ARB air locker and 3rd member carnage

[jynx]

Unbolt the caps and pull the carrier and see if there is any wear along the inside of the housing. Also inspect the housing itself. The wear on the back of the carrier would suggest that there is something either on the housing or the carrier itself that is making contact with the spinning parts. See the metal wear marks along the outer edges of the reinforcing ribs on the back of the carrier? You got something in there causing contact, the bolt heads stick out farther, so they took the bulk of the hits. The apparent even wear around all 6 faces would suggest that whatever it was would hit and turn each bolt to the next flat for a hit and turn on the next go around.

Be interested to see what you find when you get it broken down more.

 

[Pin_Head]

Go back to imgur, the mudders got what I was getting at. [emoji106]

Where?

I thought you meant you wanted to be educated.

 

[Lexonroids]

Where?

I thought you meant you wanted to be educated.

Imgur is a photo website where people comment on images off of reddit. Anyway, not important. I thought you were being a dickhead not a pinhead. My bad. Carry on.

 

[Zimbwanabe]

This is why I like Ausies in the back. Never had a problem? Five different Toyotas.

 

[Rusco]

I've installed a LOT of ARB's (and others) and have always used either some type of chemical thread locker or mechanical locking devices on the ring gear bolts. Matter o' fact, I did so on all my gear/diff work, and I did it for a living the last 10 years of my career (Yes, I might be considered "old"). I've been into other people's work and seen the kind of carnage depicted here, and it could always be traced back to no locking tabs, no locking agent, or sometimes, bolts ruined on install, or any combination of the preceding. Sometimes the bolts were stripped, sometimes cross-threaded, sometimes over-torqued and stretched. Sometimes it was simply a matter of using the original OEM bolts, instead of the bolts that come in every diff install kit. There's a reason the OEMs, Toyota included, say not to re-use the ring-gear bolts.
I have however never seen a failure like yours that was the fault of the diff, ARB or otherwise.
It's also my opinion that the damage to the bolt heads occurred as they backed out.

 

[inkpot]

This is why I like Ausies in the back. Never had a problem? Five different Toyotas.

I would consider loose ring gear mounting bolts to be an "install failure" as opposed to a "locker problem".

 

[Mandrake]

Well *******... I haven't seen that one before.

 

[Qball]

I would consider loose ring gear mounting bolts to be an "install failure" as opposed to a "locker problem".

Well the Aussie doesn't have any bolts........


In all seriousness I totally agree that it's not a locker problem. But one of the mudder here did bring up a good point: the auto locker is so transparent and so reliable it's actually better to have an auto locker in the back and a selectable locker up front. Because for what ever reason the selectable fails(air line of wiring) you still got rear locker and it can get you out from middle of no where.

 

[Dave 2000]

It is a few years back now but I am sure the bolts on my ARB's front and rear had locking tabs? Admittedly it was in a Land Rover and things are expected to fall off anyway and you do what you can to help keep things in place, but there were none on yours?

regards

Dave

 

[Tools R Us]

The metal "locking tabs" have been known it break, especially when reused, loose metal parts floating around can cause damage. Most builders discard them in favor of thread locker, well proven to be more reliable.

 

[Dave 2000]

I never had any issues with the ARB's apart from the odd air leak, pulled the diffs a couple of times over two or three years with competition use, never broke one, the locking tabs were there and I wondered if different builders/vehicles used them and other not? If the tabs were left off and there was no sign of thread lock on there perhaps it was an install error?

regards

Dave

 

[Phildoh]

Pull the other third and re-torque everything, loctite included check and see that it's "OK" (as in not DD worthy, but looks like it'll hold up) and slap it in a milkcrate as a getcha-home/back spare. Find a parting out rig with factory lockers and you're back. Didn't see, aftermarket r&p's?

 

[Lexonroids]

The ARB was not the issue. I have been in touch with Phil at ARB USA, and he has been very helpful. After going over everything and stripping the axle to it's bones, this is what I think has happened.

Both hubs have had a full service very recently. I mean within the last 1500 miles or so. Understand that I have nothing to back what I think up. This is all hypothetical except for the bit about the spotty install of the ARB.

Anyone that knows this rig and saw it on EBAY knows that it was built initially by another ih8Mudder. This rig was built very well and I have no problems with it other than the obvious. I also do not imply any fault on them for the issues I am having. I believe that the previous owner (the one that bought it from the original builder.) Thought there was an issue with the axle hubs and had them rebuilt. When that changed nothing, I think that he got rid of it.

The noises that I experienced were very intermittent initially. This is why I also thought it was the passenger side hub. Which makes sense being that is the short axle side. I think this is what happened to the person that owned it before me, as well. I just don't think he went the extra mile and tore into the 3rd member.

As it is I had just bought the rig, and tearing s*** apart never did scare me much. After getting everything torn apart and cleaning everything, by the way there where so many metal shavings in the axle housing and bottom of the diff case, I think the last owners mechanic might have been a stripper.

All jokes aside. I have got everything spotless and glitter free.

So that brings us to the ARB install issues. Everyone that has said that thread locker was probably not used is correct. There is no trace of thread locker in this unit what so ever. I will also be tearing the rear diff apart and going through it.

So like so many have said, it was the installer and not the unit.

So when everything is said and done the truck is going to cost me a grand more than I actually paid. Not concerned because you couldn't build one as nice as this one for the amount I paid for it.

I will give another update when I here from my differential specialist. And no his name is not Porsche or Mercedes and he has no brass poles in his shop.

 

[Lexonroids]

So I got the 3rd member installed and axle's rebuilt. My ring and pinion guy went through the 3rd member and locker. Other than the ring gear flange having some of it's holes wallowed out, it was fine. Luckily the ring and pinion had no issues or damage. I got ridiculously lucky in that.

Everything has been back together and running for about 200 miles now. No problems.

 

[akarilo]

Not an ARB, but a similar issue. Mines a factory e-locker/ 5.29 which was built by one of the most renowned builders around. I recently experienced a "thumping" noise up front, and then a catastrophic "pop" Took it apart and discovered that all 8 (carrier bolts) backed out, despite being torqued to the specified 40ft. lbs. The FSM does not call for any thread locker on these particular bolts. The loose carrier halves resulted in severe ring deflection and a bunch of missing teeth. I've sourced new bolts and am going to try it again with loctite to boot. Might even spot weld the carrier halves, as the spiders rarely need servicing. With the last build I received from this builder, I feel like it will survive this time if the carrier doesn't separate. Good luck with your project.

P.S, you can always use the folding tab washers on the next go round.

 

[Lexonroids]

Not an ARB, but a similar issue. Mines a factory e-locker/ 5.29 which was built by one of the most renowned builders around. I recently experienced a "thumping" noise up front, and then a catastrophic "pop" Took it apart and discovered that all 8 (carrier bolts) backed out, despite being torqued to the specified 40ft. lbs. The FSM does not call for any thread locker on these particular bolts. The loose carrier halves resulted in severe ring deflection and a bunch of missing teeth. I've sourced new bolts and am going to try it again with loctite to boot. Might even spot weld the carrier halves, as the spiders rarely need servicing. With the last build I received from this builder, I feel like it will survive this time if the carrier doesn't separate. Good luck with your project.

P.S, you can always use the folding tab washers on the next go round.

This go around is all buttoned up. I was very lucky that my Ring and Pinion suffered no damage. Although the diff oil when drained looked like it ate a stripper. So much glitter, so much...

I was terrified at first. I am still amazed how I lost all 10 bolts out of it. As soon as I noticed the sound and difference n drive I started limping her to a spot I could stop.

 

[Qball]

This go around is all buttoned up. I was very lucky that my Ring and Pinion suffered no damage. Although the diff oil when drained looked like it ate a stripper. So much glitter, so much...

I was terrified at first. I am still amazed how I lost all 10 bolts out of it. As soon as I noticed the sound and difference n drive I started limping her to a spot I could stop.

Hope all the threads are ok in the locker, from the picture some of the bolts were stripped.

 

[Lexonroids]

Hope all the threads are ok in the locker, from the picture some of the bolts were stripped.

The bolts actually go through the flange that is attached to the locker, and then into the ring gear. Although the flange had some of the holes that were wallowed out. The differential guy told me that everything is with in spec and he torqued and used thread locker on it.

I flat out asked him if he would use the flange in his own vehicle or should I replace it. He told me that he would have no problem using it in his vehicle as is.

This guy is really good so I went with it.

 

[ewillis]

This came from an ARB article on Expo...may explain your issue

With the increasing market for high-level racing differentials, they launch the CE project. In short, CE is the development of racing differentials, such as the 9-inch Ford, that will withstand the brutal environment of Ultra4 buggies. CE units utilize a bulletproof (and very expensive) case and redesigned bearing surfaces that energize, or drive gears into their seats. Bongard said, “The force exerted on an Ultra4 differential is similar to someone trying to pull the gears out of the case with a 3-foot-long, 700-horsepower pry bar.” Another development that has come from the CE research is the use of locking tabs on ring gear bolts (competition 9-inch Ford diffs only). Under severe use, the bolts holding the ring gear to the case can work themselves loose. The new locking tab eliminates this risk.

So what is next for the eight wonder of the world? Although the air locker was originally designed for just a handful of applications, ARB now has its flagship product, which is available in more than 80 countries around the world, available for more than 100 vehicle models. While most of us simply know the ARB dash toggle makes you go, we thought you might want to know just what happens when you slide your backside into the seat, get into a jam, and hit “the button.” arbusa.com or arb.com.au 01-425-264-1391