2001LC
SILVER Star
IIRC MM8x1.25
Bearing repack GURUs
- Thread starter looking4lc
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Thanks, Ill pick one up along with a feeler guage and some Mobil 1 wheel grease
I completed my left side yesterday. I ended up torquing the adjustment nut to 50lb to get a 12lb breakaway on the fish scale first pull. Every subsequent pull was around 8. Today I noticed a popping sound in the left side. I hadn't noticed it before, but I really hadn't been paying attention. It is only on flat ground at low speed. I plan on pulling the wheel tomorrow. Any idea what this could be? I did see a torn upper balljoint boot when I had the tire off.
2001LC
SILVER Star
Some pulls, especial first ones will show higher on spring scale as grease settles. Turning so you pull top lug stud at 90 angle is key. Pull parallel to vehicle plane. Never turn hub back to get a stud center at top. Just turn to next stud. Use the averager of lb of pull that are within 1 lb of each other or less. 50ft-lbf is low and seen with newer bearings. Good well broke in I see ~60ft.lbf, Very good I'll get 74ft-lbf to hit breakaway preload of 12.5lb on spring scale.
Upper ball joint are field checked by placing a pry bar under shock tower. Then pull down pressing UCA arm down. (Tires on ground or jack under LCA) While pressing down on UCA watch and feel for up and down moment in ball joint. I place my fingers between UCA and knuckle to feel if space between UCA & knuckle reduces (ball joint moving in and out of socket).
Control arm bushing are very difficult to check. Best is with steering knuckle off, tension off t-bar and shock off LCA.
Popping sound can be CV of front drive shaft going bad. Grab axle between CV an one tulip of CV at a time. Twist hands in opposite direction. Any remarkable play, CV is going bad. Some very minor play is normal with age.
Upper ball joint are field checked by placing a pry bar under shock tower. Then pull down pressing UCA arm down. (Tires on ground or jack under LCA) While pressing down on UCA watch and feel for up and down moment in ball joint. I place my fingers between UCA and knuckle to feel if space between UCA & knuckle reduces (ball joint moving in and out of socket).
Control arm bushing are very difficult to check. Best is with steering knuckle off, tension off t-bar and shock off LCA.
Popping sound can be CV of front drive shaft going bad. Grab axle between CV an one tulip of CV at a time. Twist hands in opposite direction. Any remarkable play, CV is going bad. Some very minor play is normal with age.
It ended up being loose lug nuts. I didn't get to the second wheel on Wednesday. I did it today. Still had the same problem with subsequent pulls. Followed the FSM to the letter and ended up leaving at 50lb torque. First pull was 14# on spring scale. And for those considering this it took me 8 hours to do 2 wheels. Next time I could do it in half that. And if you cant get the C Clip on the shaft be sure you removed the old gasket. Ask me how I know 
Just replaced my rotors and bearings over the thanksgiving break. Thanks @2001LC for the videos. Made this an easy job.
Not sure if its just me or what but i think it eliminated majority of my driveshaft clunk or whatever you want to to call it.
Before replacing everything, i was able to remove the lock nuts by hand. Ordered the bearing kit from Cruiser outfitters.
Not sure if its just me or what but i think it eliminated majority of my driveshaft clunk or whatever you want to to call it.
Before replacing everything, i was able to remove the lock nuts by hand. Ordered the bearing kit from Cruiser outfitters.
2001LC
SILVER Star
Glade the videos helped! One day I'll edit the 6 or 7 into one long video.
Just tackling this again today. These videos are super helpful. When your video 4 cuts out before reaching the preload you were at 52 pounds on the adjusting nut. In the next video it sounds like you say that you reached preload at 42 pounds on the adjusting nut. I know it’s been a while, but was that a misremember or misstatement? Did 52 do the trick?
As I recall my last time, I really had to get it up there on the adjusting nuts to get in preload spec. You say you’ve gone as high as 60 on the adjusting nut? It looks like you were headed that way in video 4, want to make sure I’m not missing a step.
2001LC
SILVER Star
Torque spec on adjusting nut, is whatever it takes! The goal is the breakaway preload reading on pull spring scale. I shoot for 12.5lb final pull with stock tires size. With larger tires, lifted or wheel spacer. I shoot for the upper range on spring scale. FSM spec for breakaway preload (pull on spring scale) is 9.5 to 15LB.
What I've found is with good well broke in bearings. I'll get from 54lb-lbf to 80fl-lbf torque on adjusting nut, to reach target breakaway preload. The higher the torque reading I end up with. The better condition the bearings are in. With brand new wheel bearings & races. I'll end up with a very consistent 45ft-lbf -+2lb. With poor condition wheel bearings & races. I see torques values come in around 20ft-lbf.
I'm very consistent on how I clean and pack wheel bearings, and at what out side temperature (OAT). More precisely, the temperature of component & grease during assembly. Even the grease I use (Mobil 1). I pull on spring scale at same 90 degree angle, turning wheel hub and pulling in direct of travel, the same every time. My procedure never varies.
The only variable is temperature. Most times the OAT is between 68F and 90F. If OAT gets to low, say 45F. The grease will thicken. This increases reading on spring scale. So I always try to have hub and bearings above 65F.
What I've found over the years. Is these bearings & races get better and better if service done correctly. So each 30K miles (less in built rig). Claw washer will have no scoring, that fingernail can catch on, and torque will be higher than during last service to reach same breakaway preload..
What I've found is with good well broke in bearings. I'll get from 54lb-lbf to 80fl-lbf torque on adjusting nut, to reach target breakaway preload. The higher the torque reading I end up with. The better condition the bearings are in. With brand new wheel bearings & races. I'll end up with a very consistent 45ft-lbf -+2lb. With poor condition wheel bearings & races. I see torques values come in around 20ft-lbf.
I'm very consistent on how I clean and pack wheel bearings, and at what out side temperature (OAT). More precisely, the temperature of component & grease during assembly. Even the grease I use (Mobil 1). I pull on spring scale at same 90 degree angle, turning wheel hub and pulling in direct of travel, the same every time. My procedure never varies.
The only variable is temperature. Most times the OAT is between 68F and 90F. If OAT gets to low, say 45F. The grease will thicken. This increases reading on spring scale. So I always try to have hub and bearings above 65F.
What I've found over the years. Is these bearings & races get better and better if service done correctly. So each 30K miles (less in built rig). Claw washer will have no scoring, that fingernail can catch on, and torque will be higher than during last service to reach same breakaway preload..
Thanks, I have learned (and been able to do) so much thanks to your selfless efforts here.
Might have to wait a while to reach that temperature here in Maine.
Might have to wait a while to reach that temperature here in Maine.
I’ve never understood the instruction to torque the nut, hand loosen it, then torque it again.
Do you also loosen the adjusting nut and torque to 38-57in-lbf (steps c and d) after torquing it to whatever it takes?
uHu
Bridgeburner
Just to make it clear: The adjusting nut is the inner one of the two hub nuts.
The first tightening of the adjusting nut is for setting the bearing and the grease (steps a and b). This is done by applying a high torque on the bearing and then rotating several times. After loosening the adjuster nut, do not rotate the hub at all until torq is reapplied. The second tightening (step c) is for finding the torque which will give you the correct preload on the scales. This process is well described in here.
After all that, you put on the claw washer and the outer nut, the lock nut, which has it's own torque spec. Then check the preload again.
Observe that on the left side (driver's in the US, NS (near side) in the UK, LHS in the rest of the world
), the hub nuts have a habit of wanting to unscrew themselves, so make sure that both of the washers are in perfect condition and especially that the inner lock washer's tab is solid and protrudes well into the groove.
The first tightening of the adjusting nut is for setting the bearing and the grease (steps a and b). This is done by applying a high torque on the bearing and then rotating several times. After loosening the adjuster nut, do not rotate the hub at all until torq is reapplied. The second tightening (step c) is for finding the torque which will give you the correct preload on the scales. This process is well described in here.
After all that, you put on the claw washer and the outer nut, the lock nut, which has it's own torque spec. Then check the preload again.
Observe that on the left side (driver's in the US, NS (near side) in the UK, LHS in the rest of the world
), the hub nuts have a habit of wanting to unscrew themselves, so make sure that both of the washers are in perfect condition and especially that the inner lock washer's tab is solid and protrudes well into the groove.Here’s the rest of the FSM steps
Step 2a - torque adjusting nut to 43 to settle the bearing and grease
Step 2b - spin it
Step 2c - loosen the adjusting nut until it can be turned by hand
Step 2d - Tighten it just a little bit (38-57 in)
Step 2e - Test preload (and laugh?)
Now torque it to as much as it needs? (Would be step 2f)
Step 2a - torque adjusting nut to 43 to settle the bearing and grease
Step 2b - spin it
Step 2c - loosen the adjusting nut until it can be turned by hand
Step 2d - Tighten it just a little bit (38-57 in)
Step 2e - Test preload (and laugh?)
Now torque it to as much as it needs? (Would be step 2f)
2001LC
SILVER Star
I too was reading the FSM wrong at first. Once you read in light of torque on adjusting nut is not the goal, but that preload as measure with spring scale is. It then becomes clear!
What I've found is the worst condition bearing, preload hit max of 15lb on spring scale with very low torque on adjusting nut. But with very good wheel bearings, torque comes in very high on adjusting nut to hit just 12.5lb pull on spring scale.
So after "Settle grease" by torque adjusting nut, spinning hub, backing off adjusting nut. I then re- torque adjusting nut much high than FSM ~53IN.lbf. I go right back up to 43 - 47ft-lbf in new wheel bearings. In good used, I go to 55ft-lbf. In really good wheel bearings well broken in, I start at 65ft-lbf torque on adjusting nut. I than put spring scale on and pull. Save time!
What I've found is the worst condition bearing, preload hit max of 15lb on spring scale with very low torque on adjusting nut. But with very good wheel bearings, torque comes in very high on adjusting nut to hit just 12.5lb pull on spring scale.
So after "Settle grease" by torque adjusting nut, spinning hub, backing off adjusting nut. I then re- torque adjusting nut much high than FSM ~53IN.lbf. I go right back up to 43 - 47ft-lbf in new wheel bearings. In good used, I go to 55ft-lbf. In really good wheel bearings well broken in, I start at 65ft-lbf torque on adjusting nut. I than put spring scale on and pull. Save time!
TL;DR: did a ton of work, repacked wheel bearings and torqued lock nut to 70ft.lbs to get 10lb on the fish scale. IR gun temps showed 150F or so on the hub/rotor after a 40 mile round trip. Steering felt much more precise, but is my hub / rotor temp too high? It was also, of course, hot to the touch when just touching the hub part.
I'm posting this in a few threads potentially, trying to find the best place to "keep the conversation" going about adjusting nut torque.
This past weekend I replaced my rotors and pads front and rear. I used Hawk LTS pads and Toyota OEM rotors. Truck has 260k miles on it and the service history shows wheel bearings replaced at 136k miles by Wilde Lexus Sarasota, then wheel bearings repacked at 164k miles due to "large amounts of play". Well, Wilde Lexus Sarasota employs a couple of super-hack-ass technicians who clearly used a punch to remove and install the adjusting nut and locknuts, but they didn't bother with the washer locking tabs, nor did they bother to do much beyond finger tighten the adjusting nut or locknut. Furthermore, those dirtbag techs cross threaded two bolts on the driver side rotor to hub bolts, and then decided to use their air powered torque gun to run in 13mm bolts to fix their cross threading issue.
As a former technician ,that worked flat rate for a different brand (starts with a Por and ends with sche) and cared about my work, this is so unacceptable I am thinking of leaving a Yelp review and a google review with this information to see what happens. This is always my experience when baselining a new-to-me vehicle, dealer techs are hacks. I have never had a @2001LC experience where the tech took their time to do things correctly or to my standards.
OK, now that is off my chest, here's my situation:
As stated, I replaced pads, rotors, repacked wheel bearings, fixed the hub hack job, amongst other bushing replacements. This is part of a major baseline involving AHC globes, upper shock cushions, lower shock bushings, sway bar bushings, t-belt, radiator, all heater hoses and oil cooler hoses, clamps, etc. I take my rigs into Death Valley, sometimes 4-6 hours away from cell service and the last thing I want is to be broken down and turn into the next German hikers from Butte Valley / Mengel pass media story.
When torqueing down the adjusting nut, I ended up at 70ft.lbs. to get 10 lbs on the fish scale, then it bumped up to ~10.5lbs when torqueing down the lock nut. I did not want to go higher than 70ft.lb on the adjusting nut...but even at 80 ft. lbs I still got 10lbs on the fish scale. Some of you have gone that high but reported ambient temps on the hubs. I followed most everything I could learn about using the fish scale multiple times and averaging the result. I used Mobil 1 grease, the red grease and repacked bearings using the new Lisle bearing repacker, and used the entire tub so I could fill in all the cavity volume of the hub.
After a 40 mile round trip today I used my heat gun to check the hub temps and they were hot to the touch and the hottest points were 150F after getting off the highway and into my driveway - about a mile with a few stops along the way.
So, long way to get to my question, are my temps too high and are my wheel bearings too tight?
I'm posting this in a few threads potentially, trying to find the best place to "keep the conversation" going about adjusting nut torque.
This past weekend I replaced my rotors and pads front and rear. I used Hawk LTS pads and Toyota OEM rotors. Truck has 260k miles on it and the service history shows wheel bearings replaced at 136k miles by Wilde Lexus Sarasota, then wheel bearings repacked at 164k miles due to "large amounts of play". Well, Wilde Lexus Sarasota employs a couple of super-hack-ass technicians who clearly used a punch to remove and install the adjusting nut and locknuts, but they didn't bother with the washer locking tabs, nor did they bother to do much beyond finger tighten the adjusting nut or locknut. Furthermore, those dirtbag techs cross threaded two bolts on the driver side rotor to hub bolts, and then decided to use their air powered torque gun to run in 13mm bolts to fix their cross threading issue.
As a former technician ,that worked flat rate for a different brand (starts with a Por and ends with sche) and cared about my work, this is so unacceptable I am thinking of leaving a Yelp review and a google review with this information to see what happens. This is always my experience when baselining a new-to-me vehicle, dealer techs are hacks. I have never had a @2001LC experience where the tech took their time to do things correctly or to my standards.
OK, now that is off my chest, here's my situation:
As stated, I replaced pads, rotors, repacked wheel bearings, fixed the hub hack job, amongst other bushing replacements. This is part of a major baseline involving AHC globes, upper shock cushions, lower shock bushings, sway bar bushings, t-belt, radiator, all heater hoses and oil cooler hoses, clamps, etc. I take my rigs into Death Valley, sometimes 4-6 hours away from cell service and the last thing I want is to be broken down and turn into the next German hikers from Butte Valley / Mengel pass media story.
When torqueing down the adjusting nut, I ended up at 70ft.lbs. to get 10 lbs on the fish scale, then it bumped up to ~10.5lbs when torqueing down the lock nut. I did not want to go higher than 70ft.lb on the adjusting nut...but even at 80 ft. lbs I still got 10lbs on the fish scale. Some of you have gone that high but reported ambient temps on the hubs. I followed most everything I could learn about using the fish scale multiple times and averaging the result. I used Mobil 1 grease, the red grease and repacked bearings using the new Lisle bearing repacker, and used the entire tub so I could fill in all the cavity volume of the hub.
After a 40 mile round trip today I used my heat gun to check the hub temps and they were hot to the touch and the hottest points were 150F after getting off the highway and into my driveway - about a mile with a few stops along the way.
So, long way to get to my question, are my temps too high and are my wheel bearings too tight?
I go to 47ft lbs first, spin rotor forward a few turns, loosen adjusting nut, spin rotor forward a few turns, then retorque starting around 25ftlbs, check with fish scale take reading, back off adjusting nut spin rotor forward a few turns, then retorque increasing torque in 5ft lb increments repeating the loosen and tighten process each time until I work my way up to my target break away preload.
I found that the repeated loosening (unloading) bearing and re-torquing incrementally higher that I could achieve my target break away (13-15lbf) closer to 50-55ft lbs. it’s labor intensive but it worked for me.
I found that the repeated loosening (unloading) bearing and re-torquing incrementally higher that I could achieve my target break away (13-15lbf) closer to 50-55ft lbs. it’s labor intensive but it worked for me.
Exactly how I do it on a new-to-me 100 series, I don't find it adds that much time in the overall scheme of things!
Normally I wouldn't think at all about hub temps but I read about some folks checking it after the wheel bearing service and torque that have much more experience with these services than I do.
Thinking about this more, I probably should have IR temp checked the rears for reference to see if the multiple 65 to 0 mph slow downs on the side streets were mainly the cause of the heat.
Normally I wouldn't think at all about hub temps but I read about some folks checking it after the wheel bearing service and torque that have much more experience with these services than I do.
Thinking about this more, I probably should have IR temp checked the rears for reference to see if the multiple 65 to 0 mph slow downs on the side streets were mainly the cause of the heat.
2001LC
SILVER Star
150F hub temp seems high. I've had as much as 80ft-lbf on adjusting nut to get ~13lb breakaway preload. I get about ~115F w/IR gun on hubs. The hubs and wheel bearings can handle 150F, but still running hot for some reason!
A few possibilities.
First the history you outline of wheel bearings. Would indicate yours bearing aren't in very good condition. We typically see a lower torque to reach a ~12.5lb breakaway preload (BWP) with poor condition bearings. Yet you reported a very high 70ft-lbfto 80ft-lbf torque at a low ~10.5lb BWP. So sometime seem wrong here. Or bearing are in very very good broken in condition!
100f degree OAT (Outside Air temp and Ambient temp of surfaces) on hot sunny day, on black-top asphalt at noon. You could see ~160F asphalt temp. So during test run this must be considered.
OAT and ambient temperature of wheel hub, bearings and grease during assemble, does effect BWP. If over 90f you would want to use lower BWP, as you've done. i.e ~10.5lb BWP. If below ~55F you'd want to use higher i.e 15lb BWP. Below 37F you'd not get a usable reading.
Both fish scale and torques wrench may need calibrating. But even if say 10% or 15% over torque/pull, due to tools reading low. That would be least reason for running hot. As the bearings like to be tight.
Not pulling fish scale at a 90 degree angle to hub, which we must and we must pull slowly, every time. Or we get bad readings!
It's unusual to see, increase in breakaway preload form locking nut, if adjusting nut has over ~50ft-lbf torque on it. Although 1/2 pound BWP is negligible.
Over packing wheel hub cavity and the bearing run hot. We want at least a small air gap between grease and spindle. If no air gap wheel hub/grease will retain excessive heat and bearing will run hot. But I'd rather see running hot, than unfilled causing centrifugal force push grease out of bearings. Under packed/under filled cavity, we'd burn up bearings. Unpacked on long HWY run for hours. We'd create so much heat from dry bearings, we can fuse hub to axle. I'm guilty of over-packing cavity often, as I fear under packing more than anything.
Thank you for the reply. It just occurred to me to ask when taking temperature do you measure the front axle drive flange? I put Tundra TRD Pro BBS forged rims on and didn’t leave off front center cap to IR gun the axle drive flange.
I was measuring the temp Inside the wheel where hub meets rotor hat. So potentially mainly measuring rotor heat from braking.
Edit I should also mention I used fish scale as you describe. Basically I followed all of your extremely helpful videos and messages on wheel bearing and hub repair processes.
Pass side is packed a little more full than driver to see if any variation.
I was measuring the temp Inside the wheel where hub meets rotor hat. So potentially mainly measuring rotor heat from braking.
Edit I should also mention I used fish scale as you describe. Basically I followed all of your extremely helpful videos and messages on wheel bearing and hub repair processes.
Pass side is packed a little more full than driver to see if any variation.
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2001LC
SILVER Star
Yeah I leave the hub caps off. I shoot near grease cap at few points between grease cap and nuts/studs/cone washer of hub flange. The brake rotors gets so hot, they melt plastic (killed my plastic caliper). They heat will transfer to the wheel hubs. So don't over-brake, using your transmission gearing down to help slow is one way to avoid overheating brakes.
