"best" 2F

[Texican]

Resurrection for a Question:
Would machining those holes into a '77 2F myself be possible/advisable? Assuming, of course, that I have the capabilities to do so. Admittedly a big assumption.

I have drilled a tapped lots of holes in cast, probably the easiest of all to do, that said, I would not go to the trouble, you either have to rig a tension-er or run the FJ60 style belt setup with a smog, and there are better options using a better (Saginaw) pump....hell I have pulled this setup off of 4 FJ60's to put Saginaw on......

 

[Brandon Iron]

Yes, they changed the area a bit (stolen from TJ's thread):

Drilling holes in cast iron, I've heard, is difficult without cracking it. I've heard it has been done for the exact reason of fitting a FJ60 power steering pump. There are tapped holes in the block from the factory, so I assume Toyota drilled and tapped the cast iron, so I'm sure it could be done. I don't know what's behind that location in the block though; if it's just solid cast iron all the way to the cylinder wall or what.

Ahhhh, just what I was looking for. Thank you.

As Texican notes below though, cast iron is one of the most pleasurable materials to machine (including drilling and tapping) due to its micro-crystalline structure, which is a matrix of iron and carbon nodules that act as an inherent lubricant for the cutting process. It doesn't look as though Toyota built it up much. I think adding those holes would be relatively simple and risk-free.

I have drilled a tapped lots of holes in cast, probably the easiest of all to do, that said, I would not go to the trouble, you either have to rig a tension-er or run the FJ60 style belt setup with a smog, and there are better options using a better (Saginaw) pump....**** I have pulled this setup off of 4 FJ60's to put Saginaw on......

That's the setup I have, an FJ60, with all that stuff, so it would be a direct drop-in. That said, my pump has started to groan and has been leaking for some time. Your solution sounds interesting. Have you done a thread on it?

 

[Texican]

That's the setup I have, an FJ60, with all that stuff, so it would be a direct drop-in. That said, my pump has started to groan and has been leaking for some time. Your solution sounds interesting. Have you done a thread on it?

No I thought I had but can't find one, I have used the JT outfitters bracket, and Georg's, either work fine,

 

[PabloCruise]

Resurrection for a Question:

Earlier 2Fs (pre '81) do not have the drilled and tapped holes for mounting the PS pump. When Toyota added this feature, did they change that area of the casting at all, by adding material, bosses, flats, etc?

Would machining those holes into a '77 2F myself be possible/advisable? Assuming, of course, that I have the capabilities to do so. Admittedly a big assumption.

Not sure if Matt answered your question of "when did Toyota add"

1979 and later 2F blocks are tapped for PS pump...

I thought about drilling and tapping my '78 block. Locating the holes would be very important! Measure twice, cut once...

 

[Poser]

I do not know why anyone would even consider drilling and tapping the block for the OEM power steering bracket.

The mounting pad is not even the same shape:

Where are you going to put the stud that secures the bracket on the front side?

 

[Texican]

I do not know why anyone would even consider drilling and tapping the block for the OEM power steering bracket.

Ain't that kinda what I said?
Only I waz nicer, we've reversed roles.

 

[Brandon Iron]

I do not know why anyone would even consider drilling and tapping the block for the OEM power steering bracket.

Well the reason I asked the qestion, is that 1) I need a power steering pump; 2) the vehicle must retain its CA smog cert so the air pump must stay where it is, and I'm keeping the A/C; 3) I have a perfectly fine-running '77 2F in my machine shop and 4) I've not seen the mounts yet that Texican mentions for the Saginaw pump but whatever they bolt to, they cant replace the air pump, alternator, or compressor. I wouldn[t have asked if I weren't all ears to persons offering solutions.

What was yours, by the way?

 

[Texican]

Well the reason I asked the qestion, is that 1) I need a power steering pump; 2) the vehicle must retain its CA smog cert so the air pump must stay where it is, and I'm keeping the A/C; 3) I have a perfectly fine-running '77 2F in my machine shop and 4) I've not seen the mounts yet that Texican mentions for the Saginaw pump but whatever they bolt to, they cant replace the air pump, alternator, or compressor. I wouldn[t have asked if I weren't all ears to persons offering solutions.

What was yours, by the way?

I thought everything over 25 yrs old was exempt, what year are we talking here anyway?

Go to JT Outfitters and look at their PS mount, you could utilize the smog pump with it......

 

[CruiserStuff]

I thought everything over 25 yrs old was exempt, what year are we talking here anyway?

In Kalifornia, the rolling 25 year thing ended in 1975. '76 and newer get to fight to beat the smog nazis still......

 

[Texican]

In Kalifornia, the rolling 25 year thing ended in 1975. '76 and newer get to fight to beat the smog nazis still......

I would be buying a junker older one and re badging it.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I would be buying a junker older one and re badging it.

In California, this is by far, the best method.

It can even be legal if you use the older frame.


Regarding the question at hand, there is no reason at all to consider drilling and threading an older block to accept the factory power steering. Factory power steering isn't that great and if you are determined to use a 77 block, just use Saginaw steering which is better and cheaper. The brackets work fine with existing smog pumps and their belts to maintain smog compliance.

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

Well the reason I asked the qestion, is that 1) I need a power steering pump; 2) the vehicle must retain its CA smog cert so the air pump must stay where it is, and I'm keeping the A/C; 3) I have a perfectly fine-running '77 2F in my machine shop and 4) I've not seen the mounts yet that Texican mentions for the Saginaw pump but whatever they bolt to, they cant replace the air pump, alternator, or compressor. I wouldn[t have asked if I weren't all ears to persons offering solutions.

What was yours, by the way?

Go find Georgs PS pump bracket in the vendors forum. It bolts under the caps of the first 2 DS cylinder head bolts. Should allow you to keep your air pimp and alt and comp where they're at now. Basically places the pump right in the stock location, or whatever would have been the stock spot...Maybe search "Bill Dorey Saginaw Mounts"HTH

 

[Living in the Past]

Curious what you would consider high mileage on a 2F? I don't have any post 7/80 2Fs but a bunch of earlier 2Fs. Was thinking I would be better off with the later ones but after reading about the heads cracking and living in AZ guessing earlier is better.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Curious what you would consider high mileage on a 2F? I don't have any post 7/80 2Fs but a bunch of earlier 2Fs. Was thinking I would be better off with the later ones but after reading about the heads cracking and living in AZ guessing earlier is better.

If you are asking about the head cracking issue, it doesn't seem to be just mileage. they have shown cracking with only 100K on a 1986 2F. And a 200K 1982 2F. and a slew of others I can't remember now. It really seems to be more of an age issue. It's like they hit their expiration date at 25-30 years.

This is odd to me, because I've always bought into the idea that if building a durable engine is the goal, use the oldest parts possible. A block or crank or head that is 20 years old and has 200K miles on it and hasn't cracked yet, is never going to crack. Machine the parts straight and they should be perfect forever, because they are totally stress relieved & happy.

FWIW, I consider hi miles on a78-earlier 2F to be somewhere above 100K. They don't last as long as the 79-later engines, due to their lack of oil cooler, poor carburetor & emision calibration, non-hardened rocker shafts, heavy valve gear, etc...

The 81-later engines seem to be quite capable of running past 200K with any kind of maintenance.

 

[Mace]

Might be a good point to bring up in the "Best 2F" thread.

 

[Living in the Past]

If you are asking about the head cracking issue, it doesn't seem to be just mileage. they have shown cracking with only 100K on a 1986 2F. And a 200K 1982 2F. and a slew of others I can't remember now. It really seems to be more of an age issue. It's like they hit their expiration date at 25-30 years.

This is odd to me, because I've always bought into the idea that if building a durable engine is the goal, use the oldest parts possible. A block or crank or head that is 20 years old and has 200K miles on it and hasn't cracked yet, is never going to crack. Machine the parts straight and they should be perfect forever, because they are totally stress relieved & happy.

FWIW, I consider hi miles on a78-earlier 2F to be somewhere above 100K. They don't last as long as the 79-later engines, due to their lack of oil cooler, poor carburetor & emision calibration, non-hardened rocker shafts, heavy valve gear, etc...

The 81-later engines seem to be quite capable of running past 200K with any kind of maintenance.

I find this very disappointing. If the later 2F head is expected to last 25 to 30 years. 1981 to 1987 all the later 2f are already in this range. The idea of paying $900 for a new stripped head in a rebuild doesn't fit into most idea of a hobby vehicle. In my case it's not just one but many vehicles.

Curious your option of the life of the early 2F based on use? My big experience is with a 67 production F145. It had already been poorly rebuild (cotter pins on the castle nuts used on rod caps are important) when I bought the cruiser in 74. Using it on the highway in the 3K RPM plus range took it's toll. Keeping it below 1.8K RPM I think it will last for ever. Do you think RPM is a big factor in how long one of these inline six tractor motors will last? Compared to the V8 these hold almost double the oil and heaveir mass to deal with the heat.

It's been my personal experience (option) finding a good early 2F is easier then finding one of the later ones. It was common for a cruiser just a couple years old or less in the mid seventies to replaced by a V8. Some of these 2Fs found their way into early cruisers. In alot of cases these were because of their age second vehicles used for hunting and fishing not a DD. Have bought four of these cruisers and all have very nice running 2Fs. One a 71 with a 78 2F I parted out shortly after buying but the compression was excellent. The other three were owned by elderly men who rarely used them. In cases two weren't even registered in the nineties. The 81 and later 2Fs more than likely came from a heavier 60 series. In most cases a 60 owner was different than a 40 owner. More likely to take the cruiser on vaction down the highway rather than up into the hills camping. Less likely to replace the 2F with a V8. Most the 60 series with a V8 didn't happen until many years later. Plus most all 60 series have A/C which adds heat and restriction to the air going thru the radiator. If any of this is a factor in why the later 2Fs have the head failures

 

[Delancy]

Mace,
If you had to pick one 2F to build, the 85-end models are best. They have all the upgrades of the 81-85, plus in 85 they got:

-the 3F cylinder head, which gives the option of running the 3F manifolds
-the 3F head gasket with better coolant flow direction
-screw in oil galley plugs (I really like this)
-slight improvement w/ the 3piece thrust bearing
-torx screws in timing plate(which should be added to any engine).

Is it possible to differentiate the +85 head from previous years?

The 3F cylinder head is 11101-61050.

















Are you saying that the +85 61040 is the same as?

 

[FJ40Jim]

61050 is the later 3F head (88-newer). Note that it has extra meat above the intake to allow machining the injector reliefs for EFI which became available in 88. Date code is 8 1 29 or 1988 Jan. 29th.


The late2F/early3F head is differentiated from the older 2F head by having the additional fasteners and dowel pins for the 3F manifolds.

 

[Delancy]

Note that it has extra meat above the intake to allow machining the injector reliefs

Part of the confusion surrounding, considering pics of both, but....

early3F head

the first I'd recognized the nomenclature "early 3F head", so clears it up.

Was under the impression that the variations of the later 2F/early 3F also benefitted with:

In 85 they got:

-the 3F cylinder head, which gives the option of running the 3F manifolds
-the 3F head gasket with better coolant flow direction
-screw in oil galley plugs (I really like this)
-slight improvement w/ the 3piece thrust bearing
-torx screws in timing plate(which should be added to any engine).

Some irrelevant to the late 2F/early 3F head, specifically, if the head is all that's in question and not the 2F in it's entirety, but best that I can determine and the general consensus is, the late 2F/early 3F head allows utilization of every attachment point afforded by the 3F manifold.

Right?

 

[FJ40Jim]

Yessir.