Bolt on turbo kit (17 Viewers)

[SteelHunterFJ80]

A/W x 5

 

[Heckraiser]

I agree that AW will be more suitable to more people (especially people who don't like cutting up their cruiser or people with dual batteries), so i think AW should be offered with the kit, if an intercooler is going to be part of the deal. I'm just hoping it can be an optional add-on so I can cut my own path

If that doesn't work out for the builder, I would probably give AW a shot just to support the vendor and chuck it later if my pump goes out or I spring a leak

BTW: I was planning on using an IC of this approximate shape between the frame rails (and partly above) with both charge pipes entering the passenger side rather than crossing over to the drivers side. Would not work with dual batteries without some real creativity.

 

[2KCruiser]

and I thought my 6 yr old was impatient
I you Ryan

 

[ThomasMore66]

This entire thing has been kinda fast-tracked since inception. Now it feels close.

 

[midfat]

I agree with @scottryana that the demand probably isn't there to get CARB certified- $18K and 6+ months. That sounds like at the very least adding $1K to every kit they sell just to please The Peoples Republic of California. Looking at it from strictly a cost perspective, making it easy to remove for CARB inspection makes more sense. I understand it would be a pain to have to remove and reinstall, but that may be the price you have to pay if you want this kit and live under the rule of Jerry Brown and all the other greenies in Cali. I certainly don't want to pay for it.

I also agree with keeping the kit as simple and complete as possible (with intercooler). I personally want a bolt on kit (as the thread title states) to keep things simple for my install. I know it was discussed a while back that the intercooler may be an add on and I think that could be a good idea if there are guys out there that want to design their own intercooler or put it in a location other than where this kit's intercooler will be designed to go. I assume it will be a very small percentage of the buyers for this kit that would design their own intercooler though- from the responses I read early on anyhow. It seems most interested parties want a complete kit. Unfortunately, it also doesn't make sense from a manufacturing perspective to offer the kit with the option of with or without the intercooler. If I was manufacturing it I wouldn't want to try to guess how many people are or aren't going to want an intercooler and then try to stock the appropriate number of units. Chances are you would get stuck with some unsold intercoolers and be stuck with them forever. With that being said, maybe they could accommodate Heckraiser and others in the initial run that don't want an intercooler by selling them the turbo kit without the intercooler and then selling only complete kits thereafter. Just a thought.

Just a quick reality check here. IF the decision is made to pursue CARB cert, it will be as much for the buyer as it is the seller. Regardless of where you live, IF you bolt this kit on your truck and drive it on a federal road, you have knowingly tampered with the emissions system of your vehicle. That’s against the law. Period. States like CA and AZ have visual tests and/or SMOG tests, so it’s much harder to “get away with it.” For all the states that don’t have such testing in place, you’re still breaking the law. Remember, EPA has federal justification over ALL 50 states.

My point to all this is that there’s real liability to consider. And that liability is even greater for the manafacturer than it is the consumer. You can get in trouble for using drugs. You can get life for distributing.

We all love our cars. We all feel the burn of emissions regulation. But we also have to understand that it ain’t the 1960’s anymore. For us to have these toys, we need to PARTNER with the innovative manufacturers that willing to invest in designing, producing and distributing these awesome parts. We can’t ask them to break the law so it’ll be cheaper and more convenient for us. That just ain’t fair.

As for the IC, I say let the buyer deal with it. Too many variables. Make a system that hits the foundational application across the broadest range of users.

 

[2KCruiser]

Just a quick reality check here. IF the decision is made to pursue CARB cert, it will be as much for the buyer as it is the seller. Regardless of where you live, IF you bolt this kit on your truck and drive it on a federal road, you have knowingly tampered with the emissions system of your vehicle. That’s against the law. Period. States like CA and AZ have visual tests and/or SMOG tests, so it’s much harder to “get away with it.” For all the states that don’t have such testing in place, you’re still breaking the law. Remember, EPA has federal justification over ALL 50 states.

My point to all this is that there’s real liability to consider. And that liability is even greater for the manafacturer than it is the consumer. You can get in trouble for using drugs. You can get life for distributing.

We all love our cars. We all feel the burn of emissions regulation. But we also have to understand that it ain’t the 1960’s anymore. For us to have these toys, we need to PARTNER with the innovative manufacturers that willing to invest in designing, producing and distributing these awesome parts. We can’t ask them to break the law so it’ll be cheaper and more convenient for us. That just ain’t fair.

As for the IC, I say let the buyer deal with it. Too many variables. Make a system that hits the foundational application across the broadest range of users.

BOOOOO! BOOOOO!
Lol, sorry, you do make a valid point but I do believe most do comprehend the scope of what a turbo entails when it comes to legality.
My daily business is based on car modification, and being in CA of all places, it just sucks. Legally I shouldn't modify my cars or guns

 

[Heckraiser]

Just a quick reality check here. IF the decision is made to pursue CARB cert, it will be as much for the buyer as it is the seller. Regardless of where you live, IF you bolt this kit on your truck and drive it on a federal road, you have knowingly tampered with the emissions system of your vehicle. That’s against the law. Period. States like CA and AZ have visual tests and/or SMOG tests, so it’s much harder to “get away with it.” For all the states that don’t have such testing in place, you’re still breaking the law. Remember, EPA has federal justification over ALL 50 states.

My point to all this is that there’s real liability to consider. And that liability is even greater for the manafacturer than it is the consumer. You can get in trouble for using drugs. You can get life for distributing.

We all love our cars. We all feel the burn of emissions regulation. But we also have to understand that it ain’t the 1960’s anymore. For us to have these toys, we need to PARTNER with the innovative manufacturers that willing to invest in designing, producing and distributing these awesome parts. We can’t ask them to break the law so it’ll be cheaper and more convenient for us. That just ain’t fair.

As for the IC, I say let the buyer deal with it. Too many variables. Make a system that hits the foundational application across the broadest range of users.

CARB is a revenue generator. If all they were actually concerned with is air quality, they would do a tailpipe sniffer test and be done with it.

 

[bryson]

Just a quick reality check here. IF the decision is made to pursue CARB cert, it will be as much for the buyer as it is the seller. Regardless of where you live, IF you bolt this kit on your truck and drive it on a federal road, you have knowingly tampered with the emissions system of your vehicle. That’s against the law. Period. States like CA and AZ have visual tests and/or SMOG tests, so it’s much harder to “get away with it.” For all the states that don’t have such testing in place, you’re still breaking the law. Remember, EPA has federal justification over ALL 50 states.

My point to all this is that there’s real liability to consider. And that liability is even greater for the manafacturer than it is the consumer. You can get in trouble for using drugs. You can get life for distributing.

We all love our cars. We all feel the burn of emissions regulation. But we also have to understand that it ain’t the 1960’s anymore. For us to have these toys, we need to PARTNER with the innovative manufacturers that willing to invest in designing, producing and distributing these awesome parts. We can’t ask them to break the law so it’ll be cheaper and more convenient for us. That just ain’t fair.

As for the IC, I say let the buyer deal with it. Too many variables. Make a system that hits the foundational application across the broadest range of users.

Not arguing here, but I need some clarification. The CARB cert is for CA only, right (and NY maybe???) The EPA emissions regs and CARB regs are not the same as far as I'm aware. Is this incorrect? I understand that if I run a non-CARB system in CA I'm liable, but outside of Cali shouldn't it be kosher?

Also, there aren't any official emissions systems here that are being tampered with with this system, so, as long as it passes the standard OBDII testing (for Utah at least) wouldn't it pass and be 100% legal?

 

[midfat]

Not arguing here, but I need some clarification. The CARB cert is for CA only, right (and NY maybe???) The EPA emissions regs and CARB regs are not the same as far as I'm aware. Is this incorrect? I understand that if I run a non-CARB system in CA I'm liable, but outside of Cali shouldn't it be kosher?

Also, there aren't any official emissions systems here that are being tampered with with this system, so, as long as it passes the standard OBDII testing (for Utah at least) wouldn't it pass and be 100% legal?

I am by no means an expert, but here’s what I do know...

EPA sets federal emissions standards for all 50 states. Your vehicle emissions system must comply with national standards. However, CARB was formed BEFORE the EPA and, thusly, has the unique ability to set individual standards for the state of California. Because CARB standards are uniformly more stringent than EPA, CA residents by default meet the standard in all 50 states. But all 50 states do not meet the CA standard. This is where the notorious term “49 state legal” comes from.

Just because there isn’t an inspection process in place in your state does not releive you of the law. It just means you likely won’t be caught breaking the law.

Case in point is VW dieselgate. While CARB discovered the cheating, EPA pursued VW for violation of the US Clean Air Act with liability on ALL vehicles sold in ALL 50 states.

You tamper with your emission in the depths of West Virginia, your are, technically speaking, still violating the law.

 

[scottryana]

This is no different than the federal government not allowing marijuana but state governments allowing it. Yes it is feasible that a federal law enforcement officer could stand outside every pot shop in Colorado, Washington, California, etc and bust people walking out but the federal government has given states the ability to govern themselves. And as far as I know the only state requiring CARB aftermarket parts is California.

 

[ThomasMore66]

And again, what emission stuff has been tampered with?

 

[midfat]

Hey. I am in no way saying this shouldn’t be done. I’m a HUGE fan. I’m just trying to clarify some of the misconceptions of emissions certification vs not emissions certification. The law is the law.

But more than that, as a consumer, I’d rather spend my money on a legal product, and I’d be willing to spend a premium for that benefit.

I respect the money that has been invested in this project and I’d like to see it succeed. A CARB EO would be a powerful tool to open the market opportunity. It also eliminates a potentially catastrophic level of liability for the manufacturer - regardless of which state it comes from.

 

[Mudder]

All they have to do is say that this part is for use on uncontrolled emmsion engines or race engines to relieve them of all legal liability of someone getting caught with their stuff. It's the same thing Holley states with about everything you buy from them.

 

[iptman]

Hey. I am in no way saying this shouldn’t be done. I’m a HUGE fan. I’m just trying to clarify some of the misconceptions of emissions certification vs not emissions certification. The law is the law.

But more than that, as a consumer, I’d rather spend my money on a legal product, and I’d be willing to spend a premium for that benefit.

I respect the money that has been invested in this project and I’d like to see it succeed. A CARB EO would be a powerful tool to open the market opportunity. It also eliminates a potentially catastrophic level of liability for the manufacturer - regardless of which state it comes from.

But the addition of this turbo doesn't remove any of the factory emissions controls. If an emissions level is exceeded a MIL will light but supposing none are exceeded then no problem except in California with their visual inspection. This is not a Federal issue.

 

[slow95z]

what about 25+ year old rule? i know here i have no testing but in every place i can think of in GA that does do testing 25 years and you dont get smog tested. would allow me to boost my 93 and get away with whatever i wanted

 

[iptman]

That's irrelevant from a legality standpoint. It's still illegal to intentionally disable any emissions control system in a vehicle regardless of age.

 

[bryson]

<snip>

You tamper with your emission in the depths of West Virginia, your are, technically speaking, still violating the law.

That's irrelevant from a legality standpoint. It's still illegal to intentionally disable any emissions control system in a vehicle regardless of age.

So... What emissions equipment has been tampered with??? I understand the legal issues of emissions tampering, but we're not doing that here, are we?

As far as I can tell, since no emissions equipment is being removed/disabled/tampered with, this kit should still be legal in every state except CA without any certs - as long as the truck still passes the emissions inspection. Even the visual inspection should be shibby as long as you still have cats/O2/EGR. It isn't illegal to turbo/SC an engine. Am I wrong?

 

[Heckraiser]

^^^ Correct. Only California (maybe NY?) requires CARB certification for mods. Federal Law (and most states with inspection) only require that you don't remove/disable any emissions hardware and are OBD ready with no codes. That's my understanding anyway.

 

[dallen341]

So... What emissions equipment has been tampered with??? I understand the legal issues of emissions tampering, but we're not doing that here, are we?

As far as I can tell, since no emissions equipment is being removed/disabled/tampered with, this kit should still be legal in every state except CA without any certs - as long as the truck still passes the emissions inspection. Even the visual inspection should be shibby as long as you still have cats/O2/EGR. It isn't illegal to turbo/SC an engine. Am I wrong?

Exhaust manifold is part of the emissions scheme. Headers for instance require the CARB OE cert here in California.

 

[Heckraiser]

The stock exhaust manifolds are retained in this kit (for EGR function). The point is, it won't work in CA without CARB certification, it will work anywhere that doesn't require CARB certification. And that's pretty much the end of the conversation.