Bearing repack GURUs

[looking4lc]

Pictures attached

Done repack couple days ago for driver side, any recommendations for the passenger side?

 

[Julian Stead]

Make sure you grease the needle bearings when your there.

 

[looking4lc]

Make sure you grease the needle bearings when your there.

i did using " push axle method and grease the brass bushing.

 

[badlander]

That's not sand inside the dust shield is it? If so I would clean it out. It could lead to ABS sensor issues.
Speaking of the ABS sensor, take out the mounting bolt and try to remove it. If it hasn't already seized on place due to rust, remove it and lube it and the hole with dielectric grease. That will help prevent it from seizing in place in the future.
FYI, It helps to be able to remove the sensor and wire from the steering knuckle to allow easier CV axle replacement. If you ever do have to remove it, and can't, you will end up having to remove the hub again, and dust shield, and pound it out from the inside, most likely destroying it in the process, then installing a new one. Ask me how I know........
And like Julian Stead suggested, hit the needle bearings while you are in there.
Fun with grease!

 

[duggy]

Is it my eyes or has the bearings been spinning on the spindle? There should be very little to no wear at all on the spindle.

 

[2003lx470]

1. What is the 1st torque for the adjusting nut to settle down the bearing?

2. After loosening the adjusting nut, what is your final torque?

I am not planning on using "fish scales"

 

[looking4lc]

1. What is the 1st torque for the adjusting nut to settle down the bearing? 43ft-lbf

2. After loosening the adjusting nut, what is your final torque? around 5ft.-lbf

I am not planning on using "fish scales"

I didnt use it/ have it either

 

[looking4lc]

Is it my eyes or has the bearings been spinning on the spindle? There should be very little to no wear at all on the spindle.

there is little wear but no groove. I greased the spindle as well.
should I be concerned?

 

[Julian Stead]

I would say 5ft ibf is to loose.

 

[looking4lc]

Because there is a debate on the final torque so I used recommended in FSM

 

[looking4lc]

I would say 5ft ibf is to loose.

what torque would you recommend ? (no fish scale here)

 

[Julian Stead]

The most important part is to make sure that the bearing is settled before you release and set preload, so tighten to 43ft ibf and spin the hub and retorque the nut, repeat this over and over until the nut doesn't turn anymore before the torque wrench clicks, then release slowly not to unsettle the bearing and set the pre load, using a fish scale the minimum torque I have found was 10ft ibf to being used.

 

[looking4lc]

The most important part is to make sure that the bearing is settled before you release and set preload, so tighten to 43ft ibf and spin the hub and retorque the nut, repeat this over and over until the nut doesn't turn anymore before the torque wrench clicks, then release slowly not to unsettle the bearing and set the pre load, using a fish scale the minimum torque I have found was 10ft ibf to being used.

I did all that except the bold line.

followed "adjusting bearing should be hand tight"

 

[Julian Stead]

I bet he tightened that more than 5ft ibf even by hand, he gives it a good tightening.

 

[2001LC]

How'd bearings & races look after cleaning?
What grease did you repack with?
What grease used for axle bushing & needle bearing?
How much torque did you use on adjusting nut?
What was snap ring gap?
Each lock washer tabs can only be safely bent once.
I'd flip claw washer so smoothest side in or replace with new.

I've not yet had a problem with bearings being too tight, but have seen many issue when loose. I really wouldn't do a wheel bearing service without a pull (fish) scale, or it is just guessing.

I've found the older the bearing, the higher the torque needed to get the proper breakaway preload. I've seen from 23ft-lbf to 63tf-lbf torque just to get 9.5 - 15lbf on breakaway preload using a fish scale on used bearings (100k to 200k miles).
__________________________________________________

On this bearing service job, I found damage on outboard front drive shaft dust cover seals, hub flange teeth and excessive snap ring gaps of 0.60mm during disassemble. Loose wheel bearings cause chatter which is evidenced on claw washer scoring. This chatter then starts wearing on all components widening snap ring gap and wearing teeth of hub flange and axle. If not corrected the damage will extend too other parts.

On this rig pictured below, the loose wheel bearing damage was exuberated by not balancing tires regularly/properly and worn steering rack bushing. The road vibration and wondering was really bad, and made it unsafe to drive, now it's drives smooth and safe as new.

Here's a look at back side of knuckle, where axle bushing and needle bearings are located:

There are easy fast ways to grease the axle bushing & bearings without removing knuckle:
Slee - Spindle Grease Tool
How to lubricate front axle shaft bushings?

I also like removing the knuckle dust cover if corroded in speed sensor area or my first service of a rig. So I can then inspect & clean out and then grease with marine grease, leaving drain hole at bottom open and clean. I put a thin layer of grease on all contact points included those of gasket, or any exposed metal. This stop corrosion, makes for better seal, easy removable and cleaning next servicing as it protects. I've gotten more and more liberal with marine grease over the years. I do wipe off excess, without using a degreasing during assemble.

I've replaced or even swapped hub flange of PS with DS to help tight up the back lash of hub flange to axle teeth.
Here's the teeth of a hub flange I needed to replaced (~$50 each).

I reuse cone washer & hub flange nuts (FSM states not reusable), provided they pass inspection after cleaning. I then grease cones washer and use blue loctite on nuts. I find using a puller with clamp (clamp on knuckle in back, not dust cover) to pull axle up tight against axle bushing, very helpful to get good gap reading. The gap was .23mm on this job, so I replace snap ring with next size up (2.4mm) to get a very tight gap of ~0.03mm. Once gaps is over .2mm maximum with thickest snap ring (2.8mm) available, parts must be replaced. Here a list of possible parts that may be needed to get proper gap: claw washer, bearing & race, axle bushing, hub flange, axle (front drive shaft), spindle (knuckle). That is also a list of what loose wheel bearing breakaway preload can damage over time.

Placing a jack under LCA, lifting to align front drive shaft is helpful. The key is to really pull out the axle tight and settle any grease on back side axle bushing area. It is not possible to have a snap ring gap to tight.

I also use marine grease on wheel hub to wheel contact points. You're looking at my LC with 165K miles on the hub. Notice no corrosion or rust at mounting points of hub.

Note: Never bang or pry on the hub flange to remove. Use a brass dowel to hit end of studs (per FSM), then grab cone washer with a pair of channel-locks or pliers to pull out. Some penetrating oil and/or heat can be helpful on those really stuck cone washers.

Check out that jack stand held up with a pin (nail), it's older than me, and I'm older than dirt...LOL
Safety first right!

 

[2001LC]

Because there is a debate on the final torque so I used recommended in FSM

The FSM uses 38 - 57in.-lbf, which is ~4ft-lbf torque. Then goes on to say measure preload ((at starting) breakaway preload)):

I'm in the camp that believes starting breakaway preload not torque is key.

 

[looking4lc]

How'd bearings & races look after cleaning?
What grease did you repack with?
What grease used for axle bushing & needle bearing?
How much torque did you use on adjusting nut?
What was snap ring gap?
Each lock washer tabs can only be safely bent once.
I'd flip claw washer so smoothest side in or replace with new.

I've not yet had a problem with bearings being too tight, but have seen many issue when loose. I really wouldn't do a wheel bearing service without a pull (fish) scale, or it is just guessing.

I've found the older the bearing, the higher the torque needed to get the proper breakaway preload. I've seen from 23ft-lbf to 63tf-lbf torque just to get 9.5 - 15lbf on breakaway preload using a fish scale on used bearings (100k to 200k miles).
__________________________________________________

On this bearing service job, I found damage on outboard front drive shaft dust cover seals, hub flange teeth and excessive snap ring gaps of 0.60mm during disassemble. Loose wheel bearings cause chatter which is evidenced on claw washer scoring. This chatter then starts wearing on all components widening snap ring gap and wearing teeth of hub flange and axle. If not corrected the damage will extend too other parts.

On this rig pictured below, the loose wheel bearing damage was exuberated by not balancing tires regularly/properly and worn steering rack bushing. The road vibration and wondering was really bad, and made it unsafe to drive, now it's drives smooth and safe as new.

Here's a look at back side of knuckle, where axle bushing and needle bearings are located:

View attachment 1251310
There are easy fast ways to grease the axle bushing & bearings without removing knuckle:
Slee - Spindle Grease Tool
How to lubricate front axle shaft bushings?

I also like removing the knuckle dust cover if corroded in speed sensor area or my first service of a rig. So I can then inspect & clean out and then grease with marine grease, leaving drain hole at bottom open and clean. I put a thin layer of grease on all contact points included those of gasket, or any exposed metal. This stop corrosion, makes for better seal, easy removable and cleaning next servicing as it protects. I've gotten more and more liberal with marine grease over the years. I do wipe off excess, without using a degreasing during assemble.

View attachment 1251292
View attachment 1251289


I've replaced or even swapped hub flange of PS with DS to help tight up the back lash of hub flange to axle teeth.
Here's the teeth of a hub flange I needed to replaced (~$50 each).

View attachment 1251311

I reuse cone washer & hub flange nuts (FSM states not reusable), provided they pass inspection after cleaning. I then grease cones washer and use blue loctite on nuts. I find using a puller with clamp (clamp on knuckle in back, not dust cover) to pull axle up tight against axle bushing, very helpful to get good gap reading. The gap was .23mm on this job, so I replace snap ring with next size up (2.4mm) to get a very tight gap of ~0.03mm. Once gaps is over .2mm maximum with thickest snap ring (2.8mm) available, parts must be replaced. Here a list of possible parts that may be needed to get proper gap: claw washer, bearing & race, axle bushing, hub flange, axle (front drive shaft), spindle (knuckle). That is also a list of what loose wheel bearing breakaway preload can damage over time.

View attachment 1251313
Placing a jack under LCA, lifting to align front drive shaft is helpful. The key is to really pull out the axle tight and settle any grease on back side axle bushing area. It is not possible to have a snap ring gap to tight.

I also use marine grease on wheel hub to wheel contact points. You're looking at my LC with 165K miles on the hub. Notice no corrosion or rust at mounting points of hub.

Note: Never banger or pry on the hub flange to remove. Use a brass dowel to hit end of studs (per FSM), then grab cone washer with a pair of channel-locks or pliers to pull out. Some penetrating oil and/or heat can be helpful in those really stuck cone washers.

Check out that jack stand held up with a pin (nail), it's older than me, and I'm older than dirt...LOL
Safety first right!

hi Paul.
Thanks for your valuable info again.i will try to answer your Qs in order.

- Bearing and race look good with no sign of heat or wear.
- i used NLGI 2 (best i could find in middle east (no Synth/or NLGI 1 could be found) will attach a pic
- i used same grease in the needle and axle bushing since its high temp.
- i followed your instruction on the torque "43ft-lbf, spin the wheel hub a few times to settle the bearing. Then back off the adjusting nut and tighten to 38 to 57 in.-lbf (or ~5ft.-lbf)" except the preload with fish scale not been done.
- Snap ring gab was same measure before i took it off. had to push the axle inward to have it settle.

drove it for 250 miles after repack one side only, no chatter or noise. will be doing the other side this week.

 

[looking4lc]

Here is the grease I used

 

[Julian Stead]

I think the reason toyota adds preload and not have end play is because the wheel is a driven wheel and also does the steering. The problem with setting preload is that in my opinion it is affected by to many variables, also a small amount of end play is acceptable but to much preload isn't if setting a taper bearing on any other vehicle.
My original bearing would never get to 9.5 ibf as even when tightened to 43ft ibf it didn't get passed 7 ibf preload. Lucky though when I fitted new bearings it got to 10 ibf pretty easy, not sure why, might be the type of grease I used, ambient temperature or just because they are new. As long as you get some preload and eliminate endplay I can't think why trying to add more preload to achieve a certain number gains anything other than heat any wear. I know toyota has to come up with a figure but I would take it with a pinch of salt, as long as you remove end play using a small amount of preload you should be good to go. You can check that you have added preload with a fish scale but I don't think the numbers are relevant just as long as they increase some.

10ft ibf isn't that tight, I would be monitoring temps if I had to add over 30ft ibf though, seems a lot.

I might be totally wrong on this but over tightening is something I can't find reasoning in.

 

[2001LC]

I did all that except the bold line.

followed "adjusting bearing should be hand tight"

This youtube video, should be a lessen in how to improperly use and rune tools, and how not to do a wheel bearing job. Just in first five minute I saw ~5 things not to do. I would have thought he worked on the one I just had to redo, had he not had the 54mm socket.

hi Paul.
Thanks for your valuable info again.i will try to answer your Qs in order.

- Bearing and race look good with no sign of heat or wear.
- i used NLGI 2 (best i could find in middle east (no Synth/or NLGI 1 could be found) will attach a pic
- i used same grease in the needle and axle bushing since its high temp.
- i followed your instruction on the torque "43ft-lbf, spin the wheel hub a few times to settle the bearing. Then back off the adjusting nut and tighten to 38 to 57 in.-lbf (or ~5ft.-lbf)" except the preload with fish scale not been done.
- Snap ring gab was same measure before i took it off. had to push the axle inward to have it settle.

drove it for 250 miles after repack one side only, no chatter or noise. will be doing the other side this week.

You'll not hear or feel chatter, it shows up on claw washer first as scoring. Once chatter gets to point of vibration you can feel while driving, is when damage is being done to many components and rig is unsafe to drive on HWY. The chatter referred to in the above video is from sound of brakes pads, as a result of the spring retainer not being installed.

Your claw washer shows chatter marks (scoring or grooving) which I'll bet is from bearings being to loose. This is very common to see.

To say your snap ring gap was the same before and after is doubtful. If you change the torque, flip the claw washer so good side in or replaced, the gap will change. It is important to check the gap and get a very accurate reading.

Here is the grease I used

View attachment 1251563

As you know #1 synthetic grease is recommended by Toyota, but #2 is ok in axle bearing & bushing. You may just hear a little groaning on cold mornings during slow turns. As a rule, we look for a grease that states "wheel bearing" and/or "chassis" grease. Which is a high temp grease and high speed grease. Your grease (150*C) should do ok if it's also high speed grease. Just keep up with recommended service intervals for your driving condition.

On a side note; the owner manuals recommends lubing propeller shafts and spider joints (u-joints) after every day in the sand. By the looks of your knuckle dust cover, I'm guessing you get into deep sand now and then.

I think the reason toyota adds preload and not have end play is because the wheel is a driven wheel and also does the steering. The problem with setting preload is that in my opinion it is affected by to many variables, also a small amount of end play is acceptable but to much preload isn't if setting a taper bearing on any other vehicle.
My original bearing would never get to 9.5 ibf as even when tightened to 43ft ibf it didn't get passed 7 ibf preload. Lucky though when I fitted new bearings it got to 10 ibf pretty easy, not sure why, might be the type of grease I used, ambient temperature or just because they are new. As long as you get some preload and eliminate endplay I can't think why trying to add more preload to achieve a certain number gains anything other than heat any wear. I know toyota has to come up with a figure but I would take it with a pinch of salt, as long as you remove end play using a small amount of preload you should be good to go. You can check that you have added preload with a fish scale but I don't think the numbers are relevant just as long as they increase some.

10ft ibf isn't that tight, I would be monitoring temps if I had to add over 30ft ibf though, seems a lot.

I might be totally wrong on this but over tightening is something I can't find reasoning in.

IMHO and by both our experiences: new bearings & races do get to the FSM stated "starting preload of 9.5 - 15lbf" easily at a much lower torque. On the other hand used well worn in bearings do not. For this reason I believe Toyota gave us "starting preload or breakaway preload" and not just a torque spec.

My first bearing service on my LC, I was sure that some SOB had over tightened. Claw washer scoring (grooving), pitting on bearings, signs of overheating (blue metal) and scoring on spindle and races. I soon realized that was not the case, and that DS which had the most damage from being loose. That POs mechanic forgot to bend the DS lock washer tab, which aloud the nuts to loosen. The PS side only had minor scoring of claw washer and pitting.

I talked with the most senior Lexus mechanic in the state years ago on this issue. He's the one that told me about chatter on claw washer being caused from loose bearings. I also spent time with a Toyota shop foreman on the issue back then. He referred back to the older four running FSM which recommended 18ft-lbf torque on adjusting nut. 18ft-lbf torque is much higher than hand tight or sung that most shops use.

I've been increasing torque to bring up or get too FSM recommended starting preload breakaway for years, with each servicing of bearings. What I've found is the claw washers have looked better as have the bearings, races and spindle the tighter I've gone.

I've only recently crossed over ~40ft-lbf torque on adjusting nut, which I have become concerned with such a high torque. But to date, all damage I found has been on loose bearings, not tight. It could be going to these high torque levels is a sign it's time to put in new bearings & races, which I plan on doing next service anyway. But first I wanted to push the boundaries just to see what happens. So far my temps readings look good on fronts hubs, with adjusting nut torqued to ~50 and 60ft-lbf with preload starting breakaway at ~11lbf. I have been seeing lower temp readings on front hubs than on rear wheel hubs, with the highest temp at 118*F. So far so good.....