2006 Land Cruiser P0330 - Knock Sensor Drama at the Dealer

[jerryb]

Looks like I was drunk when I wrote that other post. They were lying to you about the starter and about Toyota not selling repair wires and the connector for the kn.
The sai stuff is probably them messing it all up, or more rodent damage.
Either way all those sai connectors and wires are available. The pressure sensor won't normally fail. Neither will pump unless it's damaged. The valves behind the starter,,,, they are assuming the failed open or closed. They won't check to actually see either. There is no logical reason to keep that system intact. Hewitt's stuff works. Sorry to say, you should have went somewhere else. I'd get my car back and go elsewhere if possible.
It's a hard lesson. I feel for you.

 

[Tx2006LC]

Looks like I was drunk when I wrote that other post. They were lying to you about the starter and about Toyota not selling repair wires and the connector for the kn.
The sai stuff is probably them messing it all up, or more rodent damage.
Either way all those sai connectors and wires are available. The pressure sensor won't normally fail. Neither will pump unless it's damaged. The valves behind the starter,,,, they are assuming the failed open or closed. They won't check to actually see either. There is no logical reason to keep that system intact. Hewitt's stuff works. Sorry to say, you should have went somewhere else. I'd get my car back and go elsewhere if possible.
It's a hard lesson. I feel for you.

Sorry I am not following about the lying about the starter part. Is that where they claimed it needed to be removed, and charged me labor, but it did not need to be removed? It sounds like it didn't, but they certainly charged me labor for that being removed and the SAI Pump. They also confirmed they had to unbolt the SAI pump. But now they are claiming they did not disconnect it. Just unbolt it and and place it somewhere else.


It looks like the all these parts 17610-0C010, 25710-50012, 25720-50012 are connected to the work that they touched, and to the manifold or parts of the manifold they removed.

Could the SAI codes be thrown by rodents damage? Sounds very likely from @[SIZE=4]2001LC[/SIZE] post from earlier


For Hewitt's
It looks like people here have mentioned John Reimann at Premier1 as a mechanic that does good work located here locally in San Antonio. Does anyone know if he has done this kind of work before? or would be willing too?

1. P1440-P1443 code after Hewitt Tech SAIS Bypass​

2. S.A.I. Filter Modification, in VVT engines. To prevent its failure! Alert Alert! from @[SIZE=4]2001LC[/SIZE]​

   • This appears to be a preferred option, and involves easy fixing. How likely is it that someone like a Joh. Reimann would do this at his repair shop Premier 1 Auto?

3. 06/07 Air Induction Pump Failure & Bypass​

Here is the Gen2 kit itself
Hewitt Technologies full bypass kit including the block off plates

 

[jerryb]

Hewitt is sai delete. The only thing that has to happen is the pressure sensor has to be intact.
Other than that there wouldn't be touching of anything to delete it.

Starter being removed was the lie. If they go by the book the book might say remove the starter to remove the secondary valves.

It's all a little bit moot. Once the intake is removed everything else is an hour or hour and a half and a 2x12 across the fenders or a ladder.
Yes rodents could cause sai codes.
Funny thing though talking about the starter. I can't think of any mechanic that would want to remove that thing unless they absolutely had to to get to the wires underneath that go to the harness that has your knock sensor wires in it. Mice had to start back at the main harness housing, that big black plastic thing.
That's usually not the case, they'll start in the valley.

A word about deleting SAi.
No one is doing anyone any favors keeping that thing intact. It's not going to increase the value of your vvti, nor is anyone going to appreciate you having it in the future.
This is a very quick fix if your pressure sensor is intact. Like a 15 minute fix.

I looked in my box and the knock sensor wires for vvti plus three wire repairs is about a hundred buckd per sensor, or a little bit less. I have them sitting because I have an intermittent 333 that happens like twice or three times a year. I still haven't dealt with that.

 

[2001LC]

It is possible, they used book method to remove starter. In which, the vacuum lines on BK1 & BK2 S.A.I. valves, and valves are removed. They may have a leak now.. But they should have check this and the two VSV switches already. They should not just be seeing the DTC (codes) and making the call to replace all those parts.

They for sure had the S.A.I. pump and main switching valve out. Very likely they desloges dust as they had out while on the bench. Possible turning on its side or upside down. Which it not issue, unless dust inside. very like if they looked inside pump, filter is out of position.

Toyota has a TSB, that instructs them. To replace S.A.I. pump, main switch (valve with pressure sensor), and both BK1 and BK2 switch (valves). If certain S.A.I. DTC (codes come up). Which in 50% or more of cases, I've a theory, that only the pressure sensor needs replacing.

 

[2001LC]

If this all confusing you. PM (DM) me your contact info. I call you in the morning. Meantime take two aspirin and get some rest.

 

[Tx2006LC]

It is possible, they used book method to remove starter. In which, the vacuum lines on BK1 & BK2 S.A.I. valves, and valves are removed. They may have a leak now.. But they should have check this and the two VSV switches already. They should not just be seeing the DTC (codes) and making the call to replace all those parts.

They for sure had the S.A.I. pump and main switching valve out. Very likely they desloges dust as they had out while on the bench. Possible turning on its side or upside down. Which it not issue, unless dust inside. very like if they looked inside pump, filter is out of position.

Toyota has a TSB, that instructs them. To replace S.A.I. pump, main switch (valve with pressure sensor), and both BK1 and BK2 switch (valves). If certain S.A.I. DTC (codes come up). Which in 50% or more of cases, I've a theory, that only the pressure sensor needs replacing.

This makes a lot of sense! U had a feeling them had all the parts out in the valleys and there must’ve been some kind of hoses connected to the valves behind the motor based on some of your pictures when you had the manifold etc off.

Do you have a copy of the FSM for this job?

 

[2001LC]

Understand. It's very likely, your SAI pump (blower) filter failed, before they touch it. Failure of the filter itself, does not result in a DTC (code). It's the dust entering the system, without being filter. That in time, will result in issues and DTC.

By removing and josling components of SAI. Which any shop must do, to R&R starter or knock sensor. The dust that may have be within system already. May have moved into areas, resulting in system having and issues.

I am trying to have Toyota admit they followed the FSM for this job. That way they touched and worked on and connected disconnected multiple components to the secondary air assembly components.

I don't usually follow the FSM. It that, I don't remove the rear water bypass as recommended. Which the BK1 & BK2 SAI valves are attached to. I've way around bypass removal, that saves on parts. Anyone that has done as many 4.7L starters as I, likely does the same way.

Regardless. The S.A.I. pump and main switching valve (pressure sensors is attached to), must come out, to remove starter or knock sensors.

Which the tech, may have made error, during assemble. i.e. gasket leak, hose leak or wire not connected. Shop tech, should have check for this first thing. After the saw SAI DTC.

 

[Tx2006LC]

Understand. It's very likely, your SAI pump (blower) filter failed, before they touch it. Failure of the filter itself, does not result in a DTC (code). It's the dust entering the system, without being filter. That in time, will result in issues and DTC.

By removing and josling components of SAI. Which any shop must do, to R&R starter or knock sensor. The dust that may have be within system already. May have moved into areas, resulting in system having and issues.



I don't usually follow the FSM. It that, I don't remove the rear water bypass as recommended. Which the BK1 & BK2 SAI valves are attached to. I've way around bypass removal, that saves on parts. Anyone that has done as many 4.7L starters as I, likely does the same way.

Regardless. The S.A.I. pump and main switching valve (pressure sensors is attached to), must come out, to remove starter or knock sensors.

Which the tech, may have made error, during assemble. i.e. gasket leak, hose leak or wire not connected. Shop tech, should have check for this first thing. After the saw SAI DTC.

Is there any possibility that the current system can be salvaged? By putting in a new filter workout around like you have done?

Or do various parts of my system need to be replaced now that the codes have been thrown?

 

[ranma21]

Well fellow Texan, if you going to go by pass SAI route, another option other than Hewitt is Rutech. I just tested Rutech solution kit on my 200, was getting P2447. 10 minutes and all good to go and pass emissions test.

Rutech Solutions

Secondary Air System - Induction Pump Bypas for Toyotas engine codes: P1441 -P1442 -P1443 -P1444 -P1445 -P2440 -P2441 -P2442 -P2443 -P2444 -P2445 -P2446

rutechsolutions.com

 

[2001LC]

Well fellow Texan, if you going to go by pass SAI route, another option other than Hewitt is Rutech. I just tested Rutech solution kit on my 200, was getting P2447. 10 minutes and all good to go and pass emissions test.

Rutech Solutions

Secondary Air System - Induction Pump Bypas for Toyotas engine codes: P1441 -P1442 -P1443 -P1444 -P1445 -P2440 -P2441 -P2442 -P2443 -P2444 -P2445 -P2446

rutechsolutions.com

Do you think, we can breathe easier. Now that Trump, is rolling back environmental laws. Perhaps, bypass the S.A.I. system, will no longer be federal crime.

Is there any possibility that the current system can be salvaged? By putting in a new filter workout around like you have done?

Or do various parts of my system need to be replaced now that the codes have been thrown?

Difficult question to answer. Especially, not knowing if filter failed. If so, did pumps impeller (fan blades) get damaged. If blades damaged, it's best to install new pump, and do the filter MOD.

Note: The filter in new pumps is different. Last one I saw, was not a solid piece of foam. Which was prior to the 2020 GX460 SAI filter recall. They may have updated filter again, since.

The Toyota TSB does say. Replace only parts damaged by debris.

You can try just one part, like air pressure sensor. If, valve stem in main switching valve clean and shiny and switch pass beanch test. But it's under the intake manifold (IM). So not replacing the pump or main switching value, while IM off. May mean,pulling the IM again. Most other parts can be replaced, with pulling IM.

When I had the same DTC as you. All components tested okay, using the FSM test. Even the air pressure sensor. I was going to, just replace the $40 air pressure sensor. But seeing tarnish on valves stem of main switch valve. Even though it test as okay, on the bench. I just went ahead and replaced it mian switching valve. Since, I had a good (no tarnish on valve) used switch in hand. Which they comes with air pressure sensor. I somewhat regret, not replacing just the air pressure sensor. As a test. But if wrong, I would have had to, pull the IM off again.

This was on my 4.7L VVTi test vehicle. That determined the issues taking out SAI & CATs, and design the MOD in. One which had every issue we see. Its been 5 years, and no issues at all since I did the filter MOD & replaced the main switching valve.

 

[ranma21]

Do you think, we can breathe easier. Now that Trump, is rolling back environmental laws. Perhaps, bypass the S.A.I. system, will no longer be federal crime.

Who knows ?! Hard to predict what is in his mind. That being said, Texas in general is moving into that direction. If you live outside major metropolitan area, no longer require safety and emissions test. They do away with safety inspection starting January this year which personally I think is not a smart move. So you can renew registration with no safety inspection in Texas now, but with emission test depending on the county you resides.

 

[Tx2006LC]

UPDATE:

Thank you all for the great responses and feedback. It certainly helped get this moved along.

Just got a call from the dealership after calling their Corporate customer relations Department and escalation a case. GREAT NEWS!

The dealership will replace the SAI Pump and the BK1 and BK1 Valves. I need to get clarification on all the details. They said they found a crack in the inlet tube of the of the SAI Pump, and that was causing a leak. I am surprised they finally checked something more than codes after having the vehicle for 9 days. They didn't comment on the valves what caused them to fail. Etc

Starter and Knock Sensor
They also are going to pay for the labor to do the starter and the Knock Sensor.
Toyota Parts:
KNOCK SENSOR…$200.71 PLUS TAX
STARTER………......$258.03 PLUS TAX
Total: $458.03 plus tax

Heater T's and Hoses
I checked my Heater T's and Hoses. They seemed fine to me based on visual inspection and squeezing on the hoses and the T's themselves. I can ask the dealership to check again to confirm that these are in good working order, but they haven't done much due diligence at this point. @LC2001 is this job worth having them do?
Hose….$31.95 plus tax
Hose….$22.90 plus tax
Hose….$26.84 plus tax
Hose….$43.99 plus tax
Hose….$37.04 plus tax
Hose….$11.68 plus tax
Labor ...$568.73
Incidental fees…$59.95
Total: $817.47

RWBJ
They quoted me $14.80 for the gasket plus tax labor $95.00 with tax total $111.02. I believe there are two gaskets required for this. But i am assuming this isnt of critical priority to do unless something is wrong. @2001LC


Please let me know if you think the heater T's and or RWBJ are worthwhile to have the dealership do.

 

[2001LC]

UPDATE:

Thank you all for the great responses and feedback. It certainly helped get this moved along.

Just got a call from the dealership after calling their Corporate customer relations Department and escalation a case. GREAT NEWS!

The dealership will replace the SAI Pump and the BK1 and BK1 Valves. I need to get clarification on all the details. They said they found a crack in the inlet tube of the of the SAI Pump, and that was causing a leak.

Strange. The filter sit in cap on pump, which inlet tube is molded in cap. You'd need to drop on floor to crack. Even if crack, won't have much effect. Unless debris from busted cap, was stuck into impeller.
Inlet is molded with cap. Air inlet tube, is at/in left edge of yellow circle.

Intel tube of pump cap. In right edge of yellow circle in this view.

I am surprised they finally checked something more than codes after having the vehicle for 9 days. They didn't comment on the valves what caused them to fail. Etc

Starter and Knock Sensor
They also are going to pay for the labor to do the starter and the Knock Sensor.
Toyota Parts:
KNOCK SENSOR…$200.71 PLUS TAX
STARTER………......$258.03 PLUS TAX
Total: $458.03 plus tax

Heater T's and Hoses
I checked my Heater T's and Hoses. They seemed fine to me based on visual inspection and squeezing on the hoses and the T's themselves. I can ask the dealership to check again to confirm that these are in good working order, but they haven't done much due diligence at this point. @LC2001 is this job worth having them do?
Hose….$31.95 plus tax
Hose….$22.90 plus tax
Hose….$26.84 plus tax
Hose….$43.99 plus tax
Hose….$37.04 plus tax
Hose….$11.68 plus tax
Labor ...$568.73
Incidental fees…$59.95
Total: $817.47

RWBJ
They quoted me $14.80 for the gasket plus tax labor $95.00 with tax total $111.02. I believe there are two gaskets required for this. But i am assuming this isnt of critical priority to do unless something is wrong. @2001LC


Please let me know if you think the heater T's and or RWBJ are worthwhile to have the dealership do.

 

[Tx2006LC]

Here is the picture they just provided me

And here is what i assume is the 3.5 hour soldering job

 

[2001LC]

That, air SAI pumps, is toast.

Interesting. Looks like fresh break, of plastic air pump outlet, has busted off. Likely hose between pump & main SW valve stuck on plastic. Forced used to pull main switch valve off pump. I pull the assemblee (pump W/ main switching valve) so that hose not touched.

First I've seen busted.

Plastic in valley gets, very hot. As such, become brittle.
Like this busted wire housing block, which I'd replace.

 

[Tx2006LC]

The Saga Continues

They replaced all the S.A.I. assembly. And said they would order the pigtails connectors to replace the broken one you pointed out 2001LC.

They said that’s on back order and the only place that has those connectors is a Toyota in California.

I picked up my vehicle knowing I would go back when the parts arrived.

I drove my LC less than 100 feet after pick up and turned left (nearly full lock) into a parking spot and heard a fairly loud squeak. Others heard it too. I backed out and back into the spot and it happened again. I repeated this multiple times.

I couldn’t get it to replicate if I was not moving forward or backward. I pulled out and turned some tight (nearly full lock turns) both right and left in the dealership parking lot.

It did not seem to be related to drive shaft, or suspension travel, or wheels rubbing, or even wheel rotation. The squeak would happen about 1 time for every 1 circle I completed. Grabbed the service manager and another person from the dealership and they both confirmed they would hear it.

Was not on squeaky concreate or a painted strip where the rubber might squeak. This is a new sound that didn’t exist before. The dealership has basically had my vehicle since February!

2001LC…you have nailed so many things with this repair. Any ideas?

 

[2001LC]

Could be Vane pump and or it's idle up control vacuum line related, fan belt, ball joints, wheel or axle bearing related. To little info, to make the call.
_____________________________

The shop's tech, breakings the S.A.I. pump plastic. Was due to taking both pump & SW off bracket they attach, to separating those component. Which was not necessary. Tech, separating the two components, from each other, via short hose. Used force removing short hose that connect them. That's a tech, without a clue. A gorilla, only concerned with time (rushing)! He not only created, extra work for himself. He used force, rather than simple mechanic's technique. They way the wirehousing block is busted, is further example he's a gorilla. The same wire housing release clip (lock), is also missing. It surely busted, which that can't be helped. By all the rest, surely could have been!
_____________________________________________

What we do see bust, no matter how careful. Is the plastic release tab (lock) on wire housing block. As we press the plastic lock release tab, they break if brittle. In one particular 2007. I had 7 wire housing locks break. I replace all when they break. [On a side note:. My local Toyota parts department had all 7, in stock. He said, I should go buy a lottery ticket.]

One wire housing release, that breaks almost every time. Is the starter single wire housing blocks release tab. I always have one on hand. Most just plug and hope wire housings, don't come unplugged.

_________________ BAD SHOPS_______

I've had A Lexus Dealership shop. Damage my vehicle on a VGRS snap ring recall service. Which recall, must go to Lexus to be serviced. They let me drive away when done, in a deadly vehicle. Took me hours and hours and $100's in parts to correct. I cut a deal for free parts and 4 free alignment, for my time and cost. Todate I've collected on two of those alignments.

1. First alignment, they damaged my CATs and 02 sensors, busted windshield badly. They let sit and idle, for more than 2 hours, base on fuel gauge. My best engine with the highest MPG in over 22 years in 100 series, Is now my worst MPG. My best smog report before, worst ever after alignment. WTF!
2. Second. The tech didn't have a clues, as how VRGS works and how their alignment is done. He estimated, 10 hours shop time to do alignment. WTF, VGRS is a Lexus product.

This was once one of the best Lexus shop in North America. They moved to a new location, they built. You should see this place, WOW. They put so much money in the build. To help fund, they cut shops budget. Now they can't keep a good mechanic. Every years, it has about 80% turnover.

I'm not sure I'll go back, for the 2 alignments they still own me. It just costing me to much!

 

[Tx2006LC]

Hello again 2001LC

Thanks for all the help. Sorry to hear about your experience with the Lexus dealership. I am currently battling Toyota.


I picked up my vehicle last night, and here is what occurred.

• It took 45 minutes to retrieve my vehicle, despite the dealership not appearing busy.
• The vehicle was left at the drop-off area with the driver’s door and fuel door open, and the key missing. The service representative who brought it out walked past me without a word and went back inside.
• I had to track someone down just to get my key.
• During this time, I also witnessed another customer’s vehicle (a blue hybrid Toyota) being returned to her while making a loud metal-on-metal screeching sound—causing her to scream in distress. This was alarming and did not instill confidence.
• When I turned on my own vehicle, the check engine light immediately came on. I ran a diagnostic and it was the same codes. I drove less than 50 feet parked my vehicle and came back inside, but everyone had already left.
• The Service Manager confirmed this morning that a vacuum line had been disconnected, which triggered the check engine light.

Back to the sound i was experiencing initially.
When I heard that sound, i parked in the dealership and immediately went back and left my vehicle with them. I explained the sound, a service rep said he could hear it, than the manager of service managers also said they heard it. I left my vehicle with Toyota on April 10th. Before I went on vacation so they could fix it.

I noticed the sound when first pulling into a parking spot at nearly full left turn steering lock. People outside my car heard it and looked. It was a brief squeak. I reversed and re-parked and the sound happened at the exact same time and location when re-parking. I did this several times, all with the same outcome.

I then drove the vehicle in tight circles both right and left on a flat surface, without paint on the road. It continued to make the sound. It does not make it ever tire rotation, or even every multiple. It does not seem to be related to drive shaft rotation, or and engine belts. It only appeared to make the sound once every full circle the vehicle turned. No suspension articulation.

I have asked the dealership to take ownership of the issue with the sound when turning the vehicle at full lock. They have been in possession of my Land Cruiser nearly exclusively since Feb 20. The sound initiated during their possession.

Any ideas on what i can push them on to look at or help them to identify my sound? They said they will have the senior Shop foreman look.

What other info could I provide to help diagnose?

 

[Patron100LC]

Pretty much impossible to diagnose remotely.. a tire chirp? Cold steering fluid that made the vane pump stop for a fraction on a sec and made the belt chirp? A possum that was feeding her baby possums under your wheel? Who knows?..

This thread is yet another flower on the grave of the quality automotive repair business that's slowly but surely going away, all at fault should pay for it ... he.. forget it.. you know what I'm about.. not worth getting banned from this great place.

In summary, sorry for your troubles with you LC and your bitter and expensive experience, but you should NOT take your 25 YO luxury car to a teenage fest where the oldest thing they've seen is an iphone 12 and a 3 pedal manual is only a PS4 thing..

 

[2001LC]

Hello again 2001LC

Thanks for all the help. Sorry to hear about your experience with the Lexus dealership. I am currently battling Toyota.


I picked up my vehicle last night, and here is what occurred.

• It took 45 minutes to retrieve my vehicle, despite the dealership not appearing busy.
• The vehicle was left at the drop-off area with the driver’s door and fuel door open, and the key missing. The service representative who brought it out walked past me without a word and went back inside.
• I had to track someone down just to get my key.
• During this time, I also witnessed another customer’s vehicle (a blue hybrid Toyota) being returned to her while making a loud metal-on-metal screeching sound—causing her to scream in distress. This was alarming and did not instill confidence.
• When I turned on my own vehicle, the check engine light immediately came on. I ran a diagnostic and it was the same codes.

Same code being P0330 knock sensor?
Or the S.A.I. P1442 P1445 P2441?

• I drove less than 50 feet parked my vehicle and came back inside, but everyone had already left.
• The Service Manager confirmed this morning that a vacuum line had been disconnected, which triggered the check engine light.

Vacuum line left off can set off a DTC (CEL). Not a big deal

Back to the sound i was experiencing initially.
When I heard that sound, i parked in the dealership and immediately went back and left my vehicle with them. I explained the sound, a service rep said he could hear it, than the manager of service managers also said they heard it. I left my vehicle with Toyota on April 10th. Before I went on vacation so they could fix it.

I noticed the sound when first pulling into a parking spot at nearly full left turn steering lock. People outside my car heard it and looked. It was a brief squeak. I reversed and re-parked and the sound happened at the exact same time and location when re-parking. I did this several times, all with the same outcome.

I then drove the vehicle in tight circles both right and left on a flat surface, without paint on the road. It continued to make the sound. It does not make it ever tire rotation, or even every multiple. It does not seem to be related to drive shaft rotation, or and engine belts. It only appeared to make the sound once every full circle the vehicle turned. No suspension articulation.

I have asked the dealership to take ownership of the issue with the sound when turning the vehicle at full lock. They have been in possession of my Land Cruiser nearly exclusively since Feb 20. The sound initiated during their possession.

Any ideas on what i can push them on to look at or help them to identify my sound? They said they will have the senior Shop foreman look.

So sound still present, after they connected vacuum line?

What other info could I provide to help diagnose?

Is it from under the hood or undercarriage?