2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion (2 Viewers)

[on the rocks]

Sorry, but I completely disagree unless Toyota has lost it more than everyone thinks. Post FJ40 the LC has never been a Wrangler/ Bronco buster and should never be, it also doesn't make any sense in their SUV lineup or the LC heritage. They are simply starting to downsize their lineup to better align with their ultimate goal of zero emissions which means they can no longer continue down the lost road they took in the late 90's when the goal was bigger is better. Why does everyone insist this will be a retro FJ40? Have you seen the new 2024 GH? Their proclaimed boxy design is far from what people would think "boxy" means. If they go this route, its pretty clear they should just Americanize the current 70 series.
The LC was redesigned to compete with the Defender, Tahoe, Expedition field and the 4R will never fill this void. They have been missing this market for quite some time and it would make so much more sense than a targeted Wrangler competition.

Naturally as they downsize the motors and go electric they need to follow suit with smaller footprint vehicles. If you look at the official Toyota release of the LC 300 their main goal was to realign and get back to the earlier model LC design and specifically their best selling, best designed offload 80 series. If you haven't seen the release video, go back and fully watch it, were they just feeding everyone full of a bunch of BS? You have to look beyond thinking they are applying this only to the 300 series. They say nothing about a removable top bronco buster Land Cruiser in the works..... Unfortunatly this also include an American 70 series.
It may not be a solid axle vehicle but they made it pretty clear they are likely to model the 4 cylinder hybrid motor combined second electric rear axle drive motor. Combined out put should easily be far and above previous V8 models and work well if they pull it off.

For the 4R, they are going to bleed it to death, see how the market plays out and maybe do the drop top as the GEN 1 4R had and pull off their mass market bronco buster then. It's still selling well so they have to make money somehow while they realign their lineup. It makes so much sense with their history and direction they seem to be going. The impatient 4R owners will make the move the to LC and realize where they should have been all along. 4 door drop top, sure, 2 door short version, maybe, 4 door boxy smaller truck, why not , just not likely to have a LC badge if for the cheap masses.

 

[Coupedncal]

I will take a more simplistic approach.

Q: What segment is Toyota not serving today. Answer: it is the Wrangler / Bronco segment.
Q: What segment is turning out to be a cash cow for other OEMs? Answer: the Wrangler / Bronco segment.
Q: What were the original roots of Landcruiser model? Answer: An FJ40
Q: What new segment is least likely to overlap with an existing model in the lineup? Answer: The Wrangler / Bronco type model.

Why would they bring in another boxy midsize model that will directly compete with 4R and indirectly with the GH and the Sequoia.

A fair compromise if they must stick to the current common chassis is to follow the Defender template but somehow make it different enough that 4R is not compromised.

 

[Jetboy]

I can't really speak to the marketing at Toyota. What we know is that the Sequoia is the full size SUV from Toyota for North America. And the new 4R will be a MY2025. Assuming the 4R doesn't change much, the missing vehicle from the lineup is an off-road model more to the off-road end of the spectrum from the 4runner.

I don't think it much matters what label they put on what vehicle. If Toyota wanted to call the HD wagon a Land Cruiser, they would have put that name on the new Sequoia.

I'm not sure it'll be fj40 styled. That style is really hard to do on a modern wagon. I'm not totally sure it can be done well. My guess is that it'll be styled like a lc70 but underpinning will be shared with the 4runner. I don't see that doing well if that's all it is. Why would you buy it over the 4runner? It needs something more.

Maybe "something more" is lc300 running gear? I have no idea. What seems pretty unlikely is that it'll be an LC300.

 

[m4hk33]

Kinda relaying info from another pretty reliable source - carmaker1. Take it with a grain of salt:

New Taco drops around April 5th - probably debut and be on display on NYIAS.

June 1st or later in the summer, the 2024 MY Land Cruiser will be revealed.

4Runner is not being delayed or redesigned to compete with the Bronco/Wrangler. It will continue its mission statement and not deviate.

(Assuming that's correct - an evolutionary update. Presumably stays a 2/3 row BOF SUV with 4 doors and ranges from $40-60k. I'd guess it retains similar boxy styling and 110-114" wheelbase. Unfortunately it probably means the top engine is a T24A. I think the 4runner mission statement has always been 2cyl short of a decent powerplant.)

The Land Cruiser will be the bronco/wrangler competitor from Toyota with the prestige nameplate and higher price.

My editorialization: The Land Cruiser nameplate isn't worth a lot in North America to most buyers. I wouldn't pay more for a 4Runner if they swap the badge to say Land Cruiser. The Land Cruiser Prado is less expensive than the 4Runner in the markets they both exist. If it's not a removeable top, as the suggestion that it is the same vehicle as the new GX will be implies - I'm not sure how Toyota will differentiate it from the 4Runner. It can't just be a 4 door BOF wagon that's the same size but more expensive. No one will buy it. And I don't think anyone really wants a short wheelbase 4Runner that costs more..

Where does that leave it? I'm not sure. Very curious to see what actually comes out. If it's anything like the recent BOF models - it'll just be a retro styled 4Runner with poor visibility, a LC badge, and a higher price tag.

Its somewhat difficult to guess what direction Toyota is trying to go. It seem like for the past decade their product line up in the US seems to undermine itself.

Not interested in a Sequoia with a retarded cargo area for hybrid TT 3.5 $65K
Not interested in a LX600 with a base model motor for a $100K
Some interest in a Tundra with the upgraded motor for 65K
Very interested in the base model LC that is sold in the UEA for 65-70K

All of this s*** is built on the same platform and somehow able to nail the 65k price point except in the worlds largest car market. It will be interesting to see how they complete the Prado against the 4 runner vs the GX.

 

[greynolds]

In the meantime, at least we can enjoy our current LC200's as they will most likely manage to stay road worthy for another few years .

 

[Specialeyes]

Maybe "something more" is lc300 running gear? I have no idea. What seems pretty unlikely is that it'll be an LC300.

Herein lies the problem. Toyota should have just given us the 300 Series with 2-3 trim levels (a good, better, best type of range) and called it a day. Personally I found the LC later in life and as it stands now I may never own one because I A.) Prefer to buy new and B.) The number of low mileage, used vehicles are dwindling in numbers and/or are over priced. If the LC 300 was coming here I would have happily given Mr Toyota some more of my money.

I know the 300 hasn’t been universally well received but what new vehicle has? Certainly none that I can recall over the last couple of decades.

 

[greynolds]

Herein lies the problem. Toyota should have just given us the 300 Series with 2-3 trim levels (a good, better, best type of range) and called it a day. Personally I found the LC later in life and as it stands now I may never own one because I A.) Prefer to buy new and B.) The number of low mileage, used vehicles are dwindling in numbers and/or are over priced. If the LC 300 was coming here I would have happily given Mr Toyota some more of my money.

I know the 300 hasn’t been universally well received but what new vehicle has? Certainly none that I can recall over the last couple of decades.

It's not as simple as that because the lower trim levels would directly compete with the Sequoia. Unless I'm mistaken, the Sequoia is a USA only model, so they don't have this same issue in other markets. I think they rightfully feel they need the Sequoia here because it's a bit bigger than the LC and therefore works better competing with the Tahoe, etc. But it's so similar to the LC overall that having both models in their lineup at similar price points wouldn't make any sense.

Unless I'm mistaken, the 4Runner is also a USA only model and they have the Prado instead elsewhere, so they don't have an overlap issue there either.

The 70 series differentiates itself enough from the LC200/LC300 and so there isn't an issue with the 70 series coexisting with the LC300 even if some trim levels overlap on price.

The closest option Toyota has to the Wrangler and Bronco in the USA is currently the 4Runner which really isn't similar enough to really grab those customers. I don't really care if they were to call a vehicle of this type a Land Cruiser or something else, but it seems like an obvious place to add another vehicle to their lineup.

I think one thing is certain - Toyota will continue to sell a lot of vehicles and make a lot of money and they really do know what they're doing. Whether they will release the product(s) that will satisfy each of us remains an open question until they actually make formal announcements. At the end of the day, we're just armchair quarterbacks in this game...

 

[cruiserdan]

It's not as simple as that because the lower trim levels would directly compete with the Sequoia. Unless I'm mistaken, the Sequoia is a USA only model, so they don't have this same issue in other markets. I think they rightfully feel they need the Sequoia here because it's a bit bigger than the LC and therefore works better competing with the Tahoe, etc. But it's so similar to the LC overall that having both models in their lineup at similar price points wouldn't make any sense.

The Sequoia is produced in the US... No import tariff = more profit.

 

[Jetboy]

I'm not sure what the logic is in keeping on with a bunch of midsize variants that are functional equivalents. It's a lot of parts and product supply chain management to do for limited benefit. We should learn more soon about what the lineup looks like for the near future. Long term it'll probably drop down to only 1 or 2 remaining BOF SUVs as things go EV, but I think we're one more generation of products from that.

Were it me as head of marketing the model lineup would be

Full Size SUC = Sequoia (same as current sequoia, but offer non-hybrid option with decent cargo capacity and awd transfer case) TTV6 or TTV6 hybrid.
Midsize SUV = Land Cruiser 300 - or equivalent more boxy lC70 styling and more cargo capacity, T4 Hybrid or TTV6.
Small BOF SUV = 4Runner (current Fortuner styled for NA market, 105" wb) T4 or NA4 Hybrid
Offroad BOF Wrangler/Bronco = FJ Cruiser (New model that's FJ40 or LC70? style) T4 or TTV6

4 doesn't seem like it's too much considering for example in Costa Rica Toyota offers all 6 of these for MY2023:

Fortuner
FJ Cruiser
LC70
Prado
4Runner
LC300

Toyota Costa Rica | Grupo Purdy | 4Runner

La 4Runner es un clásico en el mundo de los doble tracción, su nivel de robustez siempre lo ha caracterizado, es un vehículo que dejará huella en el segmento de vehículos off road.

www.toyotacr.com

 

[Specialeyes]

It’s blurring lines a bit but there are people (myself included) who crossed shopped the 4Runner and Bronco. Obviously I chose the 4Runner. It really is a solid all around package for a DD and off roader. Just a little too bare bones for my boujee self

If I were running the show I’d update the 4R and make it the Bronco/Wrangler competitor. I’d have the 300 Series in the middle of that line up as a slightly larger 2 row, 5 seater. Finally I would keep the Sequoia as the big full size family hauler (7 passengers+) and go back to the drawing board on that 3rd row and rear cargo design.

These 3 could all be BOF TNGA-F SUV’s and you could still have the Highlander and RAV4 for those who want a unibody cross over.

 

[Cincodemustache]

Purely my speculation. I said this in another thread about the mystery 300 seen on a carrier in Chicago area. It’s not coming here to the US.

Look no further than the next gen GX. It has a close platform brother. My prediction and money is there. Stateside “Land Cruiser” in 2024.

 

[OGBeno]

I'm not sure what the logic is in keeping on with a bunch of midsize variants that are functional equivalents. It's a lot of parts and product supply chain management to do for limited benefit. We should learn more soon about what the lineup looks like for the near future. Long term it'll probably drop down to only 1 or 2 remaining BOF SUVs as things go EV, but I think we're one more generation of products from that.

Were it me as head of marketing the model lineup would be

Full Size SUC = Sequoia (same as current sequoia, but offer non-hybrid option with decent cargo capacity and awd transfer case) TTV6 or TTV6 hybrid.
Midsize SUV = Land Cruiser 300 - or equivalent more boxy lC70 styling and more cargo capacity, T4 Hybrid or TTV6.
Small BOF SUV = 4Runner (current Fortuner styled for NA market, 105" wb) T4 or NA4 Hybrid
Offroad BOF Wrangler/Bronco = FJ Cruiser (New model that's FJ40 or LC70? style) T4 or TTV6

4 doesn't seem like it's too much considering for example in Costa Rica Toyota offers all 6 of these for MY2023:

Fortuner
FJ Cruiser
LC70
Prado
4Runner
LC300

Toyota Costa Rica | Grupo Purdy | 4Runner

La 4Runner es un clásico en el mundo de los doble tracción, su nivel de robustez siempre lo ha caracterizado, es un vehículo que dejará huella en el segmento de vehículos off road.

www.toyotacr.com

Marketing has nothing to do with the offered lineup; they merely do their best to sell widgets.

It's the product planners and bean counters who pull all of the strings.

 

[Jetboy]

Marketing has nothing to do with the offered lineup; they merely do their best to sell widgets.

It's the product planners and bean counters who pull all of the strings.

I was thinking marketing in the broad sense of product, price, place, and promotion. I'm sure there is a group of high level execs who plan the markets and products. I'd love to better understand what information they rely on. It frequently seems that the products this market wants are intentionally handicapped or not offered.

 

[Coupedncal]

it just occurred to me LandCruiser does not have to be a Toyota badge. Why could it not go on a Lexus? The GX550 will likely be based on the new Prado so why not call it a Lexus Landcruiser GX550. I know this will not sit well with the diehards and this is just my hypothesis.

 

[greynolds]

it just occurred to me LandCruiser does not have to be a Toyota badge. Why could it not go on a Lexus? The GX550 will likely be based on the new Prado so why not call it a Lexus Landcruiser GX550. I know this will not sit well with the diehards and this is just my hypothesis.

Simply because that isn't how Lexus names their models - it would completely break the pattern. But calling it the LX or GX (or whatever) doesn't matter to me if I know it's the same thing as a Land Cruiser in other markets (300 or Prado).

But some people will just flat out refuse to buy a Lexus instead of a Toyota just as some people won't buy the GMC version of a Chevy (or vice versa) - some of those Chevy people would think buying a GMC would be as "bad" as buying a Ford even though Chevy and GMC are pretty much just different trim levels of the same vehicle. I have heard people completely trash talk the other brand seemingly not realizing that they're effectively trash talking what they bought at the same time. But branding and marketing are clearly an art form...

 

[Gr8Daneger]

The Land Cruiser has always sat on top of Toyota’s line up in price and build.

I don’t know about y’all but that’s why I have one. I don’t want to pull up next to a Sequoia and them thinking they bested me in any way. If it’s sandwiched in the middle somewhere it better come bare bones and designed to be heavily modified.

 

[greynolds]

The Land Cruiser has always sat on top of Toyota’s line up in price and build.

I don’t know about y’all but that’s why I have one. I don’t want to pull up next to a Sequoia and them thinking they bested me in any way. If it’s sandwiched in the middle somewhere it better come bare bones and designed to be heavily modified.

I bought mine because it was the right mix of size, capability, etc. for ME. Not because it was the most expensive vehicle in the lineup. Who cares what the other driver thinks as long as you're happy with the choice you made? I didn't go with the Sequoia because it was quite honestly too big for my needs and just didn't offer the mix of features that was best for me. Otherwise, I would have been happy to spend less money.

 

[Coupedncal]

The Land Cruiser has always sat on top of Toyota’s line up in price and build.

I don’t know about y’all but that’s why I have one. I don’t want to pull up next to a Sequoia and them thinking they bested me in any way. If it’s sandwiched in the middle somewhere it better come bare bones and designed to be heavily modified.

That seems like a pretty elitist attitude. Besides, there will always be someone who has a better name your gadget than you. Do you go about comparing everything with others? Isn't that a terrible waste of mental cycles?

Saying it with utmost respect and humility!

 

[Jetboy]

it just occurred to me LandCruiser does not have to be a Toyota badge. Why could it not go on a Lexus? The GX550 will likely be based on the new Prado so why not call it a Lexus Landcruiser GX550. I know this will not sit well with the diehards and this is just my hypothesis.

It could be the case. FWIW the source I'm relying on said that the two are basically the same vehicle but the GX will have the V35A and the Land Cruiser version will likely be only Turbo4 and possibly hybrid version. And they depart significantly in styling from the Prado 150 and 4Runner which will continue in their respective category.

Think G wagon for styling direction.

 

[Cincodemustache]

It could be the case. FWIW the source I'm relying on said that the two are basically the same vehicle but the GX will have the V35A and the Land Cruiser version will likely be only Turbo4 and possibly hybrid version. And they depart significantly in styling from the Prado 150 and 4Runner which will continue in their respective category.

Think G wagon for styling direction.

This is solid, your source is good.