Builds A New 55 Owner Intro (cgn1976 thread) (2 Viewers)

[RUSH55]

Maybe not? I’m looking through the Haynes right now trying to find mention of an intermediate shaft and there’s nothing.

Now I’m curious as to what vacuum port you’re hooked to and how much vacuum it’s pulling.
Something mentioned that sounds similar to your issue -

“The servo is operated either by the brake pedal pushrod or by movement of the master cylinder piston, and uses the vacuum supply tapped from the intake manifold to provide additional braking effort. Should the vacuum supply fail or the servo suffer an internal fault, the brakes can be operated in the normal way, but greater pedal load will be required.”
I.E. if there’s a loss of vacuum somewhere to or at the booster, then the pedal will get stiff. If you have a vacuum gauge, you can see how much vacuum going to the booster and also how much the booster is holding.

 

[Cgn1976]

I think I just figured it out! Going the replace what I replaced already route till I can hopefully find the problem part has me to the booster. Looking at the new one in there and comparing to what I'm trying to order, it looks like the one I bought was for 75+ with front discs.

Proper booster for drums ordered. Looks to be a week out. Man I hope this is it!

 

[scrapdaddy]

 

[RUSH55]

Post us some pics, @Cgn1976 ,of the differences of the boosters and the pin going from booster to master like shown in the video, if you can. The pin in Scrappy’s video is what I was thinking, but I can’t find mention of one or a pic of one in any of this book’s exploded diagrams.

Not sure why a disc booster wouldn’t work as long as that center pin was the correct length.

 

[scrapdaddy]

Pablo's in post #491.

 

[Cgn1976]

So I may have spoke too soon on the booster being wrong. I knew I got it from city racer and when you Google FJ55 booster only the later one comes up. Thought I ordered wrong, however ona deep dive into the website, I ordered the right one.

Drum Brake Booster for Land Cruiser FJ40 / FJ45 / FJ55 / BJ40

Brand new brake booster for Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40, FJ45, FJ55, and BJ40 with 4 wheel drum brakes: 7/'70 to 9/'75 U.S. spec models, and non-U.S. models through '84.There is no longer a need to search out junk yards for a 20+ year old substitute booster that doesn't fit your vehicle. This high...

www.cityracerllc.com

That's said, I unhooked and sealed up the booster vac today and got a nice quad workout driving around for 15-20 and I can say this, the pedal never changed. It didn't get harder and higher like it's been doing. It obviously felt different with no booster but the issue I've been dealing with didn't hapoen. It also ran just a little better, which has me thinking vac leak in the booster or line. New booster is on the way.

Here's what's in there now (city racer booster and 2nd MC from C.O.

 

[RUSH55]

Now I’d say that’s the kind of progress we’re looking for.

 

[Cgn1976]

Right? Looks like the booster is coming from PHX so I'll have it tommorow. Even though I know the vac line it self doesn't have a leak, I feel like it could be a tad looser than it should be even with the clamp cranked down on the nipple at the intake. Gonna try one size smaller hose today and see if that's part of it too.

 

[PabloCruise]

Man, I swore I took pictures when I pulled the residual valve out of the front circuit of my '74 MC, but I do not see them in my thread.

Here is a link: Residual Valve Removal - Land Cruiser Tech from IH8MUD.com - https://www.ih8mud.com/tech/residvalve.php

I did take pictures: Builds - POTM - March, 2014 - Javelina By Pablo Cruise - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/potm-march-2014-javelina-by-pablo-cruise.798519/page-10#post-9230738

 

[PabloCruise]

Pablo's in post #491.

This one? A New 55 Owner Intro (cgn1976 thread) - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/a-new-55-owner-intro-cgn1976-thread.1221613/page-25#post-13807898

 

[Cgn1976]

A minor update. The new booster came today but didn't get to that. Quick delivery for ebay! I did get the new shoe spring kits yesterday and put those in before work today. I was thinking maybe the old ones didn't have quite enough push back on the new cylinders, especially after warming up? They felt fine to me but the new ones did feel a tad stronger.

Anyway, I noticed a little bit of a difference in that when it warmed up the pedal rose and got harder but never got rrally tight and all the way to the top, even after an hour. Basically it never locked up and was always drivable...now why it's still changing as it warms up...well if it's not the booster, I'm lost again. Hoping to do that in the next few days.

The nice thing is with the extra MC and booster I was able to confirm the pin length I currently have set is pretty much right on. 25 adjustment a will do that I guess!

 

[scrapdaddy]

I'm sure sorry you're going through all this. It's easy for someone like me to armchair quarterback, but a lot of us have gone down the "can't adjust the brakes right" road. There's so many reasons for all the different brake problems, hopefully you see an end to this. Somebody out has had the exact problem as you, we just need to find him.

 

[RUSH55]

Still think you need to check the booster with a vacuum pump

 

[Cgn1976]

Almost bought a vac gauge the other night. Think I'll grab one when I do the booster. And I appreciate everyone's input. I'm obviously new to this and would be grasping at internet threads without it.

The 40 thread I linked a few pages back really seemed like the closest thing to what I've got going. He ended up replacing everything including the hard lines. I just don't get how this never happened until I put the new booster and MC in. Brakes were great and even still working when the booster started going. Just got some wooshing sound and the pedal feel changed here and there.

I've been through so many damn iterations I have to go back and read my own thread to even remember it all! That said it just seems like it has to be one of the new parts I put on...and I know it's not the MC! Already did a 2nd one of those!
I also feel like the all new 8 cylinders aren't the issue either because this happened before I replaced all of those but after the new booster and MC....process of elimination down to the last item. Fingers crossed!!!!

Again thanks to everyone for chiming in! I appreciate and clearly need the guidance! Hopefully someday some other poor noob can learn from this mess!

 

[Cgn1976]

Dare I say it...I think I solved my problem. New booster in, brakes adjusted all around this am. Just drove 45 min with ZERO change in the pedal!

I'm convinced it was the first new booster I got from City Racer. Anyone know how they are to deal with on a bad part... especially one that's been in for a month?

Pedal is a little low so gonna play with the pin a bit, although I have to say I actually did the clay measurement trick and had it in spec
(.15-.3") before it went in. Gonna push some more fluid through today too, maybe a little air in there still.

Finally a forward step today! What a friggin ordeal!!!!!

 

[scrapdaddy]

 

[RUSH55]

Woooo!
Hallelujah!!

 

[Cgn1976]

And of course City Racer it pushing back on this and saying it's the pin adjustemt. We've gone back and forth a few times and they are being defensive and accusatory and a little condescending. Anyone else deal with them before? Not buying from them again! I'm actually gonna ship them back their s*** booster on my dime so they can see that this is not a pin adjustemnt. I literally matched the pin adjustment from their booster to the new one that went in. Instantly problem gone, but it coulldn't be the booster they sold me. I just fired off a nice little cloesout email, probably fueled by a month of frustration! Enjoy the read in the my next post

 

[Cgn1976]

from City Racer just now:

You must use the tool to get the proper result. This is in all of the mechanic's training. We've seen this before. A customer adamantly insists it's not the adjustment. We send him a new booster. Same result. Then they take it to a mechanic to make the adjustment and everything works perfectly. A booster is a dumb device. It doesn't drag brakes if properly adjusted. A faulty booster will give you a hard pedal.



City Racer LLC


My reply, after a few other back and forths explaining the issue:

Hi again City Racer Inbox Team,



Thanks for the tip, and I understand your position as a company who’s been bitten by this one before, however the fact the that the new booster, adjusted exactly the same as your booster, immediately solved the problem seems like pretty strong evidence that it was part of the problem. Not to mentioned the same issue happened regardless of where the pin was adjusted (long, short, or right on spec). I’m willing to bet if I took the truck out and adjusted the pin out of its current adjustment the pedal feel would change, but the problem I’ve had with tightening pedal over time will not rear its head. In fact I’m going to do just that to prove that’s not the issue.



And to be 100% clear, the EXACT issue I’m describing is what you’ve seen before with improper pin adjustment in the past? The pedal stiffens changes as it warms up? The brakes are working and adjusted and driving perfectly, then 15 minutes into the drive the pedal starts to get harder and higher until it eventually locks the brakes up? I described pretty clearly the way the pin will affect pedal action. I learned that by trail and error 25 times over…you’re telling me you’ve had customers have this exact scenario I’m describing? Perhaps you can explain how the “simple booster device” would cause that issue based on a pin being adjusted wrong and how this adjustment could be too long, too short, or at spec and still cause the same issue…and then go away when replaced.



Look, this was not a one time thing. This was the same deal for a month, with countless adjustments…over and over and over. Your booster out, new one in, problem solved. Instantly! This is not you shipping a new booster to someone and them having the same issue with the new one. This seems like you trying to use that example as justification that it couldn’t be your part that’s the problem. This was a replace it and it’s solved scenario! Hard to argue with that. Feel free to read through my journey with this. The last 4 pages lay it out pretty clearly.



A New 55 Owner Intro (cgn1976 thread) - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/a-new-55-owner-intro-cgn1976-thread.1221613/





I had lots of folks who know a lot more than me helping me through this, and nobody thought much of the booster being the problem when I said I put a new one in to start. The reason I went and started with all the other parts first, was as you describe, it’s a simple device and this behavior would cause anyone to think of lots of other potential issues first. I went round and round and did every other thing in the brake system, other than the hard lines…and that was next if this didn’t solve it. All I know is yours out, new one in. Problem gone.



Truth be told, I didn’t expect you do anything for me. Sadly, your reputation precedes you. I will however do something for you. I will be sending this part back to you, on my dime. Perhaps you can send it to your manufacturer for some QA. Or resell it and watch the next poor guy go through the same thing I just did. The idea that there couldn’t be a bad one in the batch is not that crazy. Companies build this into their plans when they make parts. Nobody makes 100% perfect parts 100% of the time. Perhaps there’s a tiny leak in the diaphragm that’s causing some weird behavior once it heats up or generates vacuum over a period of time? It passed internal QA but doesn’t work right in the real world. I don’t know. What I do know is your part caused me an awful lot of frustration time, energy and money and the moment I put a new one in with the EXACT SAME ADJUSTEMT, the problem miraculously went away.



So be on the lookout for a package. Maybe once you see I’m right you’ll step up and do the right thing, although I’m not expecting much. In the meantime I’ll be sharing my experience with all the wonderful folks who helped me through this on the forum. They can all decide for themselves how to feel about it.



Sincerely,



A disappointed and former customer,

 

[Racer65]

We stand behind our products, and we have a process for handling customer issues. If we never had the opportunity to provide support, or if the customer refuses to cooperate with the advised procedure and expects us to accept blame, we are not positioned for a successful outcome.

To address your point, yes we've seen the exact issue as you described. Countless adjustments without a tool is not the procedure given by the FSM. If you scroll up to post #503, someone posted a video showing the same tool as suggested in our installation guide.