Builds Benjamin’s 3D Prints Build (8 Viewers)

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BenCC said:
Thanks. I have three key shells from you. You did great work.

My FDM printer:
Sindoh 3dwox 1
Makerbot Z18

My SLA printer:
Phrozen Shuffle

I was thinking the other day, if YotaMD could print the keyshell with tough engineering resin.
Click to expand...

I nearly bought a Form 2 to print in engineering resin. I ran test prints on the YotaMD shell and everything. The support connection points were a deal breaker, though. I can't deal with that level of flaw or rework. The Form 3 looks way better though... might have to try that out!
 
krice118 said:
I would definitely be in for a scanguage Mount with 1 or 2 switches as well up there.
Click to expand...

A quick mock-up. One Scangauge and two rocker switches can be fitted. But I need to print out a prototype to test the fit. The space behind the overhead console is actually very limited. I need to leave some space behind the rocker switches for the connected wires.
2019-11-06_16-25-32.jpg
 
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suprarx7nut said:
I nearly bought a Form 2 to print in engineering resin. I ran test prints on the YotaMD shell and everything. The support connection points were a deal breaker, though. I can't deal with that level of flaw or rework. The Form 3 looks way better though... might have to try that out!
Click to expand...

Smaller parts are way harder to make.

The support connection points? You can leave the points in the inside of the shell. And these points are very easy to sand off.
 
suprarx7nut said:
I nearly bought a Form 2 to print in engineering resin. I ran test prints on the YotaMD shell and everything. The support connection points were a deal breaker, though. I can't deal with that level of flaw or rework. The Form 3 looks way better though... might have to try that out!
Click to expand...
What printer do yo use for making the shells?
 
BenCC said:
What printer do yo use for making the shells?
Click to expand...
$250k+ HP Multi-Jet Fusion machines at a local engineering shop. I prototype with a Markforged Onyx Pro, but production parts for the keys are all on the enterprise-grade HP machines. Nothing beats the surface finish and reliability of those MJF machines for these sort of parts. Liquid resin can be good, but you still have support restrictions and support nibs to deal with. On the MJF machines, zero restrictions on overhangs, supports and feature details are clear and accurate down to a fraction of a mm. I could geek out all day on those, haha.
 
BenCC said:
Smaller parts are way harder to make.

The support connection points? You can leave the points in the inside of the shell. And these points are very easy to sand off.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm sure there's some tweaks that could make it bearable, especially with the Form 3. The support attachment improvements look significant. Still, problem is my current method has zero touch time. The parts arrive perfect. Every time. So any added time is a big detractor for me.

There's also UV concerns. Even the Formlabs consultants/applications engineers had concerns about my use case. The resins, by their very nature, continue to change over time. I want the key shells being as durable as possible and even the Formlabs sales reps suggested I'd need to do something extra to keep them lasting. They had a contract with a razor maker and even in a use case where it was never expected to see UV rays and had a relatively short life expectancy, they needed to apply a topcoat to seal the material.

I do love the resin stuff, though. I think it'd have some cool applications in automotive interior parts. I still might get a form 3 down the road. If I can prove that my Markforged printer was a worthy investment, I'll jump into the Form 3 as well.
 
suprarx7nut said:
Yeah, I'm sure there's some tweaks that could make it bearable, especially with the Form 3. The support attachment improvements look significant. Still, problem is my current method has zero touch time. The parts arrive perfect. Every time. So any added time is a big detractor for me.

There's also UV concerns. Even the Formlabs consultants/applications engineers had concerns about my use case. The resins, by their very nature, continue to change over time. I want the key shells being as durable as possible and even the Formlabs sales reps suggested I'd need to do something extra to keep them lasting. They had a contract with a razor maker and even in a use case where it was never expected to see UV rays and had a relatively short life expectancy, they needed to apply a topcoat to seal the material.

I do love the resin stuff, though. I think it'd have some cool applications in automotive interior parts. I still might get a form 3 down the road. If I can prove that my Markforged printer was a worthy investment, I'll jump into the Form 3 as well.
Click to expand...

I by no means have anywhere the knowledge you guys have on this, but I've often wondered after a prototype what are the drawbacks of injection molding. Sorry don't mean to hijack but since experts are here on the subject that crossed mind to ask.
 
savirc said:
I by no means have anywhere the knowledge you guys have on this, but I've often wondered after a prototype what are the drawbacks of injection molding. Sorry don't mean to hijack but since experts are here on the subject that crossed mind to ask.
Click to expand...
Injection molding is good for mass production. A metal mold has to be made. Everything begins with making the metal mold. It has very large overhead. But it is cheaper if large amount of parts are made. 3d prints are quick, so the name Fast Prototyping.
 
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BenCC said:
They only sell the trim with switches? That is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

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Kmonty66 said:
this includes the switch

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00-02 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER MASTER POWER WINDOW SWITCH WITH BEZEL P/N 84820-60100 | eBay

TOYOTA LAND CRUISER. 2001 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER 4.7L V8. BEZEL TRIM. 2000 - 2002 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER 4.7L V8 EFI 4D SUV. MASTER POWER WINDOW SWITCH. Window Switch. Head Lights. Tail Lights.
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Click to expand...
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savirc said:
I by no means have anywhere the knowledge you guys have on this, but I've often wondered after a prototype what are the drawbacks of injection molding. Sorry don't mean to hijack but since experts are here on the subject that crossed mind to ask.
Click to expand...

I'll expand a little here. @BenCC give the short answer, but I can't help myself because I get asked this often and this is a core part of my day job work history.

Injection Molding. To get tooling that lasts long enough to be worthwhile, you need metal tooling. Maybe aluminum, maybe steel. That's expensive. Really, really, really expensive. A small part with no slides (as simple as you can get) might be $5k for one tool for one part. Need to make a tiny change in the design? Boom, another $3-5k.

For my common 100 series shells, I'm on my ~12th revision give or take. In 3D printing, rev changes and multiple versions and updates are zero cost adder. If I were doing injection molds, I'd have to spend upwards of $40k for those tooling changes over the last two years for just one variety of one part. The comparative cost for 3D printing is $0.

With injection molding you save a lot per part if all goes well, but you have a large quantity to sell before you break even. With 3d printing coming down in cost and the materials getting better and accuracy of enterprise-grade machines being equal or better than molded parts I find it hard to justify entertaining the idea of molded parts.

You can lower costs if your tool and its required machining are really simple, but it'll be tough to be much under a few thousand, even if you're using ethically questionable labor in SE Asia. If you're using USA labor, double or triple it.

Then there are the soft tooling options where you use a hard plastic instead of metal for the mold. That will allow a much lower tooling cost, but life is limited and quality is generally poor. Dimensions will walk on you over time so you need to keep a close eye and replace tooling semi-often.

I could go on and on. I used to work a lot with injection molded tooling for mass production. There's an enormous amount of engineering behind a good set of tools and it's fun stuff to work on. For a niche market of aftermarket car parts though, it's often completely impractical because the upfront costs can be enormous.
 
suprarx7nut said:
I'll expand a little here. @BenCC give the short answer, but I can't help myself because I get asked this often and this is a core part of my day job work history.

Injection Molding. To get tooling that lasts long enough to be worthwhile, you need metal tooling. Maybe aluminum, maybe steel. That's expensive. Really, really, really expensive. A small part with no slides (as simple as you can get) might be $5k for one tool for one part. Need to make a tiny change in the design? Boom, another $3-5k.

For my common 100 series shells, I'm on my ~12th revision give or take. In 3D printing, rev changes and multiple versions and updates are zero cost adder. If I were doing injection molds, I'd have to spend upwards of $40k for those tooling changes over the last two years for just one variety of one part. The comparative cost for 3D printing is $0.

With injection molding you save a lot per part if all goes well, but you have a large quantity to sell before you break even. With 3d printing coming down in cost and the materials getting better and accuracy of enterprise-grade machines being equal or better than molded parts I find it hard to justify entertaining the idea of molded parts.

You can lower costs if your tool and its required machining are really simple, but it'll be tough to be much under a few thousand, even if you're using ethically questionable labor in SE Asia. If you're using USA labor, double or triple it.

Then there are the soft tooling options where you use a hard plastic instead of metal for the mold. That will allow a much lower tooling cost, but life is limited and quality is generally poor. Dimensions will walk on you over time so you need to keep a close eye and replace tooling semi-often.

I could go on and on. I used to work a lot with injection molded tooling for mass production. There's an enormous amount of engineering behind a good set of tools and it's fun stuff to work on. For a niche market of aftermarket car parts though, it's often completely impractical because the upfront costs can be enormous.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the explanation, learned something new today very insightful.
 
BenCC said:
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Click to expand...
I have a 98 but those could possibly work. Its worth 27.00 to find out.
 
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