Battery Information (1 Viewer)

[Ted44]

Cool. Thanks for looking into this. I saw them on the "Two Guys Garage" TV show and the web site is very sparse on info. I heard they were $$$$$, but DAYUM!

 

[cary]

Added information about Johnson Controls new AGM plant and Northstar batteries. Also I have included where it is known, the manufacturing location of the product, as I know that this is a factor many consider in their purchasing decisions.

 

[western flyer]

Thanks Cary.

 

[cary]

I happened to walk into our local independent parts supplier yesterday and ended up walking out with a relabeled Deka battery for $127. While not as much reserve capacity as the 27F, this 24F has 800CCA, 115RC, a 3 year free replacement warranty, and is U.S. made. It is amazing how much faster the truck spins over from the 4 year old Group 35 battery which still tests well.

 

[mypancreasbroke]

Loved this read, thanks so much! Batteries are something I never felt well prepped on when buying, and now I feel armed and ready to make a good purchase. Appreciate your work!

 

[bugsnbikes]

Does the 80 alternator not overcharge AGMs? or does it sense temp and voltage and shut down the charging of the batts?

 

[TYM4FUN]

Wow, thanks man. tagged and saved!

 

[ECBMCC]

Cary, impressive write up, kudos for the time you spent preparing this information. Where would the Toyota Heavy Duty battery fall on this scale of batteries? Thanks.

 

[jacques01]

Dang, this is sticky material. That's the most compact, efficient information I've ever seen on batteries. EXCELLENT.

Yeah same here Racer i'm totally agree with you.

 

[DetroitStyle]

This should be a sticky!

 

[tpizza01]

Agreed^^^

Great write-up and thanks!!! Best battery thread I have seen yet.

 

[Brentbba]

Mods - absolutely FAQ material and timely. Just replaced a failing starter and checked main battery. Purchased 5.10 so it's at almost 5 years - Sears Platinum. It's younger than the Optima Yellow Top too, so I'll probably be looking at replacing both. Optima is the 2nd battery and even after a long drive only had 10.4 volts - time to replace it too.

 

[nukegoat]

Why are battery posts tapered? So dumb.

 

[Dubbinchris]

Pretty much every battery post on the planet is tapered if I'm not mistaken.

 

[4G63 POWER]

Get a mercedes agm last battery you will ever buy.

 

[nukegoat]

Pretty much every battery post on the planet is tapered if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, but why?

 

[blkprj80]

So you can still remove it when it gets all fuggered up. It is easy to remove once you move it a little bit.

I've seen people pound them on with a hammer. You're not supposed to, but...

 

[Stylo07]

Thanks to this very timely thread, I just replaced my 5 year old Die Hard International 27F:

With a Northstar X2Power 24F:

 

[TahoeLX450]

So it is getting time for me to replace the battery in my truck and as part of that, I have been doing some research about batteries. When I say some, I should clarify it as the type of research you do when you are in a foot cast and it is a pain to get around anywhere, so you lay on your back and read a bunch. Rather than let it go to waste, I figured, why not put my lost time to use. So here it goes.

What battery size comes in our trucks?

Group 24F or 27F depending on the year. Both fit. Group 35 is a common aftermarket replacement that is smaller than both the 24f and 27f.

What other batteries fit in our trucks?

Group 34R with a spacer plate underneath, Group 65 (wrong terminal orientation and requires moving the wires and a better hold down clamp), Group 34M (terminal reversed), Group 31M (tight fit but fits with minor work).

What brand of battery is the best?

That is like asking what the best dinner is. There are three major manufactures of batteries in the U.S., Johnson Controls, Exide, and Eastern-Penn (Deka), which are then labeled by different distributors/retailers. (Note that Johnson Controls has moved most of their production to Mexico). There are also several small manufactures, the best known one of which is Enersys, the manufacture of the Odyssey brand Absorbed Gas Mat (AGM) batteries. A newer manufacture of AGM Batteries is Northstar, which are becoming more available. Some models of Odyssey are also relabeled as the Sears Die Hard Platinum. If is is a Die Hard Platinum, it is an Odyssey.

Who makes my battery:

• 
  Sears- Diehard: Lead Acid- Johnson Controls, Platinum AGM- Odyssey, Gold Advanced AGM- Eastern- Penn.
  Interstate- Johnson Controls.
  Walmart Everstart- Johnson Controls (Exide Contract Cancelled).
  Autozone Duralast- Lead Acid- Johnson Controls, AGM- East-Penn.
  Pep Boys (including Bosch)- As of Aug 2012 Exide
  Napa- Lead Acid- Johnson Controls; AGM- East-Penn.
  Optima- Johnson Controls.
  Varta AGM- Fall 2012- Johnson Controls in a new US plant.
  Costco-Johnson Controls.
  Northstar- Northstar and also distributed by Batteries Plus as the X2Power and Exide under the Northstar label.
  Duracell- East Penn (Deka)
  Rayovac (Batteries Plus)- Lead Acid- Johnson Controls; AGM- East Penn (Deka)
  Deka- East Penn

What is the difference between a lead acid and AGM battery?

A lead acid battery (traditional) uses liquid mix of acid and water that submerges the battery plates. An AGM (Absorbed Gas Mat) battery uses a membrane that suspends the acid mixture. The advantages of an AGM battery are they produce no gasses unless overcharged, are totally sealed so they don't evaporate, and the big one is they can handle more deep discharges. Typically an AGM battery can handle twice as many discharges to 50% of capacity as a standard lead acid battery. Additionally, AGM batteries have lower internal resistance so they can provide more instant current.

For those that want a better understanding of AGM batteries, here are a few links that provide excellent technical explanations of Lead Acid v. AGM:

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/files/US-ODY-TM-001_0411_000.pdf

http://www.showmetheparts.com/BIN/documents/DEKA/Valve Regulated Batteries (VRLA).pdf

http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/manual.pdf

Should I pay extra for an AGM Battery?

It depends. If you are going to be winching, camping where you draw down the battery a lot, or have other special needs, then the extra cost is potentially worth it. For regular starting, they don't serve much purpose in these trucks.

It is worth noting that AGM's are being used more and more in new cars which put much higher draws on batteries while sitting and before starting. As a result many new cars will draw down the battery deeper than older cars and the extra cycle life of an AGM helps.

Who makes AGM batteries?

There are three large AGM manufactures- Odyssey, East-Penn- Deka Intimidator, and Optima (Johnson Controls). It is worth noting that the first two are U.S. manufactured, Optimas are now manufactured in Mexico and there have been many complaints of quality since production for the Optimas was moved.

The market is changing rapidly for AGM's with demand increasing new products are being released. Northstar, a Swedish company is pushing distribution in the U.S. (batteries are manufactured in the U.S.), distributing batteries directly as Northstar, through Exide as Nothstar, and (Shh) through batteries plus as the X2Power. Johnson Controls announced in July 2012 that they will start producing flat plate AGM batteries (as opposed to the Exide Orbirtal) in the U.S.. The new batteries will be produced in a new U.S. plant capable of producing 6 million AGM batteries a year. It is unclear if they will be under the Varta name or another brand.

Do I need to take special care of an AGM battery?

No. The only caution that needs to be exercised is if you use a battery charger. In that case, you must use one that has a specific AGM charge mode to prevent overcharging. AGM batteries are very sensitive to being overcharged. Also, unlike lead acid batteries, a deeply discharged AGM battery may need a larger charger to get the charge process started.

Does an AGM Battery have a different voltage than a lead acid battery?

Slightly. The resting voltage of a fully charged lead acid battery is approximately 12.7 volts. A fully charged AGM battery will have a resting voltage of 12.8-12.9 volts.

Is my current alternator/voltage regulator compatible with an AGM battery?

Yes. As set forth in the Deka whitepaper on AGM batteries, this maximum voltage is between 13.9 volts for temps over 120f and 15.4 volts for temperatures under 40f. These voltage limits are very close to typical lead acid batteries. Unless there is something wrong with your alternator, it will not harm an AGM battery, in which case it would almost certainly have also damaged a traditional lead acid battery.

It is worth noting that some newer cars (specifically BMW's in the last 10 years) actually have a programmable alternator. When you replace the battery in these cars, you set the type of battery (lead acid or AGM) and reserve capacity. The charging system then tracks the age and type of battery and its charging of it to maximize battery life. This combined with the fact that BMW places batteries under the seat or in the trunk lead to regular reports of batteries lasting about 6 years.

What specs should I look for in a battery?

Three- Warranty, Cold Cranking Amps (CCA), and Reserve Capacity.

Cold Cranking Amps tell you the current a battery will put out for 30 seconds at 0F without dropping below 7.2 volts. Don't get too hung up on this number for the 80, the factory batteries were in the 450-625CCA range depending on the market.

Reserve Capacity- This tells you the number of minutes at 80F the battery can put out 25 amps before it is drawn down to 10.5 volts. The higher the number, the longer you can run accessories and still expect your vehicle to start. Personally, I put much more importance on this number than CCA.

How long should my battery last?

It depends. Heat kills batteries. For every 22F above 77F you can expect your battery to last half as long. Many people are mistaken that cold kills batteries. This incorrect. What will often happen is the heat will cause a decrease in capacity which then shows up when it gets cold and extra demand is put on the battery. If your battery has removable caps, check it once in a while to make sure there is sufficient water, especially if you live in a hot climate.

Sears has some great charts in their faq that give an estimate of how long batteries last in different parts of the U.S. I have attached the photos from the chart at the end of this.

How often should I replace my battery:

I agree with Sears on this which says: "Even if your battery appears fine, you should replace it before the 4th winter season of use. Cold temperatures can reduce your battery's ability to perform at its peak." Modern batteries don't slowly die, they just fail to work one day leaving you stranded. A failing battery also puts more stress on an alternator which can cause premature failure. I replace my batteries every four years, trying to stretch an extra year to save $20-40 on the life of the battery isn't worth it to me.

Environmental/Nationalistic/Religious Comments (I have put these here in the interest of full disclosure because some of the below information is important to people in their purchase decisions)

Note that the majority, if not all of Johnson Controls lead acid batteries (which include Interstate, Die Hard, Duralast, etc.) are now made in Mexico. While I personally don't have an issue with foreign products, I do have concerns that there have been articles concerning lead pollution (and the resulting harm to workers and their families) from improper recycling near these plants.

Exide only has plants in the U.S., so all of their batteries are U.S. made. They also state that they do not export used batteries to Mexico and perform all recycling in the U.S.

If it says East-Penn, it is made in the U.S.

For those that wish to support a Christian focused distributor (I am Jewish so I have no stake in the game), Interstate is privately owned fundamental Christian company that supports Christian organizations.


What battery do you recommend?

For standard use, the Autozone Gold 27F for $109. It provides 710CCA and 165min of reserve capacity. The identical battery is also available as the Sears Diehard Gold 27F southern for $125, or the Interstate MTP-27F for a street price of about $125. Personally, I have used the Costco Group 35 batteries for more than 8 years without a problem. If you want a reliable inexpensive battery and aren't worried about having a large battery, the Costco Group 35 is a great value.

If purchasing a U.S. made battery is important, try to find a local Deka dealer and purchase a 24F or 27F battery from them. Exide batteries are also made in the U.S. I personally ended up with a rebadged Deka 24F (labeled Duracell) for $127 that has 800CCA, 115RC and a three year warranty.

If you want a big battery for not a lot of money and are willing to do a little work, get a Group 65. You will need to trim the battery box to allow the cables to be pulled through to reach the terminals and you will need to install a new clamp to properly secure the battery (a search on this forum will bring up what one member did for about $10). You can get a group 65 from Costco for $70 which offers 850CCA and 150 min of reserve capacity for $70. Sears and Autozone offer the same battery for about $135, and you can get the Group 65 AGM from Autozone for about $160.

If you camp a lot, have a fridge or other accessories that draw your battery down and then recharge it, I would suggest getting the Deka Intimidator Group 34R (750CCA and 120min reserve capacity), which is available under the Autozone Duralast Platinum AGM label for $144 or the Sears Diehard Advanced Gold for $154. Note that Sears often has sales with their batteries 10% off. Also, the Deka is available under other labels, but I have named two easily available national companies that have them.

If you are winching and need the ultimate in both current capability and deep discharge capacity, you now have a few choices:

1) The Odyssey 31M, or better yet the Sears Diehard Platinum 31M which is the same battery for less money ($279 but frequently on sale). The Odyssey is rated at 1150CCA with a 205 min reserve capacity. (3 year warranty because it is a marine battery)

2) Northstar 27F from Batteries Plus as the X2Power. How about a big battery that drops in without any cable or hold down mods and has a 5 year replacement warranty!!!! 930CCA and a 190 min reserve capacity for $275.

3) Northstar 31 from Batteries Plus as the X2Power. 1150CCA with a 220 min reserve capacity for $325.

Happy cranking and I hope this helps.
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Just replaced my 10 year old Die Hard Platinum (24F CCA710 R110) with the Batteries Plus X2. I bought the one for the 93-97 Land Cruiser 4.5 Canada/Option and couldn't be happier. It has 960CCA and 190R. Batteries Plus Bulbs checked my battery and charging system, for free, and dropped it right in in about 10 minutes.
Because I live high in the Sierras and do lots of remote camping I wanted one of the power house batteries. Was planning to modify the box and cables for the big 65 Interstate or Die Hard Platinum (DHP). Yet, Friday the truck barely started so I needed to act fast so as not get stranded.
Living rural I couldn't find either 65 or even a 825CCA 140R Die Hard Gold in Reno (about 1.5 hours away) as they were out of stock until mid April. My closest option was Sacramento nearly a 4 hour round trip. Then I would have had to modify the box on the road or pay the core charge and recycle locally which would have a fee associated I'm sure.
Found the Batteries Plus 25 minutes away in Carson City NV with the Canada/Option correct LC size and right positive post in stock. The best part it has a 60 month no-prorated guarantee. That's 2 years more than the other choices. Ended up being only $10.00 more than the DHP.
Nearly the same high output-No mod to cables, hold down or box. Never thought I would feel so good paying nearly 300 bucks for a battery...

 

[BayouFJ80]

One of the most precise non BS and informative threads that applies to ALL of us. MANY thanks @cary !