Builds Broski's Adventure Rig build thread (2 Viewers)

[Broski]

+1 to all that @Broski added.

With ram assist you can still "feel" your steering, so it would be more likely operator error than design that broke components when a driver tried to steer when wedged hard in the rocks.

Ram assist decreases forces on:

1. Steering box
2. Sector shaft
3. Pitman arm
4. Frame behind steering box
5. Panhard bushings and frame mount
6. Cross frame brace to panhard frame mount
7. Drag link and rod ends
8. Steering stabilizer (can actually be removed)
9. Passenger side steering arm and knuckle studs

Forces are (potentially) increased on:

1. Tie rod and tie rod ends
2. Knuckle castings
3. Trunnion bearings and pins
4. Spindles
5. Differential housing

We also run pretty small rams on 80s, so there's not enough force to break big components. If you managed to shoehorn a 3" ram back there ... different story (though you wouldn't have the fluid volume to run it, anyway). Guys running full hydro setups and high volume, high pressure pumps in buggies or super modified builds are the ones who tend to break steering components the way you're thinking.

Very well detailed and written !

But I have to disagree with #5 & 6 under Ram Assist decreases forces.
They should actually be under forces are potentially increased.

 

[Feldrian]

Very well detailed and written !

But I have to disagree with #5 & 6 under Ram Assist decreases forces.
They should actually be under forces are potentially increased.

Wheeling hard in the rocks would definitely increase stress on the panhard and associated components, however the actual steering force is significantly born by the axle tube and ram itself, rather than being entirely transmitted down the drag link in a stock configuration.

In order for our stock steering to work the panhard and associated components needs to hold the axle in place while the steering box and drag link pushes or pulls against it to generate a steering moment at the knuckle. By adding a ram some of these forces are now generated by pushing and pulling against the axle tube itself which already has a solid connection to the steering knuckles and therefore takes some of the forces necessary to steer off the panhard and it's connections.

If you unbolt the panhard with the wheels on the ground and an OEM steering configuration and turn the steering back and forth, the body will move side to side and you may get a very small amount of steering. If you perform the same test with a ram assist set up, the truck will still steer normally.

 

[Broski]

Wheeling hard in the rocks would definitely increase stress on the panhard and associated components, however the actual steering force is significantly born by the axle tube and ram itself, rather than being entirely transmitted down the drag link in a stock configuration.

In order for our stock steering to work the panhard and associated components needs to hold the axle in place while the steering box and drag link pushes or pulls against it to generate a steering moment at the knuckle. By adding a ram some of these forces are now generated by pushing and pulling against the axle tube itself which already has a solid connection to the steering knuckles and therefore takes some of the forces necessary to steer off the panhard and it's connections.

If you unbolt the panhard with the wheels on the ground and an OEM steering configuration and turn the steering back and forth, the body will move side to side and you may get a very small amount of steering. If you perform the same test with a ram assist set up, the truck will still steer normally.

I could not have explained that better myself thank you and I totally agree.

The first sentence is where my train of thought is coming from.

Wheeling hard in the rocks is why I and most people add hydro /Ram assist so one could argue that it actually adding stress to those components.
Unlocked street driving it's most likely a wash

 

[Broski]

Well the 10" ram is in and done.

I learned a lot during the process.
1) 10" of throw lock to lock is max on a stock front axle housing, at least on mine.
2) The way I have the ram mounted it turns more to the right then the left
3) The way I have the ram mounted it moves the tie rod more then the 10" of travel the ram has. By about 1/8"

I think this has to do with the way the tie rod moves closer to the axle as you turn.
All of this had me scratching my head and chasing my tail

4) Makes perfect sense, but every time you adjust your toe in you need to adjust your steering stops. I just never thought about it before

I was dead set on getting it right this time so there was a lot of time laying on that piece of cardboard

The first thing I found was that with the 9" ram it was truing about a 1/4" more to the right then to the left, then I could not get more then 9 3/4" of throw out of the steering so I started looking to as why.
It looked like the steering knuckles were hitting the knuckles ball braces that I welded in years ago, so I spent time grinding them back I got a little more but still not 10"
That led me to the Tie rod It was a used replacement and I thought it would be close but not. It was toed out 1/2" instead of being toed in 1/8" again it got me closer but not to 10"
In my mind that only left one thing the steering box, So I disconnected the drag link sure enough the box was not centered and keeping it from getting full throw.
On closer inspection I found that the pitman arm was off two splines on the sector shaft. My bad as I sent the box out to be rebuilt and ported a few years back

Only this time I could not get the dam thing off, so I went and rented a pitmam arm puller but it was a POS and I still could not get it off. so I bought a good one and got it off.
Got the pitmam arm on in the right spot, centered the box and reset the steering wheel.

Then went about finding center with the Knuckles and getting the toe in set.
After that was all dialed in with a big square clamped to the axle housing I marked center full right and full left.
From there I could get placement of the ram mount on the tie rod. the axle mount is a hard mount and has to go were it is. getting the tie rod mount right is crucial to get equal turning both ways.
Turning the steering all the to the right and then pull the ram all the way out and then mark the tie rod, then turn all the way to the left and collapse the ram all the way and mark again.
In theory the marks should be the same but they were not this is where I fingered out the ram was traveling more then the tie rod.

So at this point I decided to shim down the ram to 9 3/4" which is still tight. this give it 9 7/8" of travel with only a 1/8 extra 1/16" each way.
At that I had to play with the ram adjusting back and forth tell I had the travel just in side the the two marks I had made earlier.
Each time checking to be sure that I was hitting the steering stop on each side and that the ram was making full travel.
All of this was very time consuming and frustrating.
In the end I think it all payed off as it turns equally both ways, turns much sharper then it did with the 9" ram a win - win


It will get full tested later this week at Fordyce trail, hopefully all goes well

 

[aztoyman]

That was a lot of work. I'm looking forward to your trail report and how well it worked. I like your videos too......hint hint.

 

[80t0ylc]

Well the 10" ram is in and done.

In the end I think it all payed off as it turns equally both ways, turns much sharper then it did with the 9" ram a win - win


It will get full tested later this week at Fordyce trail, hopefully all goes well

It would be interesting to find out if you were able to reduce the stock turning circle, which is 42 ft, IIRC. (stock tires, wheels, etc…)

 

[FMC80]

That looks like a ton of work. You keep you cruiser very clean underneath! Looks great!

 

[Broski]

It would be interesting to find out if you were able to reduce the stock turning circle, which is 42 ft, IIRC. (stock tires, wheels, etc…)

In theory it should, in stock form the tie rod was traveling 9 5/8" now it's traveling 9 7/8"

That looks like a ton of work. You keep you cruiser very clean underneath! Looks great!

It was more work then I anticipated
Thank you, I like to keep it clean. Right now it's dirtier then I like. there was a lot of mud at SAS from all the extra snow melt run off IH8MUD !!

 

[2fpower]

let the rabbit hole begin.... @1994pd

 

[BILT4ME]

Well the 10" ram is in and done.
View attachment 3432669
I learned a lot during the process.
1) 10" of throw lock to lock is max on a stock front axle housing, at least on mine.
2) The way I have the ram mounted it turns more to the right then the left
3) The way I have the ram mounted it moves the tie rod more then the 10" of travel the ram has. By about 1/8"

I think this has to do with the way the tie rod moves closer to the axle as you turn.
All of this had me scratching my head and chasing my tail

4) Makes perfect sense, but every time you adjust your toe in you need to adjust your steering stops. I just never thought about it before

I was dead set on getting it right this time so there was a lot of time laying on that piece of cardboard

The first thing I found was that with the 9" ram it was truing about a 1/4" more to the right then to the left, then I could not get more then 9 3/4" of throw out of the steering so I started looking to as why.
It looked like the steering knuckles were hitting the knuckles ball braces that I welded in years ago, so I spent time grinding them back I got a little more but still not 10"
That led me to the Tie rod It was a used replacement and I thought it would be close but not. It was toed out 1/2" instead of being toed in 1/8" again it got me closer but not to 10"
In my mind that only left one thing the steering box, So I disconnected the drag link sure enough the box was not centered and keeping it from getting full throw.
On closer inspection I found that the pitman arm was off two splines on the sector shaft. My bad as I sent the box out to be rebuilt and ported a few years back

Only this time I could not get the dam thing off, so I went and rented a pitmam arm puller but it was a POS and I still could not get it off. so I bought a good one and got it off.
Got the pitmam arm on in the right spot, centered the box and reset the steering wheel.

Then went about finding center with the Knuckles and getting the toe in set.
After that was all dialed in with a big square clamped to the axle housing I marked center full right and full left.
From there I could get placement of the ram mount on the tie rod. the axle mount is a hard mount and has to go were it is. getting the tie rod mount right is crucial to get equal turning both ways.
Turning the steering all the to the right and then pull the ram all the way out and then mark the tie rod, then turn all the way to the left and collapse the ram all the way and mark again.
In theory the marks should be the same but they were not this is where I fingered out the ram was traveling more then the tie rod.
View attachment 3432833
View attachment 3432834
So at this point I decided to shim down the ram to 9 3/4" which is still tight. this give it 9 7/8" of travel with only a 1/8 extra 1/16" each way.
At that I had to play with the ram adjusting back and forth tell I had the travel just in side the the two marks I had made earlier.
Each time checking to be sure that I was hitting the steering stop on each side and that the ram was making full travel.
All of this was very time consuming and frustrating.
In the end I think it all payed off as it turns equally both ways, turns much sharper then it did with the 9" ram a win - win


It will get full tested later this week at Fordyce trail, hopefully all goes well

May want to relocate (rotate) your outer tie rod clamp so it won't drag / hit on the lower control arm. Looks like it might from the pic, but can't tell for sure.

 

[Broski]

May want to relocate (rotate) your outer tie rod clamp so it won't drag / hit on the lower control arm. Looks like it might from the pic, but can't tell for sure.

First picture post #1104 is all dialed in.
Funny thing is they don't reach the control arms

 

[Broski]

Just about ready
Fordyce here we come it’s going to be epic trip!!

 

[aztoyman]

Have a great trip! Don't forget we like videos.

 

[baldilocks]

I need to study your packing skills. And the big spare is in there too.
Was the Delta attic rack worth the money spent? What do you put up there?

 

[Broski]

I need to study your packing skills. And the big spare is in there too.
Was the Delta attic rack worth the money spent? What do you put up there?

I really like the @Delta VS attic rack and think it was worth it.
But it was in stock ready to ship when I bought it.
If I had to pay in full and wait for it to be built or worse wait tell there was enough orders for another run there no way I would have bought it. I’m old school that way !!

I keep light weight stuff up there that I leave there all the time.
a change of clothes, shorts a extra coat, small tarp to throw on the ground to do trail repairs, a small cutting board kit with knives to make lunch with out having to pull out my kitchen box. Extra trash bags
Basically things that I want in the truck all the time but don’t want in the way.

 

[Delta VS]

I really like the @Delta VS attic rack and think it was worth it.
But it was in stock ready to ship when I bought it.
If I had to pay in full and wait for it to be built or worse wait tell there was enough orders for another run there no way I would have bought it. I’m old school that way !!

I keep light weight stuff up there that I leave there all the time.
a change of clothes, shorts a extra coat, small tarp to throw on the ground to do trail repairs, a small cutting board kit with knives to make lunch with out having to pull out my kitchen box. Extra trash bags
Basically things that I want in the truck all the time but don’t want in the way.

almost always in stock, like everything except radius arms, but the robot is close to having radius arms in stock all the time along with new powdercoat shop.

 

[Broski]

At the staging area
Will hit the trail in the morning

 

[Broski]

Will I have had many good trip with zero problems/breakage and if you follow this tread you know I’m not easy on the 80.
We weren’t a few hours into the trail and I got diff hung, wasn’t even a very bad spot in the trail but I could not go forward or backwards so I got on the radio and asked the guys ahead to hold up.
My passenger got out and while I tried to free the rig he said the front locker is not on
I say yes it is.
He says will only one tire is spinning
The locker light is on solid so I try some more and I lose power to the other front tire
So we hook the winch up and I winch out
it’s getting late in the day so my good friend Kevin pulls me through the hard spots tell we find a good place to camp and try to figure out what broke.
Drive shaft is spinning but no power to either front tire.
Really weird I wasn’t even beating on it no noise and the there’s no noise when driving or being pulled.
We just set up camp and made dinner and had a few cold beverages
This morning I get to figure out the best way to get back out of here with a pounding head.
I will Be pulling the front drive shaft and drive flange’s to minimize any more damage.
Really happy to have good friends to help me get it off the trail !!!
Bottom of winch hill one and miles to get out

 

[baldilocks]

Sorry to read about your mechanical problem Richard. You guys got this handled I’m sure.

 

[80t0ylc]

Will I have had many good trip with zero problems/breakage and if you follow this tread you know I’m not easy on the 80.
We weren’t a few hours into the trail and I got diff hung, wasn’t even a very bad spot in the trail but I could not go forward or backwards so I got on the radio and asked the guys ahead to hold up.
My passenger got out and while I tried to free the rig he said the front locker is not on
I say yes it is.
He says will only one tire is spinning
The locker light is on solid so I try some more and I lose power to the other front tire
So we hook the winch up and I winch out
it’s getting late in the day so my good friend Kevin pulls me through the hard spots tell we find a good place to camp and try to figure out what broke.
Drive shaft is spinning but no power to either front tire.
Really weird I wasn’t even beating on it no noise and the there’s no noise when driving or being pulled.
We just set up camp and made dinner and had a few cold beverages
This morning I get to figure out the best way to get back out of here with a pounding head.
I will Be pulling the front drive shaft and drive flange’s to minimize any more damage.
Really happy to have good friends to help me get it off the trail !!!
Bottom of winch hill one and miles to get out

Just a guess, but diff housing trauma messed with pinion to ring gear adjustment. Hopefully nothing broke, but with no noise and no drive, what else could it be, unless maybe a sheared pin. Good luck with trouble shooting!