285s to 315s, wish you hadn't?

[stuck in GA]

To summarize this stuff. 285's are practical because they don't require regearing and movement of bumpstops. Thats it. Period. 315's are nice if you have a lift and regear and do the bumpstops. So that equals not as practical. Practicallity = money and use. Most can use 285's to get where 315's can go. So thats it end of story!

 

[NorCalDoug]

Close...but I think you'll find that it's not quite as easy to sum something like this up in just a couple sentences.

 

[TX_TLC]

To summarize this stuff. 285's are practical because they don't require regearing and movement of bumpstops. Thats it. Period. 315's are nice if you have a lift and regear and do the bumpstops. So that equals not as practical. Practicallity = money and use. Most can use 285's to get where 315's can go. So thats it end of story!

Thanks but no thanks for you attempt at a nice neat summary. Maybe someday you will have experienced enough LIFE to know not everything can be wrapped up with your bow on top.

How about you let people take what they want from the great information that the respected senior members of this board have provided in this thread. Being a senior member has NOTHING to do with the F'ing number of posts next to your name!

Thanks Beowulf

Junk,

Can you expound of your statement, "...if I were to do it all over again I'd stick with 285s and be much happier." Much happier is what sense? $ still in your pocket that you spent on other mods to make the 36's?

Thanks!
D

EDIT FYI...this is the "helpful part" I am trying to find out...Thanks Junk...

 

[stuck in GA]

Hey TX TLC grow up. And start posting things for helpful use instead of putting people down.

 

[Kalawang]

Kalawang,

So when you say "drop hangers", what exactly are you talking about?

Shocker,


I think the term is correct. You can see examples of them on just about any lift kit made for 4" or more lift. Mine are leftovers from a 4" lift.


Kalawang

 

[Kalawang]

Tools,


I may have been at fault for vague descriptions. It's only this year that I've begun an interest in the deatils of a car. All prior years were just useing them to get about and letting a mechanic tell me what I needed. In truth I still do that sometimes when the job looks difficult or heavy, but I try to understand what he's talking about these days. Thus as a raw beginner, I constantly grope for the right terms to car parts.

I apologize for the confusion.


Kalawang

 

[landtank]

Well that looks to be an 80. Still don't understand the 33s rubbing. Where are you located anyway. You talk about drop brackets like they are everywhere. We're still waiting for our first ones to become available.

 

[Kalawang]

The only thing extraordinary about my 80 is the surprisingly good condition it's in for a car that old. The former owner must have had a well controled love affair with this car as I've had no problems with it other than ageing rubber.

Drop brackets seem pretty much a necessity to any cars lifted 4" or more. The manufacturers of such kits wouldn't include such heavy metal otherwise. In trying to reduce my 4" lift I had to look at many kits on offer in magazines and the net and drop brackets were part and parcel of most. I genuinely doubt that you're not aware of them or haven't seen them. It's probable you dont have them if your ride is stock or lifted only 2" or thereabouts.

My drop brackets are leftovers of my now removed 4" lift, and I re installed the brackets in an attempt to remove a low speed vibration that had developed in my ride. Foolish me. The vibration source turned out to have been my worn out 35's.


Kalawang

 

[Beowulf]

From the pics he posted it doesn't appear to be where the front trailing arms mount to the frame. I have no idea where else one would have frame-mounted drop brackets.

-B-

 

[Newps]

Maybe he has something like this.

 

[Kalawang]

Newps,


That's just about it, and connected in the same places too. Insignificant differences in design but good enough for illustration. From the look of your trailing arms, we might even have the same 4" drop. Even the metal looks the same thickness.

Side topic: I like those sliders. Their design makes good sense.


Kalawang

 

[firetruck41]

To summarize this stuff. 285's are practical because they don't require regearing and movement of bumpstops. Thats it. Period. 315's are nice if you have a lift and regear and do the bumpstops. So that equals not as practical. Practicallity = money and use. Most can use 285's to get where 315's can go. So thats it end of story!

You should try to post your opinion as fact one more time to see if you can get on that special filter!

 

[ryanjl]

Once again Kalawang, the fact that your 33's are rubbing means either your bushings are shot, or your control arms were bent (maybe to adjust for caster) before you bought it. Maybe even your control arm bushings are not oem, and were off center to adjust for some misalignment, although I don't see how that would move the axle back that far.

Either way, something is different about your truck vs. every other 80 series on this board, and assumably out there in general.

Instead of saying "drop brackets. Every lift kit of this size has it" (no they don't, btw), maybe you could have actually used diction (i.e. "words") to describe where the hell they were. For example, "The 'drop brackets' lowered the mounting points of the front control arms to the frame in order to adjust for caster." Instead, you got defensive when we had no idea what the hell you were talking about, using a vague term to describe what is different about your vehicle.

And stuck in GA, your definition of practicality is your own. 285's may be more practical for street use, but not because the installation of 315's require other modifications as well. I recommend you either stop hypothosising when you haven't a clue, or start doing it all the time so that I know to disregard anything you may say in the future altogether.

I'm leaning towards the latter.

Oh, and I never thought you were a newb because of your post count or anything it said by your username, I know you are a newb to 80 series Land Cruisers because of the content of your posts.

 

[e9999]

I don't get it. Newps' photo indeed shows apparently some sort of lowering mount that brings the end of the control arm lower with respect to the frame, I imagine in lieu of bushings to reset the caster.
Didn't look under my truck for verification, but KW's photos on the other hand don't seem to show the same type of lowering to me, and apparently not 4" either

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Oh, and I never thought you were a newb because of your post count or anything it said by your username, I know you are a newb to 80 series Land Cruisers because of the content of your posts.

Touche!

I was the second poster on this thread and have been amazed how it has developed. I ran 285/75/16 on my BONE STOCK, running boards and everything, 1997. This included several offroad adventures with my son, including a visit to Sierra Trek and several of the easier trails there. The tires never rubbed. Never, as in not once, ever. SO I agree with most here. Kalawang's 80 series has been modified in some way if it rubs with a lifted suspension. There is no way it could be worn bushings-they would need to be worn several inches to produce rubbing, so I think the front control arms were moved back when dropped to control caster.

I have also run OME medium lift and a J spring lift with these tires-no rubbing. I have run 315's on the J spring lift and no bump stops. I had a small amount of inner fender rubbing on Golden Spike in Moab, again-almost no rubbing even on a very difficult and technical trail.

As to Stuck's assertion that 285s are more "practical" I'm not sure what was ment. For sure, they are less expensive, but that is their only advantage. The 315s are better for offroading by any definition, but running them requires a whole lot of mods. Christo's quote about depleating your #6 fund is right on the mark. To make 315's drive well on the highway, gears, pan hards, bump stops, C/V driveshaft, and caster correction are the way to go, but having done all that, it makes the truck drive normally on the road, and is far more capable off of it.

For Stuck-I'm guessing you are a highschooler who inherited an 80 from Mom and Dad. If so, count your blessings. If you saved up and bought your own, then you have my admiration. You don't have enough experience yet in life or 4wheeling to make sweeping statements of any type. Learn something from the fact that at least 3 long term members of this fine forum have put you in the idiot box due to things you have said, and you probably don't deserve that. Spend a year wheeling and modding your 80, gain some real world experience, and then post what you know, not what you heard. Later in life you will appreciate the "school of hard knocks" because it will prepare you to face what life will bring your way, both good and bad.

 

[Kalawang]

Shocker,


It's simple enough to test my position. You have an 80 of your own with, I assume, OEM mud flaps and all you have to do is loosen those nuts and drive it a few kilometers on some subdivision roads that have speed humps. I'm pretty sure that you'll have some rubbing at full lock too unless you have more than a 2" lift. It would probably be necessary to have your wheels aligned after this.

If you want something simpler and without expense, just set your wheels straight and stick your fingers between the mud flaps and your 33" tires to see the distance. Then ask someone to turn the steering wheel to the right to full lock and see the distance reduce dramatically. This should tell you that it doesn't take much movement to get some rubbing.

I do not know that the wheels can be moved enough to cause rubbing if the bushings are new. I'm certain they do if the bushings are old and soft with age, but not yet bad enough to change. This can happen if the bolts are left loose as I mistakenly did with mine. I doubt properly tightened bolts would let this happen.

Please point out to me where and when I posted " ...every lift kit for this size has it. " . My memory tells me that my statement was more like " ...drop brackets are part and parcel of most kits. ", in reference to lift kits 4" or more. If a 4" or more lift kit doesn't have a drop bracket in its parts list, it would take a more dedicated, diligent and knowledgeable person to apply it successfully. You can lift any vehicle, but can you do so and leave it safely driveable at common road speeds and still have a reasonable life span for bearings and many other parts ? Not impossible but rather impracticle.

BTW, diction is the pronunciation of words, words are words.


Kalawang

 

[ryanjl]

Shocker,


It's simple enough to test my position. You have an 80 of your own with, I assume, OEM mud flaps and all you have to do is loosen those nuts and drive it a few kilometers on some subdivision roads that have speed humps. I'm pretty sure that you'll have some rubbing at full lock too unless you have more than a 2" lift. It would probably be necessary to have your wheels aligned after this.

If you want something simpler and without expense, just set your wheels straight and stick your fingers between the mud flaps and your 33" tires to see the distance. Then ask someone to turn the steering wheel to the right to full lock and see the distance reduce dramatically. This should tell you that it doesn't take much movement to get some rubbing.

I do not know that the wheels can be moved enough to cause rubbing if the bushings are new. I'm certain they do if the bushings are old and soft with age, but not yet bad enough to change. This can happen if the bolts are left loose as I mistakenly did with mine. I doubt properly tightened bolts would let this happen.

Please point out to me where and when I posted " ...every lift kit for this size has it. " . My memory tells me that my statement was more like " ...drop brackets are part and parcel of most kits. ", in reference to lift kits 4" or more. If a 4" or more lift kit doesn't have a drop bracket in its parts list, it would take a more dedicated, diligent and knowledgeable person to apply it successfully. You can lift any vehicle, but can you do so and leave it safely driveable at common road speeds and still have a reasonable life span for bearings and many other parts ? Not impossible but rather impracticle.

BTW, diction is the pronunciation of words, words are words.


Kalawang

There are no bolts you can loosen and not completely remove on an OEM Land Cruiser that will move the front axle back. Yours has been modified either on purpose or as the result of an accident, and that is what everyone has been trying to tell you. If the three bushings per control arm are intact, and none of the control arm bolts are missing, it is a physical impossibility to move the axle front to back in relation to the frame on an OEM vehicle.

When we ask what is different about your vehicle, your reply is merely "I removed the drop hangers." Even the pictures you took of your vehicle didn't do anything to describe what it was you were talking about.

You obviously have no knowledge of the available aftermarket suspension kits on 80 series Land Cruisers, because most kits correct caster (what your "drop hangers" were installed for) by using off-center bushings, control arms of different design, caster plates similar to what Slee now sells, or any combination of the three. That is what is done, and has been done for several years now.

As far as diction goes, here's webster's definition:

2 : choice of words especially with regard to correctness, clearness, or effectiveness

BTW, it's funny how you focus on what you feel is a missuse of that word, yet somehow ignore every point almost every person has been trying to make on the impossibility of what you are saying can happen when using a 285 sized tire, even Tools R Us' own experiments and subsequent supplied photograph.

 

[NorCalDoug]

As they say...a picture is worth a thousand words...
Kalawag the pics you posted really do a poor job of showing what you're trying to describe. Better pics might help to illustrate what you have.

 

[Kalawang]

NorCalDoug,


I agree that as this discussion's current level goes, my pictures do not show adequately. They're pretty much all I have at the moment. The original request for photos left me with the impression that you just wanted to see what was underneath my car. Obviously no longer the case.

For me to be able to post more illustrative pictures, it would be necessary for me to borrow a digital camera and put my car on a lift to take the pictures, return the camera and ask the owner to burn the pictures to a cd for me and then take it home and post them. I'm a film shooter and never before this incident have had enough interest in digitals to aquire one.

I wonder at what reasons there should be for me to be so poor in credibility. Obviously the prospect of 33' tires rubbing was as surprising to you as it was to me and I do have the advantage of experiencing it directly and therefore finding it easier to believe. I doubt any additional photos would prove my case unless those photos were done with me having restored the cars condition to where the tires would actually rub again, and then step by step show my solution in application until the finish. I think going in that direction isn't worth the effort and I see no reward in doing so. You do not accept my story. Lets leave it at that.


Kalawang


Shocker,


Our exchanges have deteriorated to an argument.

Have a good life.


Kalawang

 

[NorCalDoug]

No, no need for a lift. Just roll under your rig and snap a few pics That's what I'd do.

It's not that I don't believe you when you say you have rubbing. However, I know that I never did and I have never heard of anyone else having issues with rubbing with 285s (and I've been on various 80 seriesLC lists/forums for about 8 or 9 years now).

I'm curious as to how you have yours set up as it might be the reason your tires rub. Based on your descriptions, it seems somewhat unconventional. I don't think it's necessarily a credibility thing...but you're fairly new here (as your post count reflects) and you're describing something that seems...well...different.

You can still get the job done with film -- I recall Kodak has a disposable camera that your photo processor will convert to a photo CD for you. Some places will create a photo cd w/o the kodak "special disposable digitial" gimmic.