2F Rebuild: Next Steps?

[rstoddard]

So, I have pulled the head on the ‘75 2F Engine I acquired:

And I have removed the HB and Oil Pan:

So I’m wondering what is best: should keep tearing it down and pulling the Crankshaft, Camshaft and Pistons, and send them out separately with the pistons and rods to a machinist to clean measure and inspect? or would it be better to take. it to a machinist to tear down, measure and clean?

thanks!

 

[3_puppies]

does the crank and pistons move/rotate?

 

[iam_turner]

What is your end goal?
I havn’t yet looked into his deep enough to know if piston/cams/cranks/valves/seats are all available?

First, I would do as mentioned above and see if the assembly is seized - even if it isn’t seized, you’re going to want to tear it all down and have a look to see what the condition of the cylinder walls are in.

This will shed light on the integrity of the block (to a degree) and if it’s worth going further (if you can get the parts). The head will likely need to go into the machine shop, have them check it for cracks and warpage. Have them go through the head, reconditioning it, get the engine honed to the smallest oversize, buy pistons rings (over sized), have the crank polished (if it’s salvage able) replace if not (same as cam shaft), get new gasket kits, new bearings, and install, easy peezy .
This would be a complete engine overhaul and rebuild, like new engine, if done correctly.
Make sure you get the block professionally honed/cleaned/conditioned also I’d recommend getting most of the head work done professionally as well - though it is doable by yourself (in my opinion, time is bar far better spent working on something while the ”professionals” make the engine basics PERFECT.

I might have missed one or two things.
Rotate the assembly and post back letting us know if it was free or not. Then regardless remove the everything and show us pictures of the cylinders??

Best of luck

 

[middlecalf]

I would suspect you’ll need to invest a good amount of time to clear the entire water jacket. A good shop can do that too.

 

[rainingagain]

We need to know if it turns over. If not, as stated already, it's a complete tear down. That being said, the number 1 connecting rod has been under water. If this were my engine, I'd tear it down. Even without seeing the cylinder walls.

Now, who does the tear down? Do you want to pay the machine shop to do it? Or are you capable? You can't just throw everything into a box. You need to stamp/mark everything so it goes back where it came from, etc.

 

[flee]

I'm sure Phoenix/Tempe has ample options for engine machine shop services.
If you were in L.A, I would be glad to recommend, having rebuilt my '68 F recently.
All the parts you will be needing are available, try to stay as organized as possible and be realistic about your own abilities.
These are not very complex engines but you will save both time and money by reading up thoroughly before digging in.

 

[rstoddard]

does the crank and pistons move/rotate?

@3_puppies
I can’t get the crank to move at all. It’s totally locked up. Of course there was no oil in the engine and the front end of the crank had rust on it (and the rear seal area looks to be rusted), so it’s not surprising. I poured some oil in the cylinders and over the crank, but I’ll be surprised if it’s enough to break anything loose.

What do I do at this point? Can I still get the crank out if I can’t turn it? Does the fact that it won’t turn mean it’s shot? Can I get the timing gears off if I can’t turn anything?

 

[3_puppies]

@3_puppies
I can’t get the crank to move at all. It’s totally locked up. Of course there was no oil in the engine and the front end of the crank had rust on it (and the rear seal area looks to be rusted), so it’s not surprising. I poured some oil in the cylinders and over the crank, but I’ll be surprised if it’s enough to break anything loose.

What do I do at this point? Can I still get the crank out if I can’t turn it? Does the fact that it won’t turn mean it’s shot? Can I get the timing gears off if I can’t turn anything?

you can get the crank out
the crank timing gear can be pulled off with a puller
remove all the main caps and crank caps
crank will come out

problem now is the pistons stuck in the bores
they can be driven out
block will need work and it may be too far gone

 

[twgreene]

So, I have pulled the head on the ‘75 2F Engine I acquired:

View attachment 3203265

And I have removed the HB and Oil Pan:

View attachment 3203267

So I’m wondering what is best: should keep tearing it down and pulling the Crankshaft, Camshaft and Pistons, and send them out separately with the pistons and rods to a machinist to clean measure and inspect? or would it be better to take. it to a machinist to tear down, measure and clean?

thanks!

i just did a similar thing to a 76 block. Pistons were somewhat protected with the head still on the block but the rings were rusted into the cylinder walls. The machine shop soaked the block for several days and then was able to remove the pistons, crankshaft and cam. I tried to do it myself at first but it was beyond my ability. Be sure to keep the "bracket" that supports the oil pump shaft and distributor shaft - it is inside the block. Marlin told me that he thinks they are unique to the block and getting them to align properly to prevent crashing the distributor gear into the cam gear is very important.

 

[OlyTacoma173]

I’ll be watching your engine rebuild with great interest, as I’m at about the same place with my 1979 2F. Fortunately everything was still turning in mine, but I definitely had water in the crankcase. I’ve got very little in the way of mechanic skills, but I feel I’ve learned a ton just through the process of tearing my engine down. Keep at it, and best of luck to us both I guess!

 

[rstoddard]

We’ll both learn together! I agree that tearing down an engine is certainly educational. It’s good to know how things actually work and go together. Thank God for the tremendous help and support on IH8MUD!

 

[JDNs78FJ40]

I'll be starting this too! Just need to find all the parts needed.

 

[rstoddard]

you can get the crank out
the crank timing gear can be pulled off with a puller
remove all the main caps and crank caps
crank will come out

problem now is the pistons stuck in the bores
they can be driven out
block will need work and it may be too far gone

I got the Crank timing gear off, but the Camshaft Gear is giving me tons of grief. The Gear is shot, and I had to turn it to try to get the bolts visible. I managed to get the bolts and snap ring off, but the gear doesn't want to come off. I'll soak it with some WD overnight and try again tomorrow.

Any tips on how and where to mark the main caps? I used a punch to try and mark them, but it's not easy to find a good location, especially on those end caps.

 

[Rocky_LC]

Don’t use WD-40, use either a real penetrant, or a 50/50 mid of acetone and ATF (automatic transmission fluid).

Mix it up good, then apply with a Q-Tip.

 

[rstoddard]

I heard ATF was good to use. A Q-Tip seems to be too dainty for this mess.... seems like it needs a heavy dose!

 

[flee]

I got the Crank timing gear off, but the Camshaft Gear is giving me tons of grief. The Gear is shot, and I had to turn it to try to get the bolts visible. I managed to get the bolts and snap ring off, but the gear doesn't want to come off. I'll soak it with some WD overnight and try again tomorrow.

Any tips on how and where to mark the main caps? I used a punch to try and mark them, but it's not easy to find a good location, especially on those end caps.

A sharp carbide scribe should be able to make marks you can see on the top area.

 

[pb4ugo]

I dont know how good they are, but you can pick up a stamp set at Harbor Freight.
When you mark the rods be sure to mark both the cap and rod so you know their # and orientation to each other.

 

[Steamer]

the Camshaft Gear is giving me tons of grief. The Gear is shot, and I had to turn it to try to get the bolts visible. I managed to get the bolts and snap ring off, but the gear doesn't want to come off.

If you haven’t done it already, the cam & gear will pull straight out together once the two bolts are removed. A puller may or may not pull the gear off. It may take a shop press.

 

[rstoddard]

The Camshaft doesn’t seem to want to come out either. It seems to be rusted in place around where it enters the block.

 

[rstoddard]

I figured out why the camshaft won’t come out: It’s hitting the lifters that are rusted in the block. There was so much gunk in there I didn’t even know they were there (the lifter rods had been removed). So now I have to figure out how to get them out. I sprayed them good with Kroil. We’ll see if I can loosen them up. Problem is, I can’t get the Crankshaft off unless I get the Camshaft off do I can remove the end plate.

And suggestions of how to remove the Lifters? Work from inside the block and push them out towards the head? Push from the top of the block head to loosen and then push out from the bottom of the block?