Builds 2F + (3F-E) = 2FETI Into My FJ40 (8 Viewers)

[pappy]

Well another piece of the puzzle arrived this morning.

I have a question for you in the USA, here the 3F-E manual RM134E is a supplement to the 3F manual 36253E, however in the USA the 3F was never available I believe, so do you have one complete manual or is the 3F-E still a supplement to the 3F which you never got?

Yes, one FJ62 manual. No manual tranny, no carb.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Where here the 62 was Carby, manual or auto, only the early 80 series had the 3F or 3F-E which means slim pickings for us trying to make a 2F-E or better.

But we have plenty of manual boxes, some ya win some ya lose

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Here are the specs for the for the 2F and 3F-E Pistons and Rods



Also Toyota original performance figures.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

The JE pistons we will be using are Part No 170770 which will require Re-bore to 3.736

Can anyone tell me how many more cc this will give me and don't forget I'm imperially challenged

 

[pappy]

The JE pistons we will be using are Part No 170771 which will require Re-bore to 3.766

Can anyone tell me how many more cc this will give me and don't forget I'm imperially challenged

I get 4380.9cc.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

I get 4380.9cc.

Thanks Pappy, I found this which says your spot on Displacement calculator

It even gives you the bore stroke ratio now I have to read up on somthing else

Edit.

Bore now only 3.736 displacement now 4311cc/263ci

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Made a start on the manifold bolts today which I kept separate as their seemed to be a strange mix of studs and blots as well as various sizes. I have noticed in the past genuine Toyota bolts have head sizes that maybe different to what the local auto shop may supply and these are fine thread too.



A 17mm Bolt Torque spec 51ft-lb or 69Nm
B 14mm Bolt Torque spec 37ft-lb or 50Nm
C Nut Torque spec 41ft-lb or 56Nm

Work has a pressure washer that has a fine grain sand in it, a little like shot blasting but far less abrasive, It wont damage the surface of steel.

Works a treat too

 

[Project60]

Nice Bolts!

Bolts turned out nice! Any damage to the threads for just a gentle cleaning?

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Bolts turned out nice! Any damage to the threads for just a gentle cleaning?

Just a gentle cleaning, the pressure washer/soft shot blaster is designed for cleaning precision plastic injection mould tools with a highly polished surface without damaging them. The sand/grain in it is extremely fine unlike the shot blaster we have that's very course in comparison.

Works a treat on my nuts and bolts too.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Should I or Shouldn't I.

All these dollars going into the engine most of it internal and never to been seen again or at least I hope so, I was wondering if I should have the 2F Aluminium rocker cover PIMPED your thoughts?

 

[bad_religion_au]

Should I or Shouldn't I.

All these dollars going into the engine most of it internal and never to been seen again or at least I hope so, I was wondering if I should have the 2F Aluminium rocker cover PIMPED your thoughts?

of course you should matt. gotta at least let people know it's a polished turd

so what's happening with the old motor (i'll read the rest of this thread later)

 

[Pin_Head]

Should I have the 2F Aluminium rocker cover PIMPED your thoughts?

Sure. Why not dress it up a bit?

Did yor start it up yet?

 

[bad_religion_au]

of course you should matt. gotta at least let people know it's a polished turd

so what's happening with the old motor (i'll read the rest of this thread later)

so your basically dumping everything into the old motor.

lol, shoulda put a holler out for a 2f block to use to build this monster and kept the original to sell as a whole.

do you still need some 2f bottom end bits for your builder to squiz at? i'll be sending mine to the scrap yard sometime soon, so i can salvage anything you need. hopefully will be able to get it to melbourne by the start of august too if that helps.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

of course you should Matt. gotta at least let people know it's a polished turd

so what's happening with the old motor (I'll read the rest of this thread later)

Left over will be the worked 2F head, and Gas converter and carby set up, ceramic coated extractors and Piranha optical dizzy system.

Sure. Why not dress it up a bit?

Did you start it up yet?

I have a competition on August 24,25,26. Vic Winch 07, once that's out of the way the 2F will be coming out for the transformation ready for 2008's round of Comps.



Vic 06 Second fastest on SS12

 

[matt.mcinnes]

so your basically dumping everything into the old motor.

lol, shoulda put a holler out for a 2f block to use to build this monster and kept the original to sell as a whole.

do you still need some 2f bottom end bits for your builder to squiz at? I'll be sending mine to the scrap yard sometime soon, so i can salvage anything you need. hopefully will be able to get it to Melbourne by the start of august too if that helps.

Thanks but its all good, I picked a short block up for a $100 for the engine builder to play with.

As for the block I thought about using another to build the 3F-ETI but this has been the hart of this 40 from its inception and I'm sentimental. In fact it's the only original bit left I think.

BUT IT'S ALL TOYOTA

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Bolts turned out nice! Any damage to the threads for just a gentle cleaning?

Finished the whole set now



SPANKING

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Well finally gave up on the injectors from Bosch, but that's what you get when you order from a friend of a friend who works for Bosch.


Picked these up on eBay and saved $450. I'll have them cleaned and tested.



The stock 3F-E injectors are rated at 213cc Per Min/42.6hp which when multiplied by 6 gives you a grand total of 255.6hp, this seems well above the required 155hp max of the stock engine even at the recommended 90% of their duty cycle.

My engine builder is however talking 300hp + so if he is on the money they will be too small.

These from a Nissan Skyline R32 RB20 however are rated at 270cc Per Min/55hp or 324hp in total, if however these are also too small a small rise in fuel pressure will do the trick I believe

Injector flow rates

 

[Moby]

The stock 3F-E injectors are rated at 213cc Per Min/42.6hp which when multiplied by 6 gives you a grand total of 255.6hp, this seems well above the required 155hp max of the stock engine even at the recommended 90% of their duty cycle.

Doesn't sound like you're going to be in those stock injectors for long

From what I've read the recommended duty cycle is 80%. RC Engineering has found that at ~85% duty cycle the injector can't close fast enough and you get uneven, possibly even lower, flow rates until duty cycle rises even higher and the injectors go static. I believe that above 80% there is also an issue with overheating the injectors. Not sure if that applies to all styles of injectors.

http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm#WORKSHEET

Based on the worksheet above using a bsfc of .5 at 80% duty cycle and stock fuel pressure at WOT it looks like ~190hp is the safe limit of the stock 3FE injectors. With a turbo you'd want to bump the bsfc value up (again per RC's worksheet to .6-.65).

Even 190 of course assumes that the stock ECU actually has fuel tables that run that high and that the AFM doesn't get saturated before the fuel tables run out. But I think you've already committed to a programmable ECU, correct?

If you haven't picked an ECU yet consider one that uses a wideband 02. I love my new handheld Innovate wideband 02 meter/recorder, really good feedback on the AFR, way better than the rich/stoic/lean of a standard O2. With a wideband tied directly to a programmable ECU you could probably run closed loop in large areas of the fuel map where a ECU with a standard O2 would have to run open loop...

Great thread, keep it coming!

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Doesn't sound like you're going to be in those stock injectors for long

From what I've read the recommended duty cycle is 80%. RC Engineering has found that at ~85% duty cycle the injector can't close fast enough and you get uneven, possibly even lower, flow rates until duty cycle rises even higher and the injectors go static. I believe that above 80% there is also an issue with overheating the injectors. Not sure if that applies to all styles of injectors.

http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm#WORKSHEET

Based on the worksheet above using a bsfc of .5 at 80% duty cycle and stock fuel pressure at WOT it looks like ~190hp is the safe limit of the stock 3FE injectors. With a turbo you'd want to bump the bsfc value up (again per RC's worksheet to .6-.65).

Even 190 of course assumes that the stock ECU actually has fuel tables that run that high and that the AFM doesn't get saturated before the fuel tables run out. But I think you've already committed to a programmable ECU, correct?

If you haven't picked an ECU yet consider one that uses a wideband 02. I love my new handheld Innovate wideband 02 meter/recorder, really good feedback on the AFR, way better than the rich/stoic/lean of a standard O2. With a wideband tied directly to a programmable ECU you could probably run closed loop in large areas of the fuel map where a ECU with a standard O2 would have to run open loop...

Great thread, keep it coming!

Thanks for the link interesting reading now where is my calculator

Were not running an AFM at all just going with a MAP sensor, the ECU will be from Autronic and fully programable yes.

Also the Nissan Skyliner injectors are not compatibale with the fuel rail grrrrrr close but no cigar so back to the drawing board there, are well only $50 Aus back on Ebay they go.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

It's been one of those weeks but out of the fire the Phoenix rises.

The con rods from Argo are no more due to some mix up in communication and final price Not my problem at least.

But as it happens one of the engine builders employees is rebuilding a Jaguar straight 6 cylinder 4.2Ltr E TYPE for himself and guess what the con rod length is very close indeed They are also much stronger by design, rod bolts will be custom still. Best off all they will be around the $800 rather than the $1300 new.

So now we are back to stock Jaguar con rods and custom pistons.



Something like 15 thou has to be ground of the crank as the bearings are slightly smaller but no great issue I'm told. They are also narrower than at the crank so thrust will be from the piston. Oiling too will be less of an issue with these it seems.

Some E TYPE specs 1964 Jaguar E-Type 4.2 S1 OTS car specifications, auto technical data - performance, fuel economy, emissions, dimensions 58773