Builds '93 twin turbo build...(maybe) (1 Viewer)

[ElZilcho]

Greetings all,

This winter I will be replacing the turbos on my car and will have two turbochargers left over that, as luck would have it, map perfectly onto a 4.5L motor at 5000 rpm. So... twin turbo Toyota... right? The problem is that I have searched high and low and can only find threads referencing turbo/SC builds on post '95 OBDII rigs. The only thing I found about a '93 was a web article that simply said the '93-'94 1FZ's "don't respond as well" as the later motors but didn't give any figures or reasons. Can anyone tell me what the limiting factors are on the OBD1 1FZ's or point me to a good thread? If not, can anyone help me with a few questions?

1) What, if any, gains can I get from simply bolting on and plumbing turbos?

2) Will this "plug and play" like the SC on later trucks or will I need to add fueling?

3) Will the OBD1 ECU handle this or will it get confused and go to open loop fueling?

4) What are the limiting factors at play? Is it ECU/fueling, or is there something else I've missed.

5) Are there known solutions (cost) for any of these limiting factors?

6) Any other guidance would be appreciated.

I'm open to the possibility that this is a dumb idea. The end goal isn't to create a drag monster, but more about the fun of doing it and, maybe, pulling a trailer up a 7% grade at more than 35 MPH. If I can get something out of turbos, plumbing, and a bit of extra fueling, it's worth it. If I need to do an ECU swap (~$2000), it's probably not. Then again, it might be fun to take a 1FZ and put a modern ECU and digital variable ignition on it. Who knows, and thanks in advance.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

I don't think you'll do justice to a set of twins without significant ECU and fuelling upgrades...

 

[White Stripe]

You should be able to get 5 or so psi boost with a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. The air flow meter is why people don't boost older 1fz motors. But it can be done. Twins are a little unnecessary, I would just run a single.

 

[midfat]

Look to the Middle East, specifically UAE. Every manner of redonkulously boosted and blown 1FZ motors has been done.

 

[dogfishlake]

I do believe you can piggyback some engine management on an OBD1 80 whereas it's very tough to do an an OBD2 80, which is nice.

 

[Heckraiser]

twin turbos are so 90's. Even the supra guys mostly run a single turbo these days. It was also hard enough packaging one turbo into the LC, let alone two.

Sorry, that's all I have to contribute I don't know anything about how the obd1 engine management works.

 

[BlueCruiser84]

@scottryana

A dude on here turbo'd an fj62 so I don't see why it couldn't be done - Can you Turbo a 3FE? It's been a while since I read that thread. He used some kind of mechanical fuel regulator.

I hope someone chimes in and says it's cheap easy! I'd love to do it.

 

[PolarRunner]

It's cheap easy if you don't mind sacrificing reliability.

 

[retrofive]

It's cheap easy if you don't mind sacrificing reliability.

I find this true of women as well.

 

[slow95z]

my .02 is that the 1FZ either needs to be left stock or pulled out and replaced with something else. it is just a reliable engine that last, but when you try to pour power from it you kill the main reason to have one. if i am going to have something that i need to work on all the time it is going to be a nice LS setup. there are more on the road in my county right now than 1FZs left running in America. its cheap to work on, makes plenty of power, and everything i need is in stock.

 

[jamesurq]

As someone that's still going through a long and drawn out turbo build on a 94 - I just want you to know, good luck, we're all counting on you.

 

[scottryana]

Bolt on and plumbing turbo's on the earlier engines just doesn't seem to work. The engine control is different than the OBDII trucks which have a better closed/open loop. But that doesn't mean it is a situation that can't be overcome. You just have to think about the problem and come up with a solution that works for you.

For example CDan has had a TRD SC'd '93 for 100k miles, but he has put in place a water/meth injection system or maybe straight meth to account for the extra fuel needed and also to keep IAT's inline, but his system does use quite a bit of meth and you would need to understand the limitations of the system and drive responsibly if your meth tank was empty.

If I was going to tackle this project, without knowing what turbo's you are planning on using and not knowing what your power targets are, if I was going to stay under say a 50% hp increase I would look toward doing something like a 7th injector and O2 sensor modifier. If I was trying to go higher than that I would do a standalone engine management and wire it in parallel with the stock ECU.

 

[cruiserjunktion]

twin turbos are so 90's. It was also hard enough packaging one turbo into the LC, let alone two.

It all depends on your budget....

 

[Heckraiser]

2 banks of cylinders makes twin turbo a little more attractive

 

[scottryana]

Yeah and in that situation they have enough turbo for 3200hp, and Garrett doesn't make a turbo large enough for a single. But in the OP position he has two free turbo's coming available and the firing order of an inline 6 does make it very nice for a twin turbo or twin scroll setup. I agree a twin turbo setup isn't ideal since you have to have twice as much plumbing, etc. But if it is free and what the OP has, so I say go for it. I would just do two simply J's off the stock manifolds.

2 banks of cylinders makes twin turbo a little more attractive

 

[White Stripe]

There is a guy in the 70 series forum that put about 10lbs boost to his 3fe-which pretty much the same EFI design as your motor. It moves! As far as I know it worked well, he had little money into it. If your quiet, and listen closely, sometimes u can hear the turbo spool to this day.

 

[PolarRunner]

I find this true of women as well.

Savage, but true!


There's this...

 

[jfz80]

Be sure to make a kit......

 

[scottryana]

If they actually put this into a kit, it is basically exactly what I have.

They are using a 58mm journal bearing turbo I am using a 57mm ball bearing
They are using air to water just like my setup including the same intercooler (which is too small IMO)
They are using 550cc injectors just like I used
Same fuel pump I used


If this setup actually works with that ECU, it is a very drivable setup and should sell very well! I would back it down from the 18psi they show in the video for daily driving. I have run mine at 19-20psi, but I daily it around 14-16psi.

Savage, but true!


There's this...

 

[ElZilcho]

Thanks everyone!

You should be able to get 5 or so psi boost with a rising rate fuel pressure regulator.

Can you point me to anyone or a thread where this has been done succesfully?
5psi with a rising rate FPR sounds like it might be worth trying.

I do believe you can piggyback some engine management on an OBD1 80

Any recommendations on where to look for a piggyback ECU? Anything I've found that has enough resolution to run all the injectors gets into stand-alone ECU price territory.

twin turbos are so 90's.

I assume by this you mean TOTALLY AWESOME!! Thanks for chiming in. I've read your TurboClunker thread and am kind of using it as a guide, especially your parts list. My turbos have integral wastegates so I'm hoping I can do it even cheaper. I come at this from a similar philosophy... Maybe I can call mine the TurboBeater? Or the T-T-Toyota?

I find this true of women as well.

Agreed, which is while I will take two tiny ones over one big one... strictly speaking about turbos, of course.

my .02 is that the 1FZ either needs to be left stock or pulled out and replaced with something else.

Fundamentally, I agree... but... turbos. At the end of the day, if I blow it up, I will plop in a diesel.

As someone that's still going through a long and drawn out turbo build on a 94 - I just want you to know, good luck, we're all counting on you.

Any guidance? What issues are you running into?

if I was going to stay under say a 50% hp increase I would look toward doing something like a 7th injector and O2 sensor modifier.

I'm not looking to get nutty with the boost. Any info you could provide on controlling an extra injector would be greatly appreciated. By "O2 modifier" do you mean installing a wideband, or something else? I'm currently doing some exhaust work to and trying to make sure anything I do now supports the eventuality of a turbo system.

I would just do two simply J's off the stock manifolds.

That's pretty much exactly what I intend to do. The '93 is setup pretty great for twins since it already has dual manifolds. Since I'm doing the exhaust currently (rusted through and blew and O2 sensor out the side) I have played with the idea of moving the O2 sensors to the PAIR valves and doing an EGR delete. Any thoughts on how O2 sensors would handle being upstream of a turbo? I am assuming any turbo install will involve an EGR delete but I want to know if I should just weld in new bungs now.

There is a guy in the 70 series forum that put about 10lbs boost to his 3fe-which pretty much the same EFI design as your motor. It moves! As far as I know it worked well, he had little money into it. If your quiet, and listen closely, sometimes u can hear the turbo spool to this day.

Any chance you could point me to a member or a thread?

A few more details on the turbos. They are MHI TD03 10tk3 in case anyone gets curious and wants to look a up a compressor map. On a 3.0L motor they can make 8psi at 1500rpm and hold 20psi to 7000rpm. They way I figure it that's good enough to make 5psi almost straight off idle in a 4.5L. I overlaid the volumetrics of both motors against the compressor map and it was... well, compelling. 5psi is a good starting point, and if I ever get more money/time than sense I can always go and add a standalone ECU, variable CDI, etc. and start chasing boost. This warrants more research. Thanks again for all your input.