Your Thoughts on the LC 250? (3 Viewers)
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I'm all for the inverter. Having integrated generation and full use of the hybrid battery is a huge plus for pretty much anyone who spends extended time away from civilization. Look at how many people add a second battery just to get 5% of the utility of the hybrid battery. Now we can convert gasoline to electricity efficiently and use it for not only the fridge freezer and charging basic stuff, but to eliminate the propane tank, the camp stove, the lantern, maybe even the campfire.
For anyone who tows a camper - eliminates the need for a generator too.
I agree that the specs are a lot less compelling than what I thought we were getting. Pretty disappointing move by Toyota when they were so close to a really great vehicle. But the inverter is a good inclusion. I think it's actually remarkable that Toyota didn't include it on the tundra and Sequoia. That's a head scratcher.
For anyone who tows a camper - eliminates the need for a generator too.
I agree that the specs are a lot less compelling than what I thought we were getting. Pretty disappointing move by Toyota when they were so close to a really great vehicle. But the inverter is a good inclusion. I think it's actually remarkable that Toyota didn't include it on the tundra and Sequoia. That's a head scratcher.
The USA imposes the “chicken tax” on pickups and SUV’s imported from overseas, which is why Sequoia and Tundra are made here, and aren’t sold globally. So we get Sequoia instead of LC300.
I believe Range Rover buys mileage credits to meet fleet mileage requirements. So all of their vehicles are overpriced for the quality you get, to cover the cost of the credit. Toyota doesn’t do this. Instead they will sell more Corollas or whatever at a lower margin to offset the gas guzzlers they sell in the USA and still meet mileage requirements. As mentioned previously, any gas guzzling truck or SUV will be deliberately overpriced, in order to sell fewer of them at a higher margin. In order to meet arbitrary fleet mileage requirements.
Between the chicken tax and fleet MPG requirements, Toyota decided against bringing the 300 to the USA, except in the highest priced, lowest volume Lexus version. If you don’t like this, blame your government.
Europe has stringent mileage requirements, high gas taxes, and narrow city streets. As a result wide gas guzzlers aren’t popular. So no 300 there either. In part due to government policy.
Since you asked, and I love giving my opinion, Ill give my thoughts on the new LC.
First of all I was shocked when it came out. I had no idea it was coming. Toyota did a great job keeping it under wraps.
Second, I was even more shocked that I liked it as much as I did. I dont hate it.
Im not a fan of the styling, hate the round headlights, and think overall it just looks a little funky. But its not as bad as most new vehicles. And Im just not an early adopter so I dont want that funky powertrain either.
But at the end of the day, It has no removable top and doors, and is not overbuilt and heavy duty like all the previous US LCs, so it just does nothing for me.
So I am just not interested in owning one considered there are a lot of great 200s, 80s and 40s out there that I haven't owned yet. And Bronco prices are coming down and I can have a lot of fun in one of those, at least between trips to the service department!
First of all I was shocked when it came out. I had no idea it was coming. Toyota did a great job keeping it under wraps.
Second, I was even more shocked that I liked it as much as I did. I dont hate it.
Im not a fan of the styling, hate the round headlights, and think overall it just looks a little funky. But its not as bad as most new vehicles. And Im just not an early adopter so I dont want that funky powertrain either.
But at the end of the day, It has no removable top and doors, and is not overbuilt and heavy duty like all the previous US LCs, so it just does nothing for me.
So I am just not interested in owning one considered there are a lot of great 200s, 80s and 40s out there that I haven't owned yet. And Bronco prices are coming down and I can have a lot of fun in one of those, at least between trips to the service department!
Bingo. We have them to thank for 0W-20 and 16 oil, high beltlines that preclude visibility, vertical-faced flat grilled, Liquid Gold t-case fluid, TT engines, auto stop-start features, and a host of other annoyances that I'm forgetting. At least they did mandate backup cameras. While there is good intention involved, it's truly hard to understate how much of vehicle design and decision making is dictated by Federal policy and regulations.
If the 250 and 550 prove to be unreliable, the older rigs may attain a status similar to pre-2007.5 diesel pickups (i.e, pre-emissions diesels) which can sell for crazy-money.
Toyota could put bigger axles under the 250 or sell the 300. There's no meaningful difference in fuel economy. And the chicken tax makes no difference between a 300, 4Runner, or 250. It's just a choice not to offer the HD version. Much like the choice not to offer a Sequoia with a normal cargo space. Toyota just isn't very interested in this market.
Buy a KTRIO metal handheld tally counter from Amazon (I'll explain later.) Get a passport. Fly to Paris. Book a table on the terrace at Carette on the Place du Trocadero. Order their classic Club Sandwich (only the Hotel Meurice has a better one in town.) Stay away from their desserts (Impossible.) Order a cafe. People watch (on a sunny day that is not full of tourists.) Oh, then get out your KTRIO and count the Range Rovers as they drive by. I appreciate the lessons on Europe, but by all means, go see for yourself. Now if you want to see a 300 GR Sport, fly to Indonesia.
Paris spot looks great. I don’t think anecdotal evidence of Range Rovers driving by in an expensive neighborhood in an expensive city refutes the fact that big wide gas guzzling SUV’s are less popular in Europe than in other parts of the world. Regardless, my main point is that what we get from Toyota in the USA is determined in large part by the tax and regulatory policies of the Federal and California governments.
Yes they sell Japanese made 4Runners in spite of the chicken tax. But the tax is why we get Tacoma instead of Hilux, and Sequoia instead of LC300. The 4Runner gets better mileage than a LC200, and I’m sure the 6th gen 4Runner will get better mileage than a LC300. So Toyota takes a smaller hit on fleet mileage requirements selling 4Runners than it would selling cloth seat LC300’s. So many comments on MUD like “if only they offered cheaper optioned LC200/300, they would sell a ton of them!”. They don’t want to sell a bunch of stripped LC’s, they would rather sell SR5 4Runners with a smaller hit to fleet mileage standards. The regulatory state determines what we get and at what price.
Most buyers of expensive full size SUV’s really don’t care about mileage, nor should they…it isn’t material to the cost of ownership for most buyers. But manufacturers employ boosted small block engines and cut weight and durability for trivial improvements in mileage…all to meet regulatory standards, not because of customer demand.
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I'm not sure what Paris you're going to, but it's not the one I've been to in France. It's simply not true that big SUVs are comparable to the USA. Not even close. LR sells about 4700 SUVs per month in the USA, 550 in France. About twice as many per capita.
Unless you include these Land Rovers.
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Well I wanted to pick a nice place for you to sit. The Place du Trocadero is in an interesting position in Paris. It is a passage from all the West of the greater Paris area, from the autoroutes to Etoile, down the Av Kleber and through the roundabout on the Place du Trocadero as cars make their way towards The Left Bank. Its a classic route for Taxis if you are coming into town from Charles de Gaulle. So its a great place to Car watch. If you would prefer a less expensive cafe to sit at with your tally counter, I could try to think off one for you. But evidence does matter. I understand that reality is sometimes inconvenient. Come over and see for yourself how we live. You would be surprised.
This pretty much echos my exact sentiments. It will be a great SUV, but overall I’m disappointed.
Not that I’d buy one this year or anything, but looks like I’ll end up in a 200 later on down the road.
None of the above shocks me though.
I knew all along.
Everything you mentioned is traditional Prado and always has been.
However, I imagine once these get older & with the community getting more knowledge/experience with the platform, we will be able to work our way around some of the weak points, easier than previous Prados, thanks to the beauty of TNGA.
I knew all along.
Everything you mentioned is traditional Prado and always has been.
However, I imagine once these get older & with the community getting more knowledge/experience with the platform, we will be able to work our way around some of the weak points, easier than previous Prados, thanks to the beauty of TNGA.
100% concur. I currently have a GX470 and I bought it because it’s a Land Cruiser Prado, for all intents and purposes. It’s a fantastic vehicle.
But I was expecting something more for this new one.
Actually, the Chicken Tax doesn't apply to 4runner as it is a passenger vehicle. That is indeed why the Tacoma/Tundra exist and are made here, as they would be subject.
Ford just got in trouble for evading the chicken tax - they were importing their transit connect vans with rear seats, then removing them at port and sending them back to the factory to be installed again, and ducking the 25% tariff.
hoser
SILVER Star
The best Chicken Tax Evader was the Subaru Brat with the rear seats. It's not a Light Truck but rather a passenger vehicle.
SUMMIT CRUISERS Jr
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I wonder how many people would be up in arms if we weren’t getting the Toyota badged “Land Cruiser” 250 here in the states and instead we already had a Toyota badged 300 series for 100k? I think lots of people wish we could buy a hilux, but in reality if we got it, I think people would be complaining about it in exactly the same manner we see people complaining about the 250 series ie. being light duty with a small power plant because we have already been conditioned to the tundra.
At the end of the day, the Land Cruiser returning to the US is just that. A Land Cruiser badged product (that Toyota has determined is worthy of the name) being available for us to purchase in the US. I do not really see it as a bait and switch. It’s a reevaluation of the market with a new offering. Clearly selling 2k vehicles per year wasn’t that interesting and I think that would be the trend (if not worse) if we had the 300 series on sale for 100k with a TTv6.
At the end of the day, the Land Cruiser returning to the US is just that. A Land Cruiser badged product (that Toyota has determined is worthy of the name) being available for us to purchase in the US. I do not really see it as a bait and switch. It’s a reevaluation of the market with a new offering. Clearly selling 2k vehicles per year wasn’t that interesting and I think that would be the trend (if not worse) if we had the 300 series on sale for 100k with a TTv6.
Really dude…
Subaru drivers definitely don't look like that in 2024.The best Chicken Tax Evader was the Subaru Brat with the rear seats. It's not a Light Truck but rather a passenger vehicle.
Did they in 1978?
The 250's low capacities, like a 1360 lb payload, are pretty disappointing. It limits some of the core utility that Land Cruisers were known for and that the 250 was supposed to have returned to. That's not getting up in arms, but it is to say, for example, that a of week desert camping for four adults will put this truck over its limits.
GTV
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The marketing department determined the name was valuable and that was good enough for Toyota.
