2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion (8 Viewers)

[m4hk33]

I'm not sure what the logic is in keeping on with a bunch of midsize variants that are functional equivalents. It's a lot of parts and product supply chain management to do for limited benefit. We should learn more soon about what the lineup looks like for the near future. Long term it'll probably drop down to only 1 or 2 remaining BOF SUVs as things go EV, but I think we're one more generation of products from that.

Were it me as head of marketing the model lineup would be

Full Size SUC = Sequoia (same as current sequoia, but offer non-hybrid option with decent cargo capacity and awd transfer case) TTV6 or TTV6 hybrid.
Midsize SUV = Land Cruiser 300 - or equivalent more boxy lC70 styling and more cargo capacity, T4 Hybrid or TTV6.
Small BOF SUV = 4Runner (current Fortuner styled for NA market, 105" wb) T4 or NA4 Hybrid
Offroad BOF Wrangler/Bronco = FJ Cruiser (New model that's FJ40 or LC70? style) T4 or TTV6

4 doesn't seem like it's too much considering for example in Costa Rica Toyota offers all 6 of these for MY2023:

Fortuner
FJ Cruiser
LC70
Prado
4Runner
LC300

Toyota Costa Rica | Grupo Purdy | 4Runner

La 4Runner es un clásico en el mundo de los doble tracción, su nivel de robustez siempre lo ha caracterizado, es un vehículo que dejará huella en el segmento de vehículos off road.

www.toyotacr.com

I agree but even the distinction between their full size and midsize is makes no sense anymore.

Traditionally,
The Sequoia is around 8 inches longer than the LC/LX and came with 120cu.ft of cargo space vs 80 cu.ft of cargo space.

Today
The Sequoia is still around 8 inches longer than the LC/LX and comes with 86cu.ft vs 64 cu.ft of cargo space.

in perspective.
Full size, Sequoia has 86 cu.ft
Mid Size LC/LX 300 has 64 cu.ft
Mid Size 4 runner has 90 cu.ft
Mid Size GX 64cu.ft

I have no clue what the value proposition is supposed to be in their line up.
Sequoia= Full Size SUV with a mid size cargo area, @$65K
LX= Ultra Premium, Mid size SUV with base model engine.@$100K
GX= 8 inches short than the LX but about half the price and same cargo volume@$60K
4R= Worst in class MPG's, low HP/TQ, best in cargo space and clearance.@$40K

If the Sequoia dropped their retarded hybrid only option that wrecks cargo space, for $65K, it becomes way more interesting
If Toyota sold same Land Cruiser in the US that they sell in the UAE for $65K, it becomes way more interesting.

 

[Mbarron37]

The all new Sequoia is a joke. Why buy a full size SUV with little cargo space? The outgoing Sequoia was great, tons of cargo space. Not sure who is driving the bus at Toyota.

 

[m4hk33]

The all new Sequoia is a joke. Why buy a full size SUV with little cargo space? The outgoing Sequoia was great, tons of cargo space. Not sure who is driving the bus at Toyota.

It's so poorly thought out that it even has less cargo room than the new grand highlander.

The sequioa needs to be a reliable yukon with lockers. 65k to 90k

The 300 needs to have 3 trims. 65k,90k,120k

The 4runner/GX need a modern drive train. Same price points.

The rest of the suv/cut lineup are interchangeable appliances

 

[Jetboy]

This is the explanation I've heard.

About 5ish years ago the new Tundra and Sequoia were intended to have a separate HD platform and drivetrain. The GA-F platform isn't strong enough for the drivetrain and capacity they wanted. it's designed for lighter vehicles. And they were going to get v8s including a new turbo V8 and updated UR hybrid combo. The HD chassis would have accommodated the IRS Sequoia and the hybrid system better without that s***ty cargo situation.

But Toyota corporate doesn't like the models much and pointed to Tesla success for justification to kill the HD platform and forced the North America design team to scale them down to the GA-F platform. I don't know the logic to go from Tesla to killing the HD chassis, but that's the idea. And that killed the big engines and the potential for an HD tundra. And it forced the Sequoia to have a lot of compromises.

The bigger platform would have offered a Lexus Sequoia on top of the LX with a turbo V8.

I don't know who's driving the ship. But it seems like the Capitan and crew want to different places and they're stuck half way to nowhere as a result.

 

[greynolds]

This is the explanation I've heard.

About 5ish years ago the new Tundra and Sequoia were intended to have a separate HD platform and drivetrain. And they were going to get v8s including a new turbo V8 and updated UR hybrid combo. The HD chassis would have accommodated the IRS Sequoia and the hybrid system better without that s***ty cargo situation. But Toyota corporate doesn't like the models much and pointed to Tesla success for justification to kill the HD platform and forced the North America design team to scale them down to the GA-F platform. I don't know the logic to go from Tesla to killing the HD chassis, but that's the idea. And that killed the big engines and the potential for an HD tundra. And it forced the Sequoia to have a lot of compromises.

The bigger platform would have offered a Lexus Sequoia on top of the LX with a turbo V8.

I don't know who's driving the ship. But it seems like the Capitan and crew want to different places and they're stuck half way to nowhere as a result.

Energy consumption considerations are most likely one of the big factors here as pretty much everyone is pretty quickly eliminating V8's from their offerings at this point. I have no clue if the HD chassis could have worked with a hybrid, all electric, or hydrogen setup while retaining the other advantages of more cargo space, etc.

 

[Jetboy]

I think your right that it was for efficiency. But unfortunately I'm not sure the v35a made any efficiency gains. The anecdotal reports suggest it's only marginally more efficient than the v8 despite major aerodynamic changes. I do think the power is much improved at the expense of a lot of extra manufacturing cost and lower reliability.

And a 14mpg v8 Sequoia or tundra would be a nonstarter. Probably. Even as a true 2500 truck. The Nissan Titan for example was a flop. But the raptor r and trx are big successes. Id imagine Toyota could still have offered the turbo 6 and V8 options

What I don't get mostly is the battery choice. Same capacity lithium batteries would fit inside the floor or along the frame rail. And solve the problem. They're much smaller and lighter. A battery pack the size Toyota used should be enough for a phev if it used modern battery chemistry. I think Toyota got caught flat footed and severely lacks battery capacity.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

I'm not sure it'll be fj40 styled. That style is really hard to do on a modern wagon. I'm not totally sure it can be done well. My guess is that it'll be styled like a lc70 but underpinning will be shared with the 4runner. I don't see that doing well if that's all it is. Why would you buy it over the 4runner? It needs something more.

A vehicle badged as a Land Cruiser that is convertible with either J70 or even 4Runner/PRADO drivetrain?
I'd buy one new off the lot tomorrow at full MSRP and be very happy about that.

Not being convertible is why I think Toyota completely missed the mark with the FJ Cruiser at least for me to buy one.

 

[desmocruiser]

Not to get into politics, but Biden’s return to the more stringent CAFE fuel economy regulations setup during the Obama administration have very likely come into play into a decision for Toyota and a new Land Cruiser in the US like it or not.

Even at 8-10k units per year a non domestic produced SUV averaging 19 epa tested mpg will have an impact when you are trying to reach 37.5 and higher in future years overall light duty truck fleet mpg, this impact is magnified by slower production/sales of the other Toyota models.

With all the uncertainty that you read about regarding supply chain, world economy, etc. combined with high level change at Toyota, I don’t expect a 300 at anytime in the near future and a Halo Land Cruiser intro of any version is probably a fluid decision and risky bet in my opinion.

 

[Jetboy]

The trx, bronco, raptor, all work. Toyota would have no problem meeting the cafe standards if they weren't 5-10 years behind on battery production. The RAV4 prime would be selling probably 200 k + units at 94mpge if they could produce them.

 

[desmocruiser]

The trx, bronco, raptor, all work. Toyota would have no problem meeting the cafe standards if they weren't 5-10 years behind on battery production. The RAV4 prime would be selling probably 200 k + units at 94mpge if they could produce them.

That was the some of the point to the post, the fewer high mpg vehicles produced by Toyota lowers the chances of a 300 series here.

As far as a halo Land Cruiser being a Bronco, Jeep fighter, could be, I just don’t think that has been decided. From the beginning my guess in what it will be a is lighter weight Prado based variant, when is a bigger question.

 

[stonepa]

There is always the latest Nissan Armada. And yes, I’m being serious. I don’t plan on needing anything for quite a while but if my 200 was totaled tomorrow i’d most likely buy a new Armada and save the $25-30k over a used 200. Even if I could actually buy a new toyota, only the 4Runner interests me and it doesn’t tow enough. Toyota doesn’t appear to build now or in the near future anything that appeals to me.

That would be sad after driving Land Cruisers since 1987.

 

[Jetboy]

That was the some of the point to the post, the fewer high mpg vehicles produced by Toyota lowers the chances of a 300 series here.

As far as a halo Land Cruiser being a Bronco, Jeep fighter, could be, I just don’t think that has been decided. From the beginning my guess in what it will be a is lighter weight Prado based variant, when is a bigger question.

It's coming as a 2024 model year. Release Q3 of 2023.

 

[UZJ100LC]

have you guys seen this video?

The new sequoia has 3 radiators, 3 cooling systems, 2 air boxes, 2 MAFs. cooling channels between the cylinders. The complexity is absolutely off the charts. I pray this is not how new Toyota 4x4s vehicles will be from here on out. I might have to keep my 240k miles 100 series forever....

 

[greynolds]

There is always the latest Nissan Armada. And yes, I’m being serious. I don’t plan on needing anything for quite a while but if my 200 was totaled tomorrow i’d most likely buy a new Armada and save the $25-30k over a used 200. Even if I could actually buy a new toyota, only the 4Runner interests me and it doesn’t tow enough. Toyota doesn’t appear to build now or in the near future anything that appeals to me.

That would be sad after driving Land Cruisers since 1987.

Agreed. I had a rental Armada for a trip out west a year or so before the pandemic and was surprised how much I liked it. It had plenty of power, handled well for what it is, was comfortable for long drives, etc. This was while I still had a G-wagon, so before my LC200, though I had previously owned a LX470. They aren't as capable as our 200 series off the pavement, but if I'm being completely honest, that really wouldn't be an issue for me. When I decided to trade in the G-wagon, I debated about going with an Armada instead of the LC, but I was concerned about Nissan's long term viability and decided to go with the LC.

 

[m4hk33]

Agreed. I had a rental Armada for a trip out west a year or so before the pandemic and was surprised how much I liked it. It had plenty of power, handled well for what it is, was comfortable for long drives, etc. This was while I still had a G-wagon, so before my LC200, though I had previously owned a LX470. They aren't as capable as our 200 series off the pavement, but if I'm being completely honest, that really wouldn't be an issue for me. When I decided to trade in the G-wagon, I debated about going with an Armada instead of the LC, but I was concerned about Nissan's long term viability and decided to go with the LC.

I work in the Middle East and we recently got a new Armada as Toyota was sandbagging on the Sequoia release, and Toyota decided to absurdly price the LX.

I think alot of our perception on capability was really born out of triple locked 80 series but i am not sure how true that perception holds up 3 generations removed from the 80 series. Todays reality is that even kia can put together a vehicle that can do stuff like hells gate with appropriate tires.

I do have have concerns regarding the long term viability of the Armada, BUT, across the board, cars have gotten a lot better in all quantifiable areas and I am not sure that Toyota has kept pace.

I am not making the argument that the Armada is in anyway more capable than the 200/300 series, only that I think it might be much closer than we may have previously believed and that petrol is being seen as a far more viable option in the Middle East and Australia simply based on Toyota missteps.

If Toyota Sold their $65K LC300 in the US, I would lean heavily towards the 300 over the Armada.

 

[m4hk33]

There is always the latest Nissan Armada. And yes, I’m being serious. I don’t plan on needing anything for quite a while but if my 200 was totaled tomorrow i’d most likely buy a new Armada and save the $25-30k over a used 200. Even if I could actually buy a new toyota, only the 4Runner interests me and it doesn’t tow enough. Toyota doesn’t appear to build now or in the near future anything that appeals to me.

That would be sad after driving Land Cruisers since 1987.

This is sort of where we found ourselves and ended up with the Armada.

I think i would be willing to roll the dice on SR5 Sequoia if they didnt fumble the cargo area.

 

[m4hk33]

Not to get into politics, but Biden’s return to the more stringent CAFE fuel economy regulations setup during the Obama administration have very likely come into play into a decision for Toyota and a new Land Cruiser in the US like it or not.

Even at 8-10k units per year a non domestic produced SUV averaging 19 epa tested mpg will have an impact when you are trying to reach 37.5 and higher in future years overall light duty truck fleet mpg, this impact is magnified by slower production/sales of the other Toyota models.

With all the uncertainty that you read about regarding supply chain, world economy, etc. combined with high level change at Toyota, I don’t expect a 300 at anytime in the near future and a Halo Land Cruiser intro of any version is probably a fluid decision and risky bet in my opinion.

I agree with much of this BUT, I would offer the criticism that the 300 series is already being sold in the US as the LX600 so I am not sure how risky it would be to put a different bumper on it and swap out the leather seat covers for softex, rip out the stupid 3rd row that nobody asked for , slap 65k on it and be done with the matter. 90 percent of Lexus's line at 60k or below. simple shift the 3 trim levels from 90/110/130 to 65/90/110 and have the ultra lux trim simply be 2nd row captains chair option like every other manufacture offers.


These are all self inflicted errors.

Sequoia
LX
highlander
4runner
GX
rav 4
carolla

With the exception of the 4 runner, all are being marketed towards the soccer mom that needs to run to target demo when there is a giant off road segment that is on fire right now and can be addressed with a 2 inch lift and 35 inch tire options.

 

[Specialeyes]

I agree with much of this BUT, I would offer the criticism that the 300 series is already being sold in the US as the LX600 so I am not sure how risky it would be to put a different bumper on it and swap out the leather seat covers for softex, rip out the stupid 3rd row that nobody asked for , slap 65k on it and be done with the matter. 90 percent of Lexus's line at 60k or below. simple shift the 3 trim levels from 90/110/130 to 65/90/110 and have the ultra lux trim simply be 2nd row captains chair option like every other manufacture offers.


These are all self inflicted errors.

Sequoia
LX
highlander
4runner
GX
rav 4
carolla

With the exception of the 4 runner, all are being marketed towards the soccer mom that needs to run to target demo when there is a giant off road segment that is on fire right now and can be addressed with a 2 inch lift and 35 inch tire options.

You can make an exception for the GX as well over the last 18-24 months. I’ve noticed a few Lexus adverts marketing it as the “go anywhere adventure vehicle” it can be.

While I think this helped to sell a few more of the ‘22-‘23 models this seems to be more posturing for the GX redesign which is rumored to very off road focused and finally embrace its off road underpinnings. THIS is where I truly think the new Land Cruiser is coming from as it just makes logical sense being that the current GX is a Land Cruiser Prado which also happens to be scheduled for a redesign soon.

So 2024 GX550 and 2024 Land Cruiser (maybe they drop the Prado name for North America?) Same SUV’s just with different body panels, engines, and interiors.

 

[m4hk33]

You can make an exception for the GX as well over the last 18-24 months. I’ve noticed a few Lexus adverts marketing it as the “go anywhere adventure vehicle” it can be.

While I think this helped to sell a few more of the ‘22-‘23 models this seems to be more posturing for the GX redesign which is rumored to very off road focused and finally embrace its off road underpinnings. THIS is where I truly think the new Land Cruiser is coming from as it just makes logical sense being that the current GX is a Land Cruiser Prado which also happens to be scheduled for a redesign soon.

So 2024 GX550 and 2024 Land Cruiser (maybe they drop the Prado name for North America?) Same SUV’s just with different body panels, engines, and interiors.

interesting,

Since I spend most of my time in the Middle East, definitely missed that. We considered the GX and I liked that it still had the V8 but its just too small. If the GX/4Runner are redesigned to take on that outdoor adventure role, i would be ok with that. While I prefer a larger vehicle for general purpose family stuff, I could definitely live with a Prado/4 door bronco size vehicle that I can accommodate a decent amount of guns and ammo and head up into the mountains.

Untill then, I will mess around with the Armada, so far it seems pretty good and they have been growing on me since they are all over the place over here. I am trying to convince the wife to throw those absurde 22 inch rims in the Potomac and replace them with some 35's on 18 inch rims. I really just need to have them swapped out the next time she ask me to take in for a oil change.

 

[greynolds]

I work in the Middle East and we recently got a new Armada as Toyota was sandbagging on the Sequoia release, and Toyota decided to absurdly price the LX.

I think alot of our perception on capability was really born out of triple locked 80 series but i am not sure how true that perception holds up 3 generations removed from the 80 series. Todays reality is that even kia can put together a vehicle that can do stuff like hells gate with appropriate tires.

I do have have concerns regarding the long term viability of the Armada, BUT, across the board, cars have gotten a lot better in all quantifiable areas and I am not sure that Toyota has kept pace.

I am not making the argument that the Armada is in anyway more capable than the 200/300 series, only that I think it might be much closer than we may have previously believed and that petrol is being seen as a far more viable option in the Middle East and Australia simply based on Toyota missteps.

If Toyota Sold their $65K LC300 in the US, I would lean heavily towards the 300 over the Armada.

Do they call it the Armada or Patrol over there (pretty much the same vehicle, mostly I'm just curious). The one knock on the Armada in the USA is that it supposedly has a less robust rear drivetrain than the Patrol does elsewhere. But again, for 99% of use, it really doesn't matter and it's hard to ignore the price difference. The Infiniti QX80 sibling is also available here if one wants nicer leather and is still priced pretty reasonably.