200-250 HP dilema - what would you do?

[MauricioR]

Hi guys, I recently purchased a bj40 with a 13B (non-turbo) engine, 4 speed everything OEM with power steering, brake disks and some other extras...
I usually drive a lot on very steep hills and also do 50/50 highway/town driving. (I do not tow)

I have an H151F/H2FA stored in my garage and got a friend willing to sell me a H55F (with bellhousing and transfer) as options to upgrade to a 5gear.

I would like to daily drive this car, but I have always had a need for power and I can't find my self with something with less than 200hp.
So... What would you do? Modify a 13BT/14BT/15B-FT ? Or simply put a LS gen 3 in there?

IDK what to do. I don't care about consumption, All I care is reliability and power.
All opinions will be heard. Thanks in advance!

 

[charliemeyer007]

When I learned to fly, the J3 Cub had a whopping 40 HP. I like RPM's myself, my second motorcycle was in the power band from 6000 to 9000. I was going to do a handbuilt 283 Vette motor with a 4sp T with the 3sp's transfer case to get that half gear lower.

 

[cruisermatt]

Power and reliability means LS
Would be nice with either the H151f (I would swap the Hf2a for a HF1a) or the H55f. Mark's makes a low profile adapter for the H151f

 

[FJBen]

LS.

You would have to dump a ton of money to get the 13b to 200hp. I also feel that 200hp is an arbitrary number since diesel feels different than an LS.

A 15bt/fte bolts” in like a 3b/13b series engine. Upgrading the turbo and pushing the fuel would get you close. The 15bft is 136hp, the 15bfte is 156hp. There might be some tuning mods for the fte engine since it’s electronically controlled…but possibly not.

Someone one here got 156hp to the crank on dyno with a 13bt upgraded turbo and fueling.

 

[sogncab]

Are those numbers you want at the ground or crank?

My engine is rated at 160hp, 310ft/lbs. It took 40hp to turn the wheels over on a dyno. That's with a rebuilt tranny, tcase, and axles.

25% driveline loss is pretty decent in my opinion.

It's not fast or quick. It is plenty streetable though. I don't feel I'm a danger because it won't accelerate well. The tired 2F on the other hand....

 

[Gearhead]

I did a 2UZ vvti swap on an H55f, 285hp 325 lb-ft torque. It was an expensive swap but so FUN to drive!
With an LS you'd get as much power for a lot less money and still FUN to drive!
If I was to do it over, I might go with a diesel...

 

[sogncab]

If I was to do it over, I might go with a diesel...

If I were to do it again, I'd choose a different diesel. The range is great, but the programming on the little cummins is fine on pavement, but leaves a lot to be desired off the pavement with a standard transmission.

 

[Tank5]

I installed a 2uzfe/5speed A750F/HF2A transfer case. I love it and wouldn’t do anything differently. Expense depends on how much of it you do yourself. The 2uz can be found in a number of platforms so finding a donor is not that difficult. Running it with a manual does increase the cost a bit. The 2uz non-vvti easily meets your hood specs.

I was advised that you can get more performance out of a 3uz if that matters.

Like others said though an LS would be cheaper.

I had a 3B before. I wouldn’t spend any time on it. Sell it an buy what you want.

 

[MauricioR]

Are those numbers you want at the ground or crank?

My engine is rated at 160hp, 310ft/lbs. It took 40hp to turn the wheels over on a dyno. That's with a rebuilt tranny, tcase, and axles.

25% driveline loss is pretty decent in my opinion.

It's not fast or quick. It is plenty streetable though. I don't feel I'm a danger because it won't accelerate well. The tired 2F on the other hand....

Yeah, I want 200-250 to the ground. The need for power is to be able to merge on the highway or overtaking easily... I have had more scares with slow cars than fast ones.

If I were to do it again, I'd choose a different diesel. The range is great, but the programming on the little cummins is fine on pavement, but leaves a lot to be desired off the pavement with a standard transmission.

I've been thinking about that... Diesel feels very powerful due to the low torque. I was able to get close to 200hp at the wheels on a 1HDT time ago, so I thought maybe a B series could get there because of the similar CC (I don't want a 1HD)... I was also thinking about a cummins 4BT but I hate the rattle on these motors.

I installed a 2uzfe/5speed A750F/HF2A transfer case. I love it and wouldn’t do anything differently. Expense depends on how much of it you do yourself. The 2uz can be found in a number of platforms so finding a donor is not that difficult. Running it with a manual does increase the cost a bit. The 2uz non-vvti easily meets your hood specs.

I was advised that you can get more performance out of a 3uz if that matters.

Like others said though an LS would be cheaper.

I had a 3B before. I wouldn’t spend any time on it. Sell it an buy what you want.

Brother I wish I could use a 2uzfe, but that engine is not common nor know anybody that can have one here, I might need to import it from the US which is expensive.

It seems the LS is the safest & cheapest option. Maybe with the H55F to keep the classic 40s shifting feeling.
I'll create a post once I start the project, thanks all

 

[archie73]

It seems the LS is the safest & cheapest option. Maybe with the H55F to keep the classic 40s shifting feeling.
I'll create a post once I start the project, thanks all

If the LS is common down there, I’d do that again and again. It’s all mapped out and you don’t seem worried about keeping it Toyota. I have an sm465 behind my 5.3- that’ll give you the tractor feeling. It was a step up from the oem 3speed, but not much in drivability. 60mph is good with 35’s. 70 is doable, but local law frowns on it. I’ve done 80, once

 

[MauricioR]

If the LS is common down there, I’d do that again and again. It’s all mapped out and you don’t seem worried about keeping it Toyota. I have an sm465 behind my 5.3- that’ll give you the tractor feeling. It was a step up from the oem 3speed, but not much in drivability. 60mph is good with 35’s. 70 is doable, but local law frowns on it. I’ve done 80, once

LS is common and cheap here. Honestly all I want is to keep the car until the end of my days so keeping it Toyota is not a concern. I will save the 13B just in case.
What I can tell you is that I want the looks to be OEM, rims, tires, paint, emblems, height... pretty much everything from the outside.
Let's see how it goes.

 

[sogncab]

I've been thinking about that... Diesel feels very powerful due to the low torque. I was able to get close to 200hp at the wheels on a 1HDT time ago, so I thought maybe a B series could get there because of the similar CC (I don't want a 1HD)... I was also thinking about a cummins 4BT but I hate the rattle on these motors.

I'd do a Mercedes om606 if I were to do it again I think.

300hp and 5-600ft/lbs would be easy to accomplish

Those engines are prevalent on every continent I think.

 

[archie73]

If I were to do it again, I'd choose a different diesel. The range is great, but the programming on the little cummins is fine on pavement, but leaves a lot to be desired off the pavement with a standard transmission.

I’m curious on the reasons you feel this way? Is it a power band issue? Ie the hp/torque comes on too high in the rpm’s?

 

[Wasatch Jay]

Since charliemeyer007 opened the door to an aviation power comparison, I'll share an aviation quote when it come to engine power:

"A lot is good, more is better, and too much is just about right".

I have an LS1 in my FJ40 along with a NV4500 5-speed manual. In my opinion the gear ratios of the NV4500 are better suited to the power of the LS engines than those of a H55F. Fifth gear on a NV4500 is .73:1, a 27% overdrive, whereas the H55F's fifth gear is .845:1. That's only a 15.5 % overdrive. There were some different first and second gear ratios on the NV4500 depending on application. For GM NV4500 transmissions, 5.61:1 is the most common first gear ratio. (For comparison the H55F is 4.84:1)

The LS series engines have a lot of power, great reliability and there is excellent aftermarket support for swaps. Parts availability is oustanding.

 

[sogncab]

I’m curious on the reasons you feel this way? Is it a power band issue? Ie the hp/torque comes on too high in the rpm’s?

At zero throttle position it'll stall where it really shouldn't.

Power is a little peaky, but it could also fuel harder earlier.

Both can be negated with clutch abuse.

It doesn't need more power for what I do with it, but the way it's managed could be better.

 

[MauricioR]

From personal experience these are my believes....
Diesels are perfect and un-matched when off-roading, the low-end torque is incredibly useful. I have seen slow B engines passing like nothing where as powerful gasolines cannot. I drove all Costa Rica with an old 78 with a slow B and there was no river or mud part that I couldn't pass. On my 80 series I got a Cummins with a tremendous low torque, there is no V8 to match this... ~800ft-lbs of torque at ~1600rpm. The only problem with modified diesels is that they like to break stuff on the drivetrain.

On the other side, gasoline engines are perfect for street driving. I prefer a well-tuned 2F way more than a 13BT or 1HDT. I remember a friend of mine raced me getting out of a toll, I was driving my 1HD-T with 35s tires on my 80 series against his 40 series, 2F with 37s, I lost the race pretty bad.
Gasolines usually like to rev higher and the higher the revs, higher the power on the majority of them. The downside from my opinion is their consumption and electronics.

Obviously there is space for discussion on this, like the chevy 6.2 LT4 SC with very good low-end torque or the OM606 which likes to rev very high. But in a generalized world... Diesel is best for offroad and Gasoline is best for the street. Towing is another topic as well...
"Many men - many minds"

 

[Vossie]

1UZ vvti and 5 speed auto a650 in mine and stand alone ECU. Stock numbers on the engine are 296hp but I should be well over 300 with my intake, exhaust and I'm running a fairly aggressive tune on it.

It's an absolute blast to drive! Most fun than you can have with your clothes on
She will run a true standing start to 60 in 8.1 sec if I lean on her hard.

My part of the world we don't have access to the LS platform like you guys do, so for me the UZ was the best option. No regrets at all.

 

[pb4ugo]

Since charliemeyer007 opened the door to an aviation power comparison, I'll share an aviation quote when it come to engine power:

"A lot is good, more is better, and too much is just about right".

I have an LS1 in my FJ40 along with a NV4500 5-speed manual. In my opinion the gear ratios of the NV4500 are better suited to the power of the LS engines than those of a H55F. Fifth gear on a NV4500 is .73:1, a 27% overdrive, whereas the H55F's fifth gear is .845:1. That's only a 15.5 % overdrive. There were some different first and second gear ratios on the NV4500 depending on application. For GM NV4500 transmissions, 5.61:1 is the most common first gear ratio. (For comparison the H55F is 4.84:1)

The LS series engines have a lot of power, great reliability and there is excellent aftermarket support for swaps. Parts availability is oustanding.

^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^

I've been running sbc's for decades. V8's in a FJ4X are my preference. Maybe someday I'll go to a 5.3. I know the LS is better performing and more efficient, but I can't stand looking at them. One of my 40s has a po installed 1st gen NV4500 with the 6.34:1 1st gear. It's 5th gear(.73%) is perfect for a V8. I would think the h55 5th gear wouldn't be enuff overdrive.

Sometime in the future, I'll be using the NV4500 and adapt a split case for the added strength and low range gearing options.