3B Rebuild and Performance Notes (1 Viewer)

[yotahed]

Im getting the same response and spool as when i had it functioning. The wastegate actuator was too weak to provide proper regulation anyways. It never goes above around 19-20psi no matter what condition, which is about the same as having it connected and regulated via the controller. I know what youre saying, and ill be doing a little more r&d on over the next little while.
Wouldnt you see a relation in excessive drive pressure spikes to EGTs?

 

[Dougal]

I know what youre saying, and ill be doing a little more r&d on over the next little while.
Wouldnt you see a relation in excessive drive pressure spikes to EGTs?

Nope.
EGT only follows drive pressure a little. So little that you'll never notice it.

If you were getting the same boost before/after blocking the wastegate then you are either running too much boost or the turbine housing is too large.

 

[yotahed]

Here are the specs.
TURBO SPEC:
T3 internal wastegate turbo .48ar
Intake 2.5 inch
Inlet 2.25 inch
Compressor trim: .42ar
Compressor Wheel diameter 43.20 / 60.41
Turbine Wheel diameter 45.74 / 62.86
Exhaust Trim: .48ar
Turbine flange type: t3 flange
Down pipe flange type : 2.4 v band flange
Cooling type: oil cool only
Actuator setting : 8 psi
Horsepower rating: 325-350

I've been trying to find a map for it but closest I can get is a 50 trim.

Wouldnt too large of a turbine housing see a lot of lag and poor spool? I get 10psi from 1650-1800 depending on fueling setting, boost rises very quickly from there and max is acheived by 2200-2400 depending on load, hills, gear etc.

 

[Hulsty]

If you decide to put a waste gate actuator back on I have had good success with the below one. My stock one struggled to hold the boost and then would not open enough so I had boost creep in the top end ~4-5psi extra at 4000rpm and only a small window when it ran correct boost. With this one it holds boost solid all the way to the governor.

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/k...egateactuatortoyotact2612hthj6140ldiesel.aspx

 

[yotahed]

yea I think the WG actuator was the issue from day 1. set to max adjustment and it would barely have any travel left. but would hold 12 psi. Ill probably cannibalize an old turbo from work. we have around a thousand friggin cores, im sure I can find one or two actuators...

 

[yotahed]

heres a map for a 50 trim and a 45 trim. Im right im between these.
I hardly ever rev past 3000rpm, so its a pretty decent match.
the dots are 1000, 1200, 1600, 2000, 2250, 2500, 3350 and 4000 rpm.
this is assuming A/F ratio of 20:1 and target power of 150HP.

An HX30 seems like a good match with the same goals.

 

[Dougal]

Here are the specs.
TURBO SPEC:
T3 internal wastegate turbo .48ar
Intake 2.5 inch
Inlet 2.25 inch
Compressor trim: .42ar
Compressor Wheel diameter 43.20 / 60.41
Turbine Wheel diameter 45.74 / 62.86
Exhaust Trim: .48ar
Turbine flange type: t3 flange
Down pipe flange type : 2.4 v band flange
Cooling type: oil cool only
Actuator setting : 8 psi
Horsepower rating: 325-350

I've been trying to find a map for it but closest I can get is a 50 trim.

Wouldnt too large of a turbine housing see a lot of lag and poor spool? I get 10psi from 1650-1800 depending on fueling setting, boost rises very quickly from there and max is acheived by 2200-2400 depending on load, hills, gear etc.

The overall turbine flow (calculated from your specs) is about what I expect, but I think the wheel is a very old high trim design that won't be very efficient.
You're probably doing as well as you can with that turbo. Measure drive pressure if you get the chance, I suspect it'll be high for the boost produced.

 

[yotahed]

heres a HX30 map with the same input #'s

 

[yotahed]

The overall turbine flow (calculated from your specs) is about what I expect, but I think the wheel is a very old high trim design that won't be very efficient.
You're probably doing as well as you can with that turbo. Measure drive pressure if you get the chance, I suspect it'll be high for the boost produced.

Yea I was going to tap a fitting for a pressure guage in the manifold anyway. Ideal pressure would be somewhat equal or less than boost correct? trying to remember what I read on this...

 

[Dougal]

Yea I was going to tap a fitting for a pressure guage in the manifold anyway. Ideal pressure would be somewhat equal or less than boost correct? trying to remember what I read on this...

With an efficient turbo that is well matched you'll be able to get drive pressure under boost at high load and low rpm. In worst case it should be about double boost.

 

[yotahed]

A slightly different turbine wheel would decrease drive pressure while keeping the same size compressor wheel? say 48.7mm/59mm instead of 45.74mm/62.86mm or would this increase it? Just trying to get my head around the concepts.

What effect does the exhaust inducer and exducer size difference have? I would think the bigger the difference, the more force applied to the shaft at a given rpm? better to have them closer to each other in size or further apart?

For example: mine-11mm difference compared to 47mm/53mm -6mm difference (available option for a T3).

 

[Dougal]

A slightly different turbine wheel would decrease drive pressure while keeping the same size compressor wheel? say 48.7mm/59mm instead of 45.74mm/62.86mm or would this increase it? Just trying to get my head around the concepts.

The higher trim turbines are generally more efficient yes. This means they can extract more power from less drive pressure.

 

[yotahed]

I was looking at a td04e 50trim turbine. Hybrid?
The 50 trim T3 looks to be a closer match for high efficiency in the mid range torque rpm...

 

[Dougal]

I was looking at a td04e 50trim turbine. Hybrid?
The 50 trim T3 looks to be a closer match for high efficiency in the mid range torque rpm...

For efficiency you really need to ditch the old series turbos altogether. The compressors might look okay, but your combined efficiency is compressor*turbine and I'm pretty sure those turbines are poo.

Outside the GT2052 that I've already sized and has many happy customers (who've paid me nothing btw) I'd recommend a TD04HL-19T. 16T/G would likely be fine too, but the 19T actually has more surge margin than most and with a 6cm turbine housing will do all you need.

 

[yotahed]

I think there might just be one sitting here in the shop...... Have to have a go at it.

Thanks Dougal.

 

[gerg]

The hl,s turbine is smaller and more efficient than the t3 and the 6cm housing is tuff to size in a/r, but is smaller as well than the .48. If you go this way with a 16 or 19t you will want tp run a waste gate. Be cool if you had one of the elusive twin scroll HL's I've heard about.

 

[Dougal]

The hl,s turbine is smaller and more efficient than the t3 and the 6cm housing is tuff to size in a/r, but is smaller as well than the .48. If you go this way with a 16 or 19t you will want tp run a waste gate. Be cool if you had one of the elusive twin scroll HL's I've heard about.

I've been able to measure the A/R (virtually using CAD models) of TD04 housings. 6cm is ~0.50 A/R. I've also been right through the turbine sizing and prediction. You will need a wastegate and it's close to the ideal size for general use on a diesel up to ~4.5 litres.

 

[gerg]

That is great to know Doug for comparison. I guess I was quite a bit off on the sizing. I always reference small and large housings with a/r but all the Japanese turbos use cm. I have seen HLs with 5 cm housings, but they are somewhat rare. I don't know if that would be a good idea anyhow as the more I've read on small housings has lead me to think it would be a diminishing return as you go smaller, as with most things in life. I guess then a smaller turbine might work better rather than a smaller housing. Fortunately with MHI the housings and turbines are very plentyful and cheap. What's the smallest housing yould go to before downsizing the turbine? You mentioned the ct12b before. After much reading, I found some variation with the same designations, but the smallest one seemed be Similar to the tdo4l, but the compressor is really quite unique with a crazy steep trim. I think it was meant for a 3l though. I have all that saved on our home computer that my wife knocked over one too many times and it won't boot up now......doh.

 

[Dougal]

Cummins use a HE211 turbo with a 5cm housing on the ISF3.8 industrial. That's a 3.8 litre 4 cylinder. Tiny turbo for lots of boost which keeps the combustion temps and NOx emissions down. It runs around 27:1 A/F at full load.

It's not what most of us are aiming for. But it shows what is possible.

 

[bj70cruzer]

I have a td04l 13t on my 3b and was wandering if something like a vf34 or td05 16g may provide little more topend power? will these be alot more laggy?

i have seen that you can get a 19t compressor housing upgrades and want to know what a bigger compressor wheel achieves? If i keep the exhaust turbine the same size wont this just be my limiting factor even with the bigger compressor housing?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Turbo-Co..._Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f32c48899&_uhb=1

Thanks!