Thanks for all the good ideas guys! so if I got this straight, the wire running to the actuator motor runs right inside to the motor without a plug there? That might make testing it a bit difficult...
CDL Actuator Fun (2 Viewers)
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asutherland
VA7 HDT
Hey Tools... I am hoping you can help me. I don't know if you've read my thread, https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/597743-cdl-relay-chatter.html
I was 100% sure the last time I had it solved. Basically, initially, my breather hose rotted and fell off, allowing water and dirt into the actuator causing the motor to bind up/get dirty. I was able to pull it apart, clean it, salvaged the 3 prong contacts for the limit switch from my old rear locker, and rebuild the actuator.
When I installed it the first time, I did so with the xfer case and actuator unlocked. There was slack in the idler gear. The CDL worked again, but the light flickered as it went in...which I thought was weird. But I ignored it and everything was fine for a few weeks. Then at a trail head, it stopped working - I tried to actuate it via the dash button, no clicking of relays or anything... just a drain on the battery (you could tell because the battery gauge would dip as the button was pushed in).
So I took it back out, and what had happened was the spiral springs had lodged themselves up and onto the casing of the actuator... that little physical "limit" raised section along the bottom of the case.
Wtf I thought??? So I figured it was because of the slack int he idler when I had installed with both unlocked, and the xfer had fed back into the motor pushing it farther than it should have gone.
So this time I installed it with both parts locked. (I did as you did, locked the actuator, and locked the xfer case by reaching inside the xfer and pushing the idler gear towards the back of the truck at the same time as kicking the rear tire (that was in the air) until the CDL light came on and I could 'feel' it slip into place.
With both locked, there was no slack in the idler gear. I reinstalled, and it locked like it always did! Good news. Click button, whirrr, click (relays), light comes on. Perfect. I even tried it at intersections randomly for a week or so just to be sure I had it done. Everything worked great.
Then I got out onto the trail head, put it in Low, and hit the CDL button. SAME PROBLEM. Battery drain, no clicking of relays, no CDL.
Any idea how the spiral springs are getting forced too far past their electrical limit via the contacts on the Contact Plate? It's only done this since I had the CDL apart originally to clean it out.
I am getting really annoyed and desperate now
I was 100% sure the last time I had it solved. Basically, initially, my breather hose rotted and fell off, allowing water and dirt into the actuator causing the motor to bind up/get dirty. I was able to pull it apart, clean it, salvaged the 3 prong contacts for the limit switch from my old rear locker, and rebuild the actuator.
When I installed it the first time, I did so with the xfer case and actuator unlocked. There was slack in the idler gear. The CDL worked again, but the light flickered as it went in...which I thought was weird. But I ignored it and everything was fine for a few weeks. Then at a trail head, it stopped working - I tried to actuate it via the dash button, no clicking of relays or anything... just a drain on the battery (you could tell because the battery gauge would dip as the button was pushed in).
So I took it back out, and what had happened was the spiral springs had lodged themselves up and onto the casing of the actuator... that little physical "limit" raised section along the bottom of the case.
Wtf I thought??? So I figured it was because of the slack int he idler when I had installed with both unlocked, and the xfer had fed back into the motor pushing it farther than it should have gone.
So this time I installed it with both parts locked. (I did as you did, locked the actuator, and locked the xfer case by reaching inside the xfer and pushing the idler gear towards the back of the truck at the same time as kicking the rear tire (that was in the air) until the CDL light came on and I could 'feel' it slip into place.
With both locked, there was no slack in the idler gear. I reinstalled, and it locked like it always did! Good news. Click button, whirrr, click (relays), light comes on. Perfect. I even tried it at intersections randomly for a week or so just to be sure I had it done. Everything worked great.
Then I got out onto the trail head, put it in Low, and hit the CDL button. SAME PROBLEM. Battery drain, no clicking of relays, no CDL.
Any idea how the spiral springs are getting forced too far past their electrical limit via the contacts on the Contact Plate? It's only done this since I had the CDL apart originally to clean it out.
I am getting really annoyed and desperate now
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...
So I took it back out, and what had happened was the spiral springs had lodged themselves up and onto the casing of the actuator... that little physical "limit" raised section along the bottom of the case.
...
Any idea how the spiral springs are getting forced too far past their electrical limit via the contacts on the Contact Plate? It's only done this since I had the CDL apart originally to clean it out.
I am getting really annoyed and desperate now
The slip switch on the top of the gear "times" the motor, only allows it to run in the needed travel. The only ways I see of it running outside of the allowed range, is outside supplied power or a problem in the control box. Have seen a couple jammed like that from attempting to run the motor with a battery or outside power, bad idea. If a relay is sticking or some other problem with the control box, would cause that problem. Maybe try swapping a known good box?
If the actuator gets jammed, unplug it or remove the fuse, until repairs can be made. If it isn't in the lock or unlocked position, it will send power to the motor attempting to shift into position and can burn the motor up, $$$.
asutherland
VA7 HDT
Thanks Kevin. It's stuck in the unlocked position, as it was the previous time. It messed itself up randomly sometime over the previous couple weeks, when I didn't even put the truck in 4low or attempt CDL. Very odd.
I also have done the Pin 7 mod, so I don't need to worry about it attempting to lock and burning out when I put it in 4low (thankfully)
What part is the slip switch? Are you talking about the Contact plate on the driven gear and the 3 prongs?
The wierd part is when I reassembled, it worked flawlessly for a week or more. Then without playing with it at all, it somehow jammed itself. Somehow it's allowing it to go past the keyed notches on the contact plate
Question, when you put the driven gear back into the actuator housing, does it matter what way it goes in? (12 o-clock, 1 o-clock, 2 o-clock etc)
I also have done the Pin 7 mod, so I don't need to worry about it attempting to lock and burning out when I put it in 4low (thankfully)
What part is the slip switch? Are you talking about the Contact plate on the driven gear and the 3 prongs?
The wierd part is when I reassembled, it worked flawlessly for a week or more. Then without playing with it at all, it somehow jammed itself. Somehow it's allowing it to go past the keyed notches on the contact plate
Question, when you put the driven gear back into the actuator housing, does it matter what way it goes in? (12 o-clock, 1 o-clock, 2 o-clock etc)
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That is unusual, but it can't just move, must be getting power from somewhere.
Switch type or activation doesn't matter. If it is jammed out of position, the slip switch/contact plate will close the relay, attempt to drive the motor until it is in the unlock position. If it can't move, can burn up the motor.
If you look at the diagram in post 45, the relay is powered from the ign switch/diff fuse. Ground comes from the limit switch/slip switch/contact plate. So, if out of position, will attempt to run the motor anytime the ign is on, regardless of CDL switch or shifter position.
Yes.
The wierd part is when I reassembled, it worked flawlessly for a week or more. Then without playing with it at all, it somehow jammed itself. Somehow it's allowing it to go past the keyed notches on the contact plate
Question, when you put the driven gear back into the actuator housing, does it matter what way it goes in? (12 o-clock, 1 o-clock, 2 o-clock etc)
My best guess is: It is getting a ground short somewhere, randomly closing one of the relays. Or it has a problem in the control box causing the same result? Carefully check the harness around the CDL, have seen them chaffed enough to short.
I install them centered, between limits, connect an ohm meter to the lock relay output connections and move it until the connection opens. Likely isn't needed, if it is installed somewhere in the center, when plugged in, powered on, will go to switch position (locked or unlocked). I always plug it in and run it through a few cycles locked to unlocked, etc, before bolting the actuator on.
asutherland
VA7 HDT
It must be getting stuck while IN the unlocked position then. It definitely is not attempting to lock or unlock currently. When I press the CDL button, I can actually watch the battery voltage meter drop a little and the interior lights dim as it tries to move the stuck gear. Do you know what the purpose is of the raised key bit on the inside of the actuator housing? This thing. (attached pic) One of the edges of the spiral spring is getting jammed up on-top of this little raised bit.
That's a good idea, I will check. It would be easier for the relays to get GND by mistake and attempt to move because of it.
Yes, I did that each time - ran the motor through a dozen lock/unlock while it was out of the xfer case to confirm it was working properly. Seemed to work perfectly, for a couple weeks.
Last edited:
asutherland
VA7 HDT
Any thoughts?
asutherland
VA7 HDT
I think I know what's going on. There is no electrical problem. I removed the top of the actuator, and the Driven gear had not gone past the contacts (that tell it to stop). And therefore it was no-where close to that risen part of the casing. But it was definitely jammed up somewhere else.
What appears to be happening is the Drive gear (the screw looking thing coming from the armature) is catching on the edge of the casing of the spiral springs.
Normally this spiral spring casing edge passes underneath the Drive screw as the Driven gear moves from Unlock to Lock positions. But there is a slight (VERY SLIGHT) amount of up-down give in the whole assembly, allowing the very edge to catch and the screw to drive right up onto the metal spring casing.
What I have done to attempt remediation is two fold,
1) I put a small washer and a bit of grease in the top cap (where the Driven gear touches the top of the casing lid), making the slight up-down give disappear. I essentially had to tighten the screws on the actuator lid to get the lid on. This provides downward force onto the entire internal assembly, keeping the edge that was catching away from the Drive screw.
2) I used my dremel and ground away the edge of the spring casing, making it smooth and slightly thinner.
Hopefully this resolves it permanently. If it starts acting up again, I will replace the whole actuator.
Andrew
What appears to be happening is the Drive gear (the screw looking thing coming from the armature) is catching on the edge of the casing of the spiral springs.
Normally this spiral spring casing edge passes underneath the Drive screw as the Driven gear moves from Unlock to Lock positions. But there is a slight (VERY SLIGHT) amount of up-down give in the whole assembly, allowing the very edge to catch and the screw to drive right up onto the metal spring casing.
What I have done to attempt remediation is two fold,
1) I put a small washer and a bit of grease in the top cap (where the Driven gear touches the top of the casing lid), making the slight up-down give disappear. I essentially had to tighten the screws on the actuator lid to get the lid on. This provides downward force onto the entire internal assembly, keeping the edge that was catching away from the Drive screw.
2) I used my dremel and ground away the edge of the spring casing, making it smooth and slightly thinner.
Hopefully this resolves it permanently. If it starts acting up again, I will replace the whole actuator.
Andrew
My CDL quit a few weeks ago.
Prior to it quitting, I got stuck in a deep, sandy creek and the truck sat in the water for an hour. It was leaning to the passenger side so I didn't have water in the drivers side and the engine was safe as it was tire deep(265's) on the passenger side. However, the back right corner had water almost to the back window(within a few inches).
I had the truck(95 FZJ80) for a week prior and the creek incident was only my second day to drive it.
Anyway, after draining everything and drying it all out I was OK.
2 weeks and about 6 trailrides later my CDL light quit working( I didn't notice and actually drove out of the woods on a pretty rough road). While airing up near the pavement, I noticed it.
Now I have no center diff. L4 switch does not run actuator when jumped. 4 wheel neutral still switch lights up AT/P light. Jumping the 4WD indicator switch lights the diff lock and ABS light. Shifting to low makes a click at the tranny relay.
The actuator must be toast as the water was right up on it if not above. I had water about 1 inch deep right where the rear heat vent is. Again it was leaning to the passenger side and sloped to the passenger rear in a flowing, sandy creek. I mean sand like the Gulf Coast panhandle beaches, Really fine sand carried in current.
I was gonna try and get the actuator off today but did the distribuor o ring and belts instead. Plus tried to get an old Jeep suffering from ethanol poisoning running.
After I did all of the above, wouldn't it be a safe bet to pull the actuator? Should I even touch the tranny relay? Would it click if it was shot?
Prior to it quitting, I got stuck in a deep, sandy creek and the truck sat in the water for an hour. It was leaning to the passenger side so I didn't have water in the drivers side and the engine was safe as it was tire deep(265's) on the passenger side. However, the back right corner had water almost to the back window(within a few inches).
I had the truck(95 FZJ80) for a week prior and the creek incident was only my second day to drive it.
Anyway, after draining everything and drying it all out I was OK.
2 weeks and about 6 trailrides later my CDL light quit working( I didn't notice and actually drove out of the woods on a pretty rough road). While airing up near the pavement, I noticed it.
Now I have no center diff. L4 switch does not run actuator when jumped. 4 wheel neutral still switch lights up AT/P light. Jumping the 4WD indicator switch lights the diff lock and ABS light. Shifting to low makes a click at the tranny relay.
The actuator must be toast as the water was right up on it if not above. I had water about 1 inch deep right where the rear heat vent is. Again it was leaning to the passenger side and sloped to the passenger rear in a flowing, sandy creek. I mean sand like the Gulf Coast panhandle beaches, Really fine sand carried in current.
I was gonna try and get the actuator off today but did the distribuor o ring and belts instead. Plus tried to get an old Jeep suffering from ethanol poisoning running.
After I did all of the above, wouldn't it be a safe bet to pull the actuator? Should I even touch the tranny relay? Would it click if it was shot?
asutherland
VA7 HDT
I would pull the actuator and check inside for water/corrosion. When putting into 4-low (or hitting the CDL button) the ECT (trans relay) in the driver's kick panel should go "click" then whirrr of the actuator, then "click" a second time to stop the actuator motor.
The ground for the ECT relays actually run through the actuator assembly, this is how the assembly limit switch works. It tells the relay box to shut off by breaking ground to the relays as the limit switch reaches the end of travel.
^ Basically, even if the ECT box doesn't emit any relay clicking, it can still be 100% fault of the actuator.
Hi there all,
Great write up and these forums really assisting me in giving me better idea of my problem. I have the part time 4wd and has recently ceased engaging into 4wd. The cdl light does not switch on and there is absolutely no noise of the motor or actuator working when turned on or engaging in 4L.
So far from reading all the forums I have found out the following:
- shorted the sensor switch with the paper clip but no light comes on but the "clicking" noise can be heard by the steering wheel. No noise by actuator or transfer case heard. What does this tell me? is it an electrical problem or does it confirm electric work and actuator/motor ceased to engage 4wd???
- After not driving the car for couple hours, the motor of the actuator (in red in the above picture) is extremely hot!?!?! does this confirm motor has wound up?
- Many threads mention cleaning the ball on one of the sensor switches. Can't seem to find this "ball" contact. Can anyone post a photo???
Any assistance or feedback will be most appreciated. I am sensing the worst and will be having to replace actuator????
Thanks,
Gareth
Great write up and these forums really assisting me in giving me better idea of my problem. I have the part time 4wd and has recently ceased engaging into 4wd. The cdl light does not switch on and there is absolutely no noise of the motor or actuator working when turned on or engaging in 4L.
So far from reading all the forums I have found out the following:
- shorted the sensor switch with the paper clip but no light comes on but the "clicking" noise can be heard by the steering wheel. No noise by actuator or transfer case heard. What does this tell me? is it an electrical problem or does it confirm electric work and actuator/motor ceased to engage 4wd???
- After not driving the car for couple hours, the motor of the actuator (in red in the above picture) is extremely hot!?!?! does this confirm motor has wound up?
- Many threads mention cleaning the ball on one of the sensor switches. Can't seem to find this "ball" contact. Can anyone post a photo???
Any assistance or feedback will be most appreciated. I am sensing the worst and will be having to replace actuator????
Thanks,
Gareth
I have found an additional CDL failure mechanism. No idea if I did this installing it or t was in this condition as it was a salvage yard part from a Land Cruiser specialist that I will not say as it has been some time since purchasing the part although the part had the much famous magnent liberation. The CDL was popping out and not holding the transfer case in the locked position. I removed the actuator and found that I could rotate the gear by hand. Actuating with my CDL button everything acted normally and I could nomlonger rotate the gear. after reviewing this thread is determined I had better look at the spring. The spring was free to rotate and not retained by the clip as shown. Fortunately I had the original CDL actuator that had brolen magnents. I salvaged the spring mechanism and assembled. One mor issue I ram into is that I broke a feedback wire while installing and had to remove again to repair.
This is an old thread, hope Kevin and others are still getting emails. My CDL has worked since I got the truck 18 months ago. I had to replace both front and rear actuators as they quit, but the CDL only had a wire chaffed problem that I rectified. I use it at least every other week to go on trails, so it gets used. Yesterday while doing trails in Uwharrie, no CDL. The motor does not run on the actuator, can't hear it. The solenoid clicks. How difficult is it to replace it? I had a hard time finding the connector. Jumped the switch connector and it does light up the dash. But no motor sound.
Likely need a new actuator?
Likely need a new actuator?
Old thread and it seems as the years go by there are less and less responses about the CDL issues but I've run out of options and am hoping I can get some help. I have read EVERY thread on CDL issues and cannot seem to solve the problem. This is where I'm at:
94 80 series, CDL dash button, no 7 pin mod. My CDL does not consistently engage when I press the button or when I shift into 4l. I do not consistently hear any noise from the relay in the kick panel. Typically when I hear the click from the relay the CDL light will come on. I've replaced the indicator switch and the relay, still nothing. The trick is the CDL lights up sometimes, and I can't seem to determine and pattern. Sometimes as soon as I start the truck up and push the button the light comes on. Sometimes it doesn't. I drive 2 miles (on pavement) and turn the truck off. Turn it on and push the button and then light comes on (sometimes). Push the button on a dirt road, drive 15-20 minutes and nothing, put it in park with the truck still running, hopped out to unload the truck and when I hopped back in the light was on. I was driving up Top of the World in Moab, pressed the button as soon as i started the trail, 30 minutes plus of driving and nothing, got near the top where i needed the lockers to get over a ledge and still no CDL so i parked and turned it off for about 15 minutes. Started it back up and nothing, so i had to turn around and head down the trail defeated, as soon as i turned the truck around and started heading back i looked down and the light was on. When the light does come on it never flashes, never goes off until I push the button again. It always turns off as soon as I push the button.
As I have stated I have read everything possible and most people with similar issues have found the culprit to be the indicator switch, I replaced that with a new OEM switch, cleaned the harness with electrical cleaner and still the same issue. The next most likely solution was the trans relay, replaced that and cleaned connection, again nothing.
I've checked the ground in the engine compartment, it is solid. I've checked the ground in the kick panel, same story.
Everyone I've called (Slee, Toyota, Irbis Off-road, the Toy Shop) says they don't know what it could be but if it's electrical it could amount to hours and hours of diagnosis without actually solving the problem. Before I throw a thousand dollars at a diagnosis which might not solve anything I'm coming to you guys to see if there is anything else I can check. I've tried tapping on the actuator, cleaning the connections (although I can't seem to unplug the plug on the top/rear of the actuator, the breather hose doesn't help my access). I know it's a long shot, long winded, probably hopeless attempt but I have run out of ideas.
94 80 series, CDL dash button, no 7 pin mod. My CDL does not consistently engage when I press the button or when I shift into 4l. I do not consistently hear any noise from the relay in the kick panel. Typically when I hear the click from the relay the CDL light will come on. I've replaced the indicator switch and the relay, still nothing. The trick is the CDL lights up sometimes, and I can't seem to determine and pattern. Sometimes as soon as I start the truck up and push the button the light comes on. Sometimes it doesn't. I drive 2 miles (on pavement) and turn the truck off. Turn it on and push the button and then light comes on (sometimes). Push the button on a dirt road, drive 15-20 minutes and nothing, put it in park with the truck still running, hopped out to unload the truck and when I hopped back in the light was on. I was driving up Top of the World in Moab, pressed the button as soon as i started the trail, 30 minutes plus of driving and nothing, got near the top where i needed the lockers to get over a ledge and still no CDL so i parked and turned it off for about 15 minutes. Started it back up and nothing, so i had to turn around and head down the trail defeated, as soon as i turned the truck around and started heading back i looked down and the light was on. When the light does come on it never flashes, never goes off until I push the button again. It always turns off as soon as I push the button.
As I have stated I have read everything possible and most people with similar issues have found the culprit to be the indicator switch, I replaced that with a new OEM switch, cleaned the harness with electrical cleaner and still the same issue. The next most likely solution was the trans relay, replaced that and cleaned connection, again nothing.
I've checked the ground in the engine compartment, it is solid. I've checked the ground in the kick panel, same story.
Everyone I've called (Slee, Toyota, Irbis Off-road, the Toy Shop) says they don't know what it could be but if it's electrical it could amount to hours and hours of diagnosis without actually solving the problem. Before I throw a thousand dollars at a diagnosis which might not solve anything I'm coming to you guys to see if there is anything else I can check. I've tried tapping on the actuator, cleaning the connections (although I can't seem to unplug the plug on the top/rear of the actuator, the breather hose doesn't help my access). I know it's a long shot, long winded, probably hopeless attempt but I have run out of ideas.
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The ground for the actuator run relays comes from the position limit wiper switch in the actuator, this has been one of the leading causes of failure. Most times the contact just need cleaning and a skin of grease. Unfortunately they are in the actuator, so if this is the problem, the actuator has to come off, disassemble, clean, lube, etc.
I got a used working actuator from eBay, that fixed my trucks CDL
Good read on this.
Now I have to crawl under the car again and find this actuator.
As mentioned elsewhere: when I push the CDL button I hear the relay "click" but nothing else. No "whirring".
I checked the 20A Diff fuse, replaced it with a new one with the same result.
So I guess the next move is to find the actuator, find the electrical connector and measure if anything is coming through from the relay.
If is does, the actuator is the issue.
Now I have to crawl under the car again and find this actuator.
As mentioned elsewhere: when I push the CDL button I hear the relay "click" but nothing else. No "whirring".
I checked the 20A Diff fuse, replaced it with a new one with the same result.
So I guess the next move is to find the actuator, find the electrical connector and measure if anything is coming through from the relay.
If is does, the actuator is the issue.
No click, could be the solenoid too. If you need to find/replace it, below is what I captured when doing mine.
Izzy's amateur hour
Izzy's amateur hour
I don't know if this will help anyone or not, but my CDL won't engage unless the drivers seat belt is latched. Is it supposed to do that? LOL
