Clutch slave cylinder / fork alignment (1 Viewer)

[JustJay]

Replaced the master / slave cylinders on my 72' 40 today. The job was partly replacing old / worn parts and part trying to put the right parts in the right places after PO had rigged some things (think hose clamps, etc. ugh).

Elder Statesman hooked me up with the cylinders, brackets, etc. Got it all put together today (minus the missing spring still). All seems to work okay-ish but it seems like the alignment of the slave cylinder / fork to clutch arm is off. Rod moves in and out of slave crooked. Can anyone help direct me to what I may have done wrong.? I should mention that though it's a 72' 40, it has a '78 2F engine but still the 72' transfer case & transmission. (if any of that matters)

 

[Pighead]

it has a '78 2F engine but still the 72' transfer case & transmission.

But, what clutch fork do you have, 3 speed or 4 speed?

 

[JustJay]

But, what clutch fork do you have, 3 speed or 4 spee

Well now that’s a good question. Seems like I’ve got a fitment issue. Been reading through old forums and my head is spinning- ha! Thought all was 3 speed setup but now am having my doubts.

 

[charliemeyer007]

Well it sure looks looks like that alignment is off. Could be a lot of reasons, frame bent, wrong/bent/worn motor mounts, not finished machined boss somewhere... Wrong clutch fork or its bent, throw out bearing to thick/thin as in the wrong one, the fingers on the pressure plate are set wrong. Does the clutch work properly?

You could just heat the rod to cherry red and put a lazy "S" bend in to offset the line of action about 1/2 inch by the looks of the pic; with that dog leg installed, both ends of the rod would operate in the normal manner, not at the angle its working at now. Gravity might shift the rod more out of alignment, but if the bends are equal it should balance.

 

[Pighead]

IIRC, the 3 speed clutch fork is stamped steel and the 4 speed is cast. Yours looks stamped and might need the 3 speed pushrod

 

[JustJay]

Well it sure looks looks like that alignment is off. Could be a lot of reasons, frame bent, wrong/bent/worn motor mounts, not finished machined boss somewhere... Wrong clutch fork or its bent, throw out bearing to thick/thin as in the wrong one, the fingers on the pressure plate are set wrong. Does the clutch work properly?

You could just heat the rod to cherry red and put a lazy "S" bend in to offset the line of action about 1/2 inch by the looks of the pic; with that dog leg installed, both ends of the rod would operate in the normal manner, not at the angle its working at now. Gravity might shift the rod more out of alignment, but if the bends are equal it should balance.

Thanks for input. I tend to think alignment has something to do with the engine swap and one of those "loose ends" that wasn't ever dealt with. Explains why the last slave cylinder was held on using a hose clamp. Yes, the clutch does work properly - at least for now. I'm sure either it'd go bad or the slave would go bad pretty quick if I left it as-is.

Interesting idea about the lazy "S." I'm a bit suspect that it'd stay in place and wouldn't shift sideways with use. Will have to give that one some thought...

 

[JustJay]

IIRC, the 3 speed clutch fork is stamped steel and the 4 speed is cast. Yours looks stamped and might need the 3 speed pushrod

I'll poke around a little more under there and see what I can find out as far as what I've got. Is the best way to tell the "gearing" of the clutch by looking at the fork?

Would simply swapping out the slave pushrod potentially do the trick? I'd like to resolve this by swapping out the slave pushrod, cylinder, mounts, etc. as opposed to getting into the clutch / fork itself. No secret that I'm playing mechanic on the weekends!

 

[Paul_A]

I would take a look at the mounting bracket and see if you can't locate the slave more into alignment. A bit off will be OK but that is too much. And get that spring back on there to help secure against the rod slipping out of the fork detent.

 

[73FJ40]

Are you certain your slave cylinder is the correct one for the three speed arrangement? The four speed slave is different, and there has been some discussion IIRC that a four speed slave installed on the driver's side will result in a misalignment. Not my personal experience, but something to consider..

 

[JustJay]

Are you certain your slave cylinder is the correct one for the three speed arrangement? The four speed slave is different, and there has been some discussion IIRC that a four speed slave installed on the driver's side will result in a misalignment. Not my personal experience, but something to consider..

Good thought. Can’t say I’m sure of much - ha! Anyone have a side by side of 3speed vs 4speed slave? I could prob tell if that’d help my alignment.

 

[bikersmurf]

The 2F engine would have the slave on the passenger (right side). This motor mount doesn't look correct to mount a slave on the left side. I see a nut added between the mount and the slave. I'd remove the nut and grind down the boss that the other is mounted to to correct the miss-alignment. It would appear to be the source of the problem.

 

[zerotreedelta]

I don't know the 3-speeds...but it does seem like you have the older style engine mount, and the older style arm.

From my '76:

 

[Pighead]

Is the best way to tell the "gearing" of the clutch by looking at the fork?

I dunno about gearing, but you can see what clutch you have by lying underneath it and looking up. With the clutch inspection cover removed of course. You will see if you have the early, 3 speed, 3 finger pressure plate or the modren diaphragm 4 speed type. You can also see if you have the heavier 3 speed flywheel. The pressure plate must match the throw out bearing and it's carrier which must match the fork which must match the pushrod AND the fork pivot which is threaded into the bellhousing and which the 3 and 4 speeds are different.
Also, I don't know the difference between the early and late cylinders.
I bet if an Elder Statesman were to see your pics the answer would be made obvious.
Maybe the cylinder only fits on your passenger side, all you have to do is make the fork stick out the other side...

 

[73FJ40]

The rear bracket, driver side, is a different part number starting in Jan 1975:

 

[JustJay]

I dunno about gearing, but you can see what clutch you have by lying underneath it and looking up. With the clutch inspection cover removed of course. You will see if you have the early, 3 speed, 3 finger pressure plate or the modren diaphragm 4 speed type. You can also see if you have the heavier 3 speed flywheel. The pressure plate must match the throw out bearing and it's carrier which must match the fork which must match the pushrod AND the fork pivot which is threaded into the bellhousing and which the 3 and 4 speeds are different.
Also, I don't know the difference between the early and late cylinders.
I bet if an Elder Statesman were to see your pics the answer would be made obvious.
Maybe the cylinder only fits on your passenger side, all you have to do is make the fork stick out the other side...

Good call. I'll see what I can identify (hopefully tomorrow sometime). I'm sure you're right about ES knowing the answer in an instant. I may reach out later this week for his sage advice.

 

[JustJay]

The 2F engine would have the slave on the passenger (right side). This motor mount doesn't look correct to mount a slave on the left side. I see a nut added between the mount and the slave. I'd remove the nut and grind down the boss that the other is mounted to to correct the miss-alignment. It would appear to be the source of the problem.

I think you're right. I'd like to get a better understanding of the big picture of what was done stock vs 2f "upgrade" but that'll come in time. Your mod could be a good work-around option if other, more conventional, methods are too involved.

 

[rkymtnflyfisher]

This motor mount doesn't look correct to mount a slave on the left side. I see a nut added between the mount and the slave.

That's the first thing I noticed myself.

 

[Living in the Past]

Anyone notice anything off on the motor mount to the frame?

 

[73FJ40]

Anyone notice anything off on the motor mount to the frame?

A bolt holding the bracket to the bell housing is missing, to the passenger side of the slave push rod.

The top motor mount puck is missing, likely the decision of the OP, since he used a short retaining bolt.

My vote is that the clutch fork is off the pivot ball.

Below is a picture of my '73 with original F engine, original rear bracket on original bell housing. If you sight down the slave cylinder/push rod, which goes straight into the fork, you can see the axis is more-or-less in line with the transmission cover screw coming out of the weld nut, just above the axis.

In the OP #1, second picture, the slave cylinder axis seems to be in line with the weld nut, but the push rod angles inboard to the fork. It may be a distortion due to camera angle, but it's worth checking out.

But, what clutch fork do you have, 3 speed or 4 speed?

Definitely a 3 speed fork. Stamped steel, pocket (not hole) for push rod, not a square boss for the tension spring hole as in the 4 speed fork. Definitely a 3 speed push rod. The 3 speed push rod has an 'acorn' style nut on the end that sits in a pocket stamped into the fork. The 4 speed push rod has a threaded end that extends through the 4 speed cast fork.

The 2F engine would have the slave on the passenger (right side). This motor mount doesn't look correct to mount a slave on the left side. I see a nut added between the mount and the slave. I'd remove the nut and grind down the boss that the other is mounted to to correct the miss-alignment. It would appear to be the source of the problem.

The nut is not butting up against the mount. The angle of the picture makes it appear that way, but the nut is fastened to the front bolt holding the slave cylinder in place. See the picture below:

 

[73FJ40]

@JustJay

One more item; Do you have a copper gasket between the flex hose and the slave cylinder?

Part no. 90430-10027 $1.64 list price at your local Toyota dealer.