger the 80 outers are than the 60 outers. The larger birfs may only be to increase their service life as they are used in a full time 4wd application.
That may be possible but hi steer options are limited on a 80 front knuckle. Also, most people just buy longfields.
If you want a near bullet proof toyota (mostly) front end for in a 80 series and need the hi pinion, graft in a nissan patrol front diff center. A few of the comp guys do it here, 60 series diff center section flange, 80 series outers, use a diff patrol center with arb that has cruiser side gears, longfields and its a very stout front axel!!
Thanks Hulsty, although Im not so much looking to build anything at the moment, just understand the diff between the diffs...
Also its a little more difficult to find patrol 3rd's over here. Id have to bother one of you aussie's to mail one this way probably!
Edit: Sorry one more thing, does a 60 inner axle have the same diameter and splines as an 80 where it slides into the diff? And what side do the e-lockers have longer splined shafts on, long or short side?
Also its a little more difficult to find patrol 3rd's over here. Id have to bother one of you aussie's to mail one this way probably!
Edit: Sorry one more thing, does a 60 inner axle have the same diameter and splines as an 80 where it slides into the diff? And what side do the e-lockers have longer splined shafts on, long or short side?
What size ring gear is the patrol setup? I can only imagine it's the same as the 60 if everything else works with it. Why not a 60 center section?
Long splines are on the short side. 80 and 60 series side gear spline count is the same. I just installed an 80 series rear e-locker in my 60 FF rear end:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/180252-rotw-moonshine-glthfj60-12.html#post6133725
In those pics you can see the machined carrier, how the long splined section slides into the diff and what the actuator assembly looks like.
To clarify, the long splines are on the short shaft for the rear axle, long shaft if you put an 80 rear diff in the front axle of an earlier housing. Same position relative to the diff.
This is only true after 1/79. The earlier fine-spline birfs were longer and required different hubs at least; maybe knuckles too.
Not sure when coarse-spline side-gears stopped. You could check on SOR. '76 for sure had fine-spline side gears. Pinions went to fine spline in 1/78. Gear ratios changed to 3.70 in 1/79 in the US Market.[/QUOTE]
Gotchya Curtis,cause you would have to invert the 3rd when taking it from back to front, do they have oiling issues when you do this? I would guess not for a 60 3rd as they musta done this in a 60, hopefully elocked 80 3rds would be the same?
Although im not sure the spline size and diameter front to back would be the same for the rear FF and front inner's on an e-locked 80 or 60. Would the carrier or any of the internals be interchangable from an 80 elocked 8" front -- over to the rear elocked?
Just thinking if you could throw a rear elocked80 in the front of an 80 for the bigger gear size, what other obstacles you'd have to manage.
I need some 80 e-locked axles on the bench to take apart and look at! Ive got Ian's 60 series axles on the floor in my shop right now, but I dont want to pull them apart and repack anything.
Either way this is all good to know before trying to salvage parts for a fix and finding out they are not interchangable.
Last edited:
Patrol R&P is 233mm or ~9.5'' more or less the same as a cruiser third member. The reason people here use the patrol center is its hi pinion which makes fitting the standard steering setup a cinch.
I have not seen anyone running the stock 80 series steering setup with the tie rod behind the axle line and a low pinion center?
Hmmm, so is a Patrol third a drop in replacement? (by drop in I mean minimal machining required.)
Thanks for the clarification RocKDoc and Fast Eddy! This thread is turning into a pretty decent collection of info. 
No inverting of the 9.5" diff when you install a rear in the front. It stays low pinion, hence why front e-lockers, or cable lockers for that matter, have the long splines on the long side like RockDoc said for front applications.
Don't know what you mean with the second question. Spline count and size is the same front to back in a 60, not sure with the 80 as I've never had an 80 HP diff sitting in front of me on the floor. I do not know if you can run an 80 HP front e-locker in the rear of any truck...
Gotcha, a HP 9.5" diff. Very sweet. Have any pictures of a setup like that?
No inverting of the 9.5" diff when you install a rear in the front. It stays low pinion, hence why front e-lockers, or cable lockers for that matter, have the long splines on the long side like RockDoc said for front applications.
Don't know what you mean with the second question. Spline count and size is the same front to back in a 60, not sure with the 80 as I've never had an 80 HP diff sitting in front of me on the floor. I do not know if you can run an 80 HP front e-locker in the rear of any truck...
Gotcha, a HP 9.5" diff. Very sweet. Have any pictures of a setup like that?
A front 80 e-locked third might be a nice touch for a tacoma or 4runner to throw in the rear if it'd fit.
Im going to go climb under my junk for a while before I ask anymore questions, though it is nice to have all the info, even if obvious, spread out in one thread.
Im going to go climb under my junk for a while before I ask anymore questions, though it is nice to have all the info, even if obvious, spread out in one thread.
A hipinion in the rear is a bad idea. It is rotating backwards from normal makin it drive on the coast side of the gears and is weaker then.
(waits for someone to claim its much stronger in reverse tho) haha
Me too, So here's my question. I was/am in the process of putting an 85 front mini axle in the 40, simply because I already have a built axle (4.88's, detroit, etc) left over from the last build, and I've already outboarded the front springs to fit. The 3rd is not a HP, but I was going to wheel it for a while then spring for a HP 3rd. If it was you, would you do this, or just buy a locker and gears for the 9.5 LC,and throw the knuckles on from the 85 mini? At this point there is not much difference dollar wise either way.
