94 delayed cranking. Starter, ignition switch, or other?

[Bryan E.]

In my opinion, it's adding a failure point and fixing a symptom rather than the cause.

These rigs are getting old enough that surprising amounts of oxidation can form on terminals, and contacts can become very worn. Those two factors lead to high resistance, which creates heat, which distorts connectors and melts insulation, exacerbating the issue.

I agree. I remember a guy restoring a nice 97. Had motor, transmission and axles all rebuilt. Entire interior redone, maybe new paint. He even had an entire new wiring harness installed. Seemed crazy but I can see the reason for the new harness if a person had the means to do this.

But now, I'm just trying to keep on enjoying my old LC.

Many here are very good mechanics. I do all that I can but electronics are not my strength. Hoping to figure this issue out soon.

I have a brand new battery. Just rebuilt the starter. Cleaned the wire contacts. I'll keep at it. Hoping to add the Ford Solinoid or the Painless Hot shot kit.

I've seen guys change part after part for a year or more and remember they finally added the Ford Solinoid and fixed it and many years later still had not had a reaccurance of the dreaded Click... no start.

 

[gummycarbs]

I agree. I remember a guy restoring a nice 97. Had motor, transmission and axles all rebuilt. Entire interior redone, maybe new paint. He even had an entire new wiring harness installed. Seemed crazy but I can see the reason for the new harness if a person had the means to do this.

Sure, but unless it was to cure some specific problems, that's just replacing parts for the sake of it, which is great if you're going after the "like new" experience. Personally, barring extreme circumstances (e.g. salt water exposure, fire), I've never seen the need to replace automotive wiring, at least on Japanese stuff since, say, the 1970s.

I've seen guys change part after part for a year or more and remember they finally added the Ford Solinoid and fixed it and many years later still had not had a reaccurance of the dreaded Click... no start.

That's fine, but before resorting to that, I would hope that everyone at least takes a can of DeoxIT and a brass wire brush to all the battery connection, grounds, plus DeoxIT and dielectric grease to every connector you can get to on the vehicle. Then I'd clean the Park/Neutral switch. Then I'd replace the ignition switch. Then I'd try bypassing the Park/Neutral switch (temporarily, for testing purposes only, of course).

I'm assuming that the Park/Neutral switch is the one on the side of the transmission, and it works like others that I've seen: an arm moving across several spring-loaded contacts. These spring-loaded contacts get gummed up and make poor electrical connections. The fix is to remove the switch, take it apart, and clean it with solvent and a tooth brush.

 

[Formulaonehd]

The Ford Solenoid is such an easy and inexpensive fix (under $30.00). Why not do it? You can replace the ignition switch and the wiring to and from the switch but chasing that down through the wiring looms sounds like a lot more work to me. Something else I mentioned about the 94 I worked on was that you might try holding the key in the start position. Sometimes after 5 seconds of holding it, it would turn over. It never left my son or I stranded. Did I mention I rebuilt the starter solenoid with new contacts/plunger, sometimes it clicked and sometimes it didn't, and replaced the ground/positive cable?

Been following this thread, I still have the same exact symptoms you had, I think i will go the ford solenoid issue. Did you have to do anything else except insert the solenoid into the system to give the starter contacts/solenoid a power boost?
I really think this is the underlying issue that the 80s wiring (brand new) had just enough V to crank the starter over but with age the wires loose a bit of continuity and thats all it takes to have this issue. When the wires are warm the issue is null. When they are cold and not started for a few days the issue returns. Hold the key turned for 5 secs and it fires up (F-rustrating!)

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS]

Been following this thread, I still have the same exact symptoms you had, I think i will go the ford solenoid issue. Did you have to do anything else except insert the solenoid into the system to give the starter contacts/solenoid a power boost?
(F-rustrating!)

Absolutely nothing. Good luck and reply back with your improved results.

 

[Godwin]

I agree that this is adding another possible failure point. In turn, a lot of vehicles use a starter relay, as it takes the load off the ignition switch, neutral safety switch, etc.

I used a Bosch style relay, rather than a Ford solenoid, since I think the solenoid is overkill, and the Bosch relay requires less from the original switches and wiring.

If, in the future, the relay were to fail, it would be simple to bypass and diagnose.

Since this mod, the engine cranks instantly, every time, when the ignition switch hits start.

I've installed the Bosch type 40 amp relay into two slush box Cruisers to cure the intermittent starting issues, '88 3FE and '97 1FZJ80. In both instances this has resolved the problem. I have been able to eliminate the starter as the issue with swapping a starter between the 3FE and a 2F; when in the 2F always strong starter cranking.

 

[jvazquez53]

I agree that this is adding another possible failure point. In turn, a lot of vehicles use a starter relay, as it takes the load off the ignition switch, neutral safety switch, etc.

I used a Bosch style relay, rather than a Ford solenoid, since I think the solenoid is overkill, and the Bosch relay requires less from the original switches and wiring.

If, in the future, the relay were to fail, it would be simple to bypass and diagnose.

Since this mod, the engine cranks instantly, every time, when the ignition switch hits start.

Had the Ford setup since at least 2007, so far never failed. Its been used here since the 60s. The key element is to use a really good quality relay. On mine, I used a OEM Ford relay.

 

[johnalex]

Has anyone taken pictures of where the different wires go into the starter motor?

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS]

Has anyone taken pictures of where the different wires go into the starter motor?

Here's a little more detail:
No pics but the original ignition switch wire (black with red stripe small wire located at the starter solenoid) gets cut and connected to a new wire that goes to the "S" terminal on the Ford solenoid. A 12 volt fused wire from the battery goes to one side of the new Ford solenoid and another new wire (on the other side of the Ford solenoid) then goes directly to the starter solenoid wire connector (where the black with red stripe wire was originally connected to). I used all 12 gauge black stranded primary wire. Btw, since this mod, the 94 is still starting perfectly every time.

 

[roncruiser]

I've had this same exact problem, both in my previously owned 90' 4Runner, and my current 94' LC. I installed the Painless Performance hot shot relay kit, problem solved.
Hot Shot KitDetails | Painless Performance

Yup! I went this route and never looked back. It's reliable, bullet proof and cheap.

 

[johnalex]

Here's a little more detail:
No pics but the original ignition switch wire (black with red stripe small wire located at the starter solenoid) gets cut and connected to a new wire that goes to the "S" terminal on the Ford solenoid. A 12 volt fused wire from the battery goes to one side of the new Ford solenoid and another new wire (on the other side of the Ford solenoid) then goes directly to the starter solenoid wire connector (where the black with red stripe wire was originally connected to). I used all 12 gauge black stranded primary wire. Btw, since this mod, the 94 is still starting perfectly every time.

Makes sense. Your approach effectively cuts out the original relay to make the more robust Ford relay do the job. Thanks.

 

[johnalex]

This is how I solved that problem. A Ford OEM solenoid, the way it was done in old VWs. Eight years later working great... View attachment 1455239

Did you cut the Blue/Red Stripe wire and connect your Yellow wire?

 

[SmokingRocks]

I’m contemplating just bypassing the start position and adding a push button... thoughts?

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS]

Well the Green Bean Introducing "The Green Bean" finally left me stranded the other day with a no start issue. I tried about everything including tapping a lot on the starter with a tire iron to no avail. Luckily the weather was nice and I was in a parking lot close to my home/shop. Anyway, this was the first time ever a Cruiser has left me stranded where I needed to get towed.
So, that afternoon I picked up a new starter from O'Reilly's Auto and had it back up and running. Next week I installed a Ford solenoid to eliminate any future not start issues associated with lack of power to the solenoid.

Here's a pic of the Ford solenoid and how it mounts on the steering shaft cover on a 94. It takes two longer bolts with two spacers and it bolts right up. No drilling needed and takes about an hour to install. Piece of mind is a great thing.

Just to clarify in case it's needed again. The ignition switch wire going to the starter solenoid (black or blue with a red stripe) goes to the S terminal (top right). The large terminal on the left has an inline fuse with 12 gauge wire going to the + post battery. The large terminal on the right has a 12 gauge wire that goes to the Toyota starter solenoid (black or blue with a red stripe) wire that plugs into the solenoid.

 

[SmokingRocks]

I've installed the Bosch type 40 amp relay into two slush box Cruisers to cure the intermittent starting issues, '88 3FE and '97 1FZJ80. In both instances this has resolved the problem. I have been able to eliminate the starter as the issue with swapping a starter between the 3FE and a 2F; when in the 2F always strong starter cranking.

I was thinking this as well. There really isn't a need to use a huge starter relay like the ford one for sending full signal voltage to the starter solenoid, a simple waterproof Bosch 40amp relay is more than enough.

 

[gbeltran]

View attachment 1561543
Here's a pic of the Ford solenoid and how it mounts on the steering shaft cover on a 94. It takes two longer bolts with two spacers and it bolts right up. No drilling needed and takes about an hour to install. Piece of mind is a great thing.

View attachment 1561544

Where did you get the USA assembled solenioid?

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS]

Where did you get the USA assembled solenioid?

New Ford Starter Car Truck Solenoid Relay 12V HeavyDuty SW3 - Assembled In USA | eBay

 

[gbeltran]

Thanks!!!!

 

[Nightbrew]

Yup! I went this route and never looked back. It's reliable, bullet proof and cheap.

The link shows a GM application. Is this the correct part for the cruisers? Also is this a replacement for the original or a bypass setup? Thanks

 

[roncruiser]

The link shows a GM application. Is this the correct part for the cruisers? Also is this a replacement for the original or a bypass setup? Thanks

Bypass old wiring. It'll work just as well.

 

[roncruiser]

Hey Roncruiser,

I have read your posts and others in the past about this problem. If memory serves me, you replaced a bunch of parts chasing this. Maybe it was another posters thread that I'm thinking about but are you saying this was your fix, to add the Ford relay or are you saying that you just replaced your wires to ignition switch and from there to starter?

I'm having same issue this week on my 94. New battery, just completely rebuilt the starter and now the dreaded click again.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

B

Very late reply...

Yeah, I chased it to almost what seemed like no end. Replacing parts and following poor leads to dead ends and endless frustration.

Bypassing the old wiring with a reliable relay setup is the fix to start with not end with.

Some have said, its adding another potential point of failure. I say it's bypassing a failed point with a relatively easy fix.