94 delayed cranking. Starter, ignition switch, or other? (1 Viewer)

[Malleus]

My issue was not the big (hot 12v) wire being corroded. It was signal wire from the ignition switch not being adequate sometimes. It could be the small wire itself, the switch or the 12v to the ignition switch. The Ford solenoid takes 12v directly from the battery to the solenoid switch connector (small wire). As long as the ignition switch signal wire has enough V to actuate the Ford solenoid, all is golden. So far so good.

Just reading through this thread for the first time. Am I correct that the addition of the Ford solenoid is meant to "fix" the lack of current capacity in the wiring from the key switch to the starter relay? Or is the consensus that the OEM Toyota starter relay is somehow inadequate?

 

[Malleus]

from the toyota wire harness repair guide:

View attachment 3315313

it doesn't list a Male matching part, but i'm sure a Yazaki or Sumitomo number covers it. i just haven't found it yet.

update: is this it? Home » Shop » Connectors / Harnesses » Sumitomo » 1-way TS187 Connector Plug Kit For Toyota Starter Applications 90980-11400 - https://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/product_info.php/products_id/4322

FWIW, when the WHRM doesn't list a pair of connector housings, it's because the connected device, in this case the starter, is fitted with the mating connector, and the opposite side (that is listed) is used in only the one position. The other engine sensors (e.g., knock, temp, O2) are like this, too.

There would be OEM numbers for the mating connectors, but since Toyota never bought them, they didn't make it into the EPC. There's likely a cross listing, because Toyota would have had to give it to the the vendors supplying the "connected" parts, so they could get the other end from Sumitomo, or whoever, but that's in the bottom of someone's desk drawer, most likely. If it hasn't been round filed.

 

[JoeCova]

Just reading through this thread for the first time. Am I correct that the addition of the Ford solenoid is meant to "fix" the lack of current capacity in the wiring from the key switch to the starter relay? Or is the consensus that the OEM Toyota starter relay is somehow inadequate?

Basically yes, not necessarily a lack of current capacity but a lack of current in general which doesn't provide enough "juice" to the starter solenoid to fire up the engine. The Ford relay or Napa ST80 or standard relay basically just function as a switch to send direct battery current to the OEM starter solenoid. The ignition wire just needs to send enough power for the relay or Ford solenoid to open.

 

[Malleus]

Basically yes, not necessarily a lack of current capacity but a lack of current in general which doesn't provide enough "juice" to the starter solenoid to fire up the engine. The Ford relay or Napa ST80 or standard relay basically just function as a switch to send direct battery current to the OEM starter solenoid. The ignition wire just needs to send enough power for the relay or Ford solenoid to open.

OK, but that's what the OEM starter relay does. Is the feeling that it's not functioning properly, in which case, why isn't the solution to replace it, or is it the harness connection, in wich case why isn't the right fix to replace the wire? Or am I missing something completely?

 

[JoeCova]

Side note I did find the male connectors. Make sure you select Male as it defaults to Female. Shipping takes a while as they ship direct from China..

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802944786180.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.5.389118026JSCez&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

 

[John McVicker]

@JoeCova hit it on the head. Also see post 78 @malteserunner for a cheap, quick & easy long term fix.

 

[JoeCova]

OK, but that's what the OEM starter relay does. Is the feeling that it's not functioning properly, in which case, why isn't the solution to replace it, or is it the harness connection, in wich case why isn't the right fix to replace the wire? Or am I missing something completely?

We dont have starter relays, its a 12v ignition wire direct to the strater solenoid built onto the starter

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS]

Just reading through this thread for the first time. Am I correct that the addition of the Ford solenoid is meant to "fix" the lack of current capacity in the wiring from the key switch to the starter relay? Or is the consensus that the OEM Toyota starter relay is somehow inadequate?

Exactly. The wire from the switch doesn't give the juice to engage the solenoid fully. Could be the switch, the wire to or from the switch. Done many of these Ford solenoid mods and still no issues at all.

 

[Malleus]

We dont have starter relays, its a 12v ignition wire direct to the strater solenoid built onto the starter

You are exactly correct. I had in my mind the circuit opening relay.

 

[Inukshuk]

Exactly. The wire from the switch doesn't give the juice to engage the solenoid fully. Could be the switch, the wire to or from the switch. Done many of these Ford solenoid mods and still no issues at all.

"

Could be the switch, the wire to or from the switch.

"
AND could be the terminal at the end of the wire into the solenoid. I just replaced the terminal at the end of the wire into the solenoid and the starter sounds stronger than ever. (I have replaced the ignition switch. I have not done anything to the wire from the ignition switch to the terminal.)

 

[93yotasr5]

I’ve been having some of these issues intermittently over the last couple years. It has now gotten to the point where I have an issue almost every time I start my rig. I have replaced the ignition switch, starter, grounds and the positive cable to the starter. When I go to start it, I get a click. Sometimes I will have to try and start it 3-5 times for it to turn over and sometimes it will be 30-40 times before it starts. It clicks every time I turn the key over leading me to think it’s the starter but it’s been replaced twice already. Could it be the neutral safety switch or does it sound like there will be a Ford starter solenoid in my future?

 

[JoeCova]

I’ve been having some of these issues intermittently over the last couple years. It has now gotten to the point where I have an issue almost every time I start my rig. I have replaced the ignition switch, starter, grounds and the positive cable to the starter. When I go to start it, I get a click. Sometimes I will have to try and start it 3-5 times for it to turn over and sometimes it will be 30-40 times before it starts. It clicks every time I turn the key over leading me to think it’s the starter but it’s been replaced twice already. Could it be the neutral safety switch or does it sound like there will be a Ford starter solenoid in my future?

Probably the same issue as us where you might need a relay or a solenoid to help out.

Easiest way to diagnose it is to make sure it's off and in Park, unplug the ignition wire at the starter (The little connector one) turn the key to "ON" then use a jumper wire that you can use to touch the positive side of the battery terminal and the starter solenoid connector. If it fires right up then the issue is that the starter isnt getting enough juice to crank.

Below is a jumper wire I use for testing and also a good backup in case something fails. I just used 6ft of 12AWG with an OEM starter connector on one side and generic terminal ring on the other. Plug into the start and with the key "ON" touch the battery and it should start.

 

[Inukshuk]

I’ve been having some of these issues intermittently over the last couple years. It has now gotten to the point where I have an issue almost every time I start my rig. I have replaced the ignition switch, starter, grounds and the positive cable to the starter. When I go to start it, I get a click. Sometimes I will have to try and start it 3-5 times for it to turn over and sometimes it will be 30-40 times before it starts. It clicks every time I turn the key over leading me to think it’s the starter but it’s been replaced twice already. Could it be the neutral safety switch or does it sound like there will be a Ford starter solenoid in my future?

"AND could be the terminal at the end of the wire into the solenoid."

@JoeCova 's test rig is perfect to diagnose!

 

[slow95z]

Below is a jumper wire I use for testing and also a good backup in case something fails. I just used 6ft of 12AWG with an OEM starter connector on one side and generic terminal ring on the other. Plug into the start and with the key "ON" touch the battery and it should start.

man thats great idea. i need to add one of those to the pile. i already have one made to test seat motors when doing the gears for people.

 

[JoeCova]

As a semi means of consolidation and thread update I will include a drawing from @Photoman from another thread as that is what we have described here and I dont have to make my own drawing.

This is essentially what people are doing with either a relay or solenoid. I wired mine like the image below with the exception of a 50amp fuse as I used a 15amp.

I wasn't completely sold on the Ford Starter Solenoid though it has been around since the 50s I questioned the quality given the number of Chinese duplicates and exceptionally low price point. While I know many have used them for years and swear by them I opted for a more expensive Elchin ST80.

I also did not want to cut or or splice the original factory connector so I sourced a male connector (like the one on the starter) from China (only source) that fits with the ignition wire to the starter. This setup allows me to retain the option of either plugging directly into the starter or the new starter solenoid/relay. I also have the option to jump the solenoid if there was ever an issue with the ignition wire or directly with the solenoid. Below are some photos of where I placed it and the wires and stuff I used. Note: I dislike the solenoid ground so will likely change how that is wired.

Link to the connector: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...st_main.5.389118026JSCez&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa. The part number seems to be 6189-0413.

Hope this helps.