No harm to foul. Like I said, the dialog is good and I’ve made no final decisions but I do want to make sure we keep the conversation relative.
Bolt on turbo kit
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No harm to foul. Like I said, the dialog is good and I’ve made no final decisions but I do want to make sure we keep the conversation relative.
Me too. I'd love to see what it could do with an air to air I/C though.
So all this interesting discussion about A2A versus A2W systems begs another design question: why can’t you run a fan on an A2A system? Mount the heat exchanger away from in front of the radiator with a fan?
Then it goes back to something similar to the CX Racing design of being out in front mounted between the frame rails.
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The biggest problem is that air doesn't pull heat as well as water does so you need more surface area. So the A/A intercoolers are much bigger than the A/W heat exchangers. You could do it, but you would need something like (2) 12-14" fans to cover the whole intercooler.
Now that we'veNo harm to foul. Like I said, the dialog is good and I’ve made no final decisions but I do want to make sure we keep the conversation relative.
with the intercooler discussion, would this be the appropriate time to propose Inconel? 
Solution: Radiator, AC Rad, I/C front stacked with a 4-6,000 cfm Flex-a-lite puller on the back side, ditch the factory fan.
Your thoughts...Keep Happy Friday Day Everyone
Your thoughts...Keep
Happy Friday Day Everyone
the apple and orange balance that is missing here is the core "time and area" on the charge air side. If the air goes thru too quickly over too small a surface area it will not have a chance to reject heat regardless of what fluid (air or liquid) is on the other side.
What I like most about A to W is that the volume of water acts as an energy sink letting you run a smaller front cooler for the water. if you ran on boost constant for a longer period of time then the water temp would creep up and the radiator could not keep up (low duty cycle). but if you are on and off boost like I expect I will be then its ok. maybe this is why diesels run A to A or like a Ford 6.7L an A to coolant for constant duty.
what I'm suspect of is the appropriate sizing of the A to W core. great its small and compact but that doesn't give the charge are much of a chance to cool off.
I have a friend at Garrett. He is supposed to be sending me a prototype upgraded IC for my Raptor (A to A). I should pick his brain!
I'm in favor of air to water for this app. mostly because of ducting to the front for off road bumpers and winches.
what I'm suspect of is the appropriate sizing of the A to W core. great its small and compact but that doesn't give the charge are much of a chance to cool off.
I have a friend at Garrett. He is supposed to be sending me a prototype upgraded IC for my Raptor (A to A). I should pick his brain!
I'm in favor of air to water for this app. mostly because of ducting to the front for off road bumpers and winches.
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I’ve never had any complaints about the A/A on the front of mine until the last two summers since this thread started 
. The A/C has kicked off on several occasions and the IAT registered on the stock sensor is in excess of 160F at times. I think I’m due for a new radiator at least to try and battle this, but it seems like heat soak could be to blame. First time was sitting in interstate traffic coming back to Denver from Wyoming on a 100F day. Lately sitting in the carpool line at school on 90F days has kicked off the A/C a couple times. The other times were when we were pulling a 1500# camper on a 103F day here in Denver and even at speed coolant temps were 212-220+ even though IAT was down to 140ish IIRC. Yeah I’m playing Russian roulette with my head gasket.
. The A/C has kicked off on several occasions and the IAT registered on the stock sensor is in excess of 160F at times. I think I’m due for a new radiator at least to try and battle this, but it seems like heat soak could be to blame. First time was sitting in interstate traffic coming back to Denver from Wyoming on a 100F day. Lately sitting in the carpool line at school on 90F days has kicked off the A/C a couple times. The other times were when we were pulling a 1500# camper on a 103F day here in Denver and even at speed coolant temps were 212-220+ even though IAT was down to 140ish IIRC. Yeah I’m playing Russian roulette with my head gasket.
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I hope this is something people read. This is the exact situation I would like to avoid by going with A/W, you are using a much smaller heat exchanger blocking much less of the radiator and you are adding a pusher fan. Once you add in the fact some people cut lights into their grills, or add winches that stick back into that area it makes it even more difficult to have a one-size fits all A/A.
Hell if the whole point was to do this cheap I would say slap a cheap A/A up front they only cost maybe $300 and Bam we are done, but the point for me has always been to make it the best, most well thought out bundle for 90% of 80 users. There will be 10% that have different needs or wants but the plan was to give almost everyone something that is a big addition to their 80.
I have stepped out of this project for the most part, but I know Joey is going to put together a great setup and really I suppose I have no dog in this fight. lol. I put together the system I wanted and I can just watch and let the masses decide what it really is that they want.
Hell if the whole point was to do this cheap I would say slap a cheap A/A up front they only cost maybe $300 and Bam we are done, but the point for me has always been to make it the best, most well thought out bundle for 90% of 80 users. There will be 10% that have different needs or wants but the plan was to give almost everyone something that is a big addition to their 80.
I have stepped out of this project for the most part, but I know Joey is going to put together a great setup and really I suppose I have no dog in this fight. lol. I put together the system I wanted and I can just watch and let the masses decide what it really is that they want.
I’ve never had any complaints about the A/A on the front of mine until the last two summers since this thread started
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Hahaha, I am the 10%, which is why I suggest "do whatever works for the majority" to Joey, hoping this project is worth his while. I have a layout in mind for a A/A setup that does not block one inch of the radiator, but it will require a "high airflow" bumper and receiver winch, both are concessions I'm sure I'm the only MUDder willing to accept. 
Remember, last time I cut up the only pristine hood my truck will ever see for no good reason 
Remember, last time I cut up the only pristine hood my truck will ever see for no good reason
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Yeah, my next one will be A/A with a "high airflow" bumper too, but also falls in that 10% and pretty terrible clearance for any kind of offroading.
I have room for about a 25"x11-12"x4-4.5" A/A in the bumper area.
I have room for about a 25"x11-12"x4-4.5" A/A in the bumper area.
Hahaha, I am the 10%, which is why I suggest "do whatever works for the majority" to Joey, hoping this project is worth his while. I have a layout in mind for a A/A setup that does not block one inch of the radiator, but it will require a "high airflow" bumper and receiver winch, both are concessions I'm sure I'm the only MUDder willing to accept.
Well, this is just unacceptable! There's a price of admission here, you know.
Well, this is just unacceptable! There's a price of admission here, you know.
I’ve had to go back and speed read to get caught up because I’ve been busy at work!
Super excited still about all of this and looking forward to the results. Being patient for a quality kit is ok with me. Continued thanks for all of the R & D!
I’m not as savvy with all the workings of IC but I trust those professionals on here and their recommendations. If it helps alieviate unnecessary heat from my motor to protect it during those hot slow crawls then I’m game to cut a little.
I have to swap out my motor etc. anyways. I’m drivin’ a 92’! Hoping to do a nice build before I swap.
Forgive me as I'm not all caught up on this thread. And I may be ahead of myself, but I do like to plan out my build way in advance. If all goes well I have the next 12-16 months planned out. Among that is going turbo. I've been tossed between w/a and a/a intercoolers as well as front or top mount.
The constant in either of the above options will be an aftermarket intake manifold, either Hypertune, or the new Plazmaman, so this free's up a lot of space for top mount.
Benefits of top mount and aftermarket intake plenum will be shortest amount of piping. Another benefit is I don't have to worry about restrictions up front with winch, lighting, getting clogged with mud, debris, etc. I have a spare bonnet from my BH5 Subaru Legacy that I will fab the hood scoop into the land cruiser bonnet for airflow. May even try to source a 79 series bonnet on the cheap if possible, but have no reservations against using the BH5 bonnet scoop, should be large enough for my power goals and not constantly being on boost.
Now the front mount option, I've had a custom hybrid bumper fabricated recently. Has some cutouts in the center plate section for airflow, and can also build ducts that grab air from the outer tubular wing section(lots of airflow from the open design) and force it to the fmic. Piping will still be relatively short with the aftermaket intake plenum since it doesn't have to route back over and above the engine.
If I've missed anything, feel free to play devil's advocate. Open to discussion...
Also I'm building the power/drivetrain a bit backwards and building in stages, the turbo will be the third and final stage. First will be standalone ecu and trans swap.
The constant in either of the above options will be an aftermarket intake manifold, either Hypertune, or the new Plazmaman, so this free's up a lot of space for top mount.
Benefits of top mount and aftermarket intake plenum will be shortest amount of piping. Another benefit is I don't have to worry about restrictions up front with winch, lighting, getting clogged with mud, debris, etc. I have a spare bonnet from my BH5 Subaru Legacy that I will fab the hood scoop into the land cruiser bonnet for airflow. May even try to source a 79 series bonnet on the cheap if possible, but have no reservations against using the BH5 bonnet scoop, should be large enough for my power goals and not constantly being on boost.
Now the front mount option, I've had a custom hybrid bumper fabricated recently. Has some cutouts in the center plate section for airflow, and can also build ducts that grab air from the outer tubular wing section(lots of airflow from the open design) and force it to the fmic. Piping will still be relatively short with the aftermaket intake plenum since it doesn't have to route back over and above the engine.
If I've missed anything, feel free to play devil's advocate. Open to discussion...
Also I'm building the power/drivetrain a bit backwards and building in stages, the turbo will be the third and final stage. First will be standalone ecu and trans swap.
If you do a top mount A/A with a hood scoop, you need to make sure there is some ducting and/or weather stripping that seals the scoop to the intercooler face when the hood is closed, otherwise a lot of the air will just go around the intercooler. It will also get a lot of heat from the exhaust and turbo in this location, so heat soak at lower speeds will be worse. Looking at the bumper in you avatar picture, if there was a good way to turn those large areas between the tubes into giant ducts, that would be a lot of air! Not sure how you could efficiently route it past the frame rails though.
Yeah, my next one will be A/A with a "high airflow" bumper too, but also falls in that 10% and pretty terrible clearance for any kind of offroading.
I have room for about a 25"x11-12"x4-4.5" A/A in the bumper area.
On the Raptor the stock IC is mounted low between the frame rails and all the air for it comes thru the bumper
we make an aftermarket bumper that actually increases the frontal area and ducts more air to the stock IC. we were able to increase ground clearance a little, but not much without moving IC (and cutting frame horn).
many bumpers on the market (and any with winch option) require putting an aftermarket IC up in the grill (still AtoA). they claim that the IC is higher capacity as well (but im suspect). this works on newer vehicles because there is a ton of room in the grill to the radiator for newer regulations involving impact with pedestrians.
This is the trade off!
I would not be willing to loose ground clearance or move winches on my 80.
I immediately scratched anything from CX Racing off the list for this reason.