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Your Thoughts on the LC 250? (2 Viewers)
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The rear is an 8.2. The axle housing is different/beefier looking than the one in the 150
Those data, from the short glimpse we got at them, seemed to show a lot of lighter duty running gear, including the 8.2” diff.
Those data also showed a paltry 1360 lb payload, some 400 lbs lower than the delta between curb and gross vehicle weights shown on Toyota’s online specs for the 250.
This doesn’t fit the badge legacy in the US market (other than the long term decline in most capacities), but it fits fine in the global market.
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In most global markets, buyers have access to the 300 and 70 series that are both more "heavy duty" than the 250. How does the 250 fit fine in these global markets? The 250 is the "light duty" option. Do you mean to say that the 250 fits fine compared to the other light duty options available globally?
If you want a 300, go to your local Lexus dealer and buy one.
I mean to say that the 250, as was the case with the 150, fits nicely within the global market's trio of Land Cruisers (light duty, wagons, and 70s). The 250 carries forward and (I would argue) dramatically improves upon the light duty lineage.
But the 250, with its lower capacities (small payload, small 8.2" diffs, etc. - see this post), is in many ways misfit to carrying forward the U.S. market Land Cruiser badge legacy, which is comprised of wagons (80s, 100s, 200s) with more robust mechanical capacities.
Within the fishbowl that is the U.S. market, I was glad to see Toyota abandon much of the 200's needless luxury bloat with 250, but I was disappointed to see it also abandon (apparently, based on data we've thus far seen) the mechanical robustness of the wagon lineage.
That said, I think the 250 will be an impressive, capable, and efficient remote tourer, but with lower capacities, like payload, than we've been accustomed to with Land Cruisers in the U.S. market (noting, however, that the 200 had slipped so far that, in its final days, 4Runner offered more cargo capacity and payload).
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If it helps at all bestcarweb has pictures of 250s destined for the International export market on the trucks...
【新型ランクル250出荷開始!?】黒がヤバい!! 海外仕様はプラドの名存続ってマジか!! ベースグレードも衝撃のカッコよさ - 自動車情報誌「ベストカー」
昨年の8月2日のワールドプレミアから約８ヶ月、いよいよランドクルーザー250の国内発売日が4/18だと各地域の販売会社へアナウンスされ始め、待ち望んでいる日本のユーザー達は多いことだろう……そんななか先行で生産されている海外仕様のランクル…
In GCC is the 300 GR Sport only available with the Twin Turbo v6? or is there a Diesel or 1Gr option as well?
yes, I have been seeing these for over a month now, so arrival should be imminent.If it helps at all bestcarweb has pictures of 250s destined for the International export market on the trucks...
【新型ランクル250出荷開始!?】黒がヤバい!! 海外仕様はプラドの名存続ってマジか!! ベースグレードも衝撃のカッコよさ - 自動車情報誌「ベストカー」
昨年の8月2日のワールドプレミアから約８ヶ月、いよいよランドクルーザー250の国内発売日が4/18だと各地域の販売会社へアナウンスされ始め、待ち望んでいる日本のユーザー達は多いことだろう……そんななか先行で生産されている海外仕様のランクル…bestcarweb.jp
In GCC is the 300 GR Sport only available with the Twin Turbo v6? or is there a Diesel or 1Gr option as well?
As for the GR sport, twin turbo v6 petrol + diesel are both available. No 1GR option on the GR-S
It seems that some people are hung up about stuff that statistically doesn’t really matter: The differentials.
Granted, bigger is stronger, but honestly, how many here have heard of any Toyota breaking differentials on a significant basis?
Personally — I’ve never read a thread anywhere where a guy said he busted his differential / except on a highly modified vehicle with enormous tires, regearing and diff locks while rock crawling.
Sure it might happen rarely with rock crawlers and diff locks, but that’s not the environment that the 250 was designed to play in.
I’m calling the “the 250 diffs are too small” conversation nonsense.
Granted, bigger is stronger, but honestly, how many here have heard of any Toyota breaking differentials on a significant basis?
Personally — I’ve never read a thread anywhere where a guy said he busted his differential / except on a highly modified vehicle with enormous tires, regearing and diff locks while rock crawling.
Sure it might happen rarely with rock crawlers and diff locks, but that’s not the environment that the 250 was designed to play in.
I’m calling the “the 250 diffs are too small” conversation nonsense.
The 8" diffs break all of the time in mild-build and even totally stock GX470s, FJ Cruisers, and V8 4Runners. It's a known problem and many have been grenaded. It's always in the back of my head when I'm wheeling, especially for my high-mileage 8" diff. It's a catastrophic failure that is going to require some off-road recovery for the rig and make things very painful if you are a long ways from home.
The 8.2" is known to be stronger but is not infallible. I think that a number have been broken in the 5th gen T4Rs and 460s when folks add 35's and larger tires. ECGS and others offer fabricated 9.5" and even Dana 60 housings for the 120/150 platform for folks that have more extreme builds.
I am going to do the 8.2" upgrade in my rig as it's more or less a bolt-in using a OEM Toyota housing (around $1K new), a 3rd member I'll need to source from somewhere and have set up by ECGS with a Harrop elocker, and my existing axleshafts and brakes. I don't plan to run bigger than 33s really ever; if I did I would upgrade to a 9.5" but just the rear diff will easily cost $5-6K for the housings an innards.
The 250 is a heavier rig than a 120 or a 150 with more torque. Maybe the 8.2" will be OK, maybe it won't be. Regardless, I wish they would have just used the 9.5" they are already using for the GX550.
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Lots of gripes at Toyota for not bringing full lineup of 300 series LC’s etc. Many here seem to believe these decisions are based on demand and what we want. That is only part of the story, maybe a small part. US Government mileage standards are the main reason other markets get stuff we don’t. It’s why we only get tricked out high priced versions of big SUV’s…they can only sell so many without having to pay Elon Musk for mileage credits. Any SUV that gets terrible mileage will cost a fortune in the USA as a result. So they jam in the luxury to rationalize the high price.
I have had to replace a 80 series rear differential housing (cracked). Not rock crawling, not highly modified; just the stress of many miles of jarring dirt roads under load (leaving 25% payload freeboard).
Some people here don’t seem to understand the importance of mechanical robustness. A hallmark of Land Cruiser wagons sold in the US, aside from dismal range and mileage, has been mechanical robustness for given capacities.
Payload seems the least imperfect overall indicator of those capacities; the 250’s is quite low. Leaving a 25% freeboard, as I prefer to do for vehicle sympathy, provides little more than a 1000 lbs to work with. Not a lot.
The small diff makes me wince because the 250 packs far more torque than, for example, an 80 series equipped with larger diffs and 10% less curb weight. Maybe it’s far better engineered and will be fine; or, maybe Toyota is cutting it closer on tolerances these days. Maybe both things are true.
To be clear, I’m a Toyota and Land Cruiser evangelist and optimist — have driven them for more than three decades and for my entire driving life. The 250 will be a fantastic truck. Some of the numbers that we’ve seen thus far, however, give me pause.
Is the 250 a three plus decade truck?
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I was very excited when they first announced the new 250. I put a deposit down.
My optimism was based on these features:
But then more info started trickling in:
My optimism was based on these features:
- Smaller size/less bloat than outgoing LC200. In fact, I never saw the appeal of the 100 and 200 series...they looked bloated. The 250 looks more reasonably sized, less of a bloated family wagon. I also hated the interiors)
- Full time 4WD with Torsen center diff (nothing new here, but I like AWD. Yes, 4R Limited is AWD, but I dont love the 4R interior or the engine/transmission)
- Standard locking rear diff
- Standard front and rear tow hooks (this shouldnt really be as exciting as it is)
- Same as world-market Prado
- Base trim with cloth seats (I dislike leather, and yay for not being a lux-o-boat)
- Efficient 4-Cyl Turbo Hybrid
- Estimated 27mpg
- 2400W Inverter
- Standard tow hitch and trailer brake controller
- Based on new TNGA-F platform could mean shared parts and compatibility with full size LC300, Tundra, Sequoia. Essentially, oversized/heavy duty build quality.
But then more info started trickling in:
- Actual MPG rating 22 city / 25 highway / 24 average. Not bad, but a bit of let down after being teased with 27mpg. And 24 average is sub-par for a 2.4L 4-cylinder Hybrid, IMO. The Non-hybrid version in the Tacoma nets only 20 city / 23 highway/ 22 average. Meaning the hybrid system is only netting (roughly) 2mpg across the board.
- Despite press release talking about “reaching more places than ever before” or something, US models equipped with small 18gallon fuel tank. Paired with only middling fuel economy, I feel like the range is disappointing.
- Recommended fuel: Premium 91 octane. Sure, it will probably run fine on regular, the Tacoma is rated to use regular…so why list premium as the recommended fuel? Even if it senses the fuel and pulls timing, it just seems silly. Its not an ultra-high-strung performance engine.
- Despite less bloat, still listed curb weight of nearly 5300lbs for base 1958 trim is pretty hefty.
- Despite shared TNGA-F platform with 300 series, Sequoia, and Tundra it seems to have more in common from a suspension/underpinnings standpoint with the Tacoma than the larger/heavier duty Tundra. And even then, it isnt identical from what I read, meaning parts not as easy to swap.
- Questionable design decisions for an offroad-focus vehicle: Low hanging exhaust, low hanging tow connectors
- Tumble forward rear seats instead of lay flat rear seats / no lay-flat cargo area. Annoying to lay anything flat in the back/for sleeping in the back, or if you have dogs in the back its a bit of bad/hazardous layout for them It also consumes space lengthwise (reducing laydown length), compared to just laying down the seat backs, or laying down seat backs with flip-up seat bottoms. Also, apperantly there are weird straps required to secure tumble forward seats to the B-pillar.
- Minimal integrated storage
- What do I really need a 2400W inverter for? My laptop charger is only like 65W, and plus the outlet isnt really reachable to people in the back seats or passenger seat.
- Bumper with hitch cover removed looks wacky with all the trim clip slots. Why even have a cover? If you have a hitch cover, the connectors should at least be behind the cover too.
Yeah that's where I'm at too. It looks ok. I hope it does well but I see no reason to sell my 200 and replace it with a 250. The only plusses over a 200 I see are the locking rear diff (easily added for $3-4K on a 200) cloth seats, MPG.
I drove an LX600 the other day and felt the same way about that platform. Not enough excuses to jump ship on the 200.
Maybe it makes more sense for someone upgrading from a Highlander or 4Runner or Tacoma.
I will say I've been a part of some internal Toyota focus group stuff (legally I can't say too much more than that) and I've tried to push diff locks and solid axles every time they gave me a chance. haha. I was once talking to some head engineer and told him how much I loved 70 Series. All he could say was "Sorry, I love them too."
Some of the other stuff they've presented in terms of potential options and accessories has been so odd, I don't even know what to say sometimes. It's like they are aware of off-roading, overlanding, 4x4ing etc as a concept but they don't actually do it themselves. That massive inverter is a good example - do they think we're running movie nights out on the trail or something?
I've done a decent amount of marketing in my life and I feel like this Land Cruiser launch looks a lot like any other product launch. The product development team gets their directions and does their best with half the budget and timeline they need, the c-suite is on some other wave length, the compliance and regulation people are like WTF, sales just wants it done yesterday, and then it all gets dumped on marketing.
At that point, marketing, especially if it's an external agency just looking to get paid, goes alright, how are we gonna spin this? Is it really legendary? Ehhh, we can say it is and that makes it true. Is it really a long range world traveler? ehhh, it has the right aesthetic, let's run with it. Is it really the return of the Land Cruiser? No of course not, the Land Cruiser is still for sale elsewhere, this is a Prado. But we can tell people it is and they'll buy it, just watch.
IDK about advertising and marketing sometimes, it's pretty sleazy and I don't love it. It's a lot easier to market a product you can stand behind, I can tell you that much.
End of the day? I think the 250 looks alright. The design is cool. I bet it drives alright. I might buy one some day, or I might not. Feel luke warm about it
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
As close as I'll be getting to the 2024 Toyota Land Cruiser...
This one is still available for those living in reality:
This one is still available for those living in reality:
With regard to the inverter, devices that heat quickly — like a water kettle, a not-unreasonable camping convenience — can use upwards of 2000 watts.
But it’s fun to think about bringing the dishwasher too.
Japanese commentators thoughts on the 250 are worth reading. In a recent bestcarweb article, the editors say:
“Toyota, at the Japanese launch, promised the 250 would not be just another Prado 150. But it is being delivered with the Prado tags on the back worldwide. And since it is being produced at the same Prado 150 factory (Tahara), it is understandable that people consider it essentially as just a new iteration of the Prado 15o.”
【新型ランクル250出荷開始!?】黒がヤバい!! 海外仕様はプラドの名存続ってマジか!! ベースグレードも衝撃のカッコよさ - 自動車情報誌「ベストカー」 - https://bestcarweb.jp/news/scoop/826261
So the Japanese are having the same discussion and coming to the same conclusions. They see the 250 as an improvement over the Prado to the degree that it is the next Prado. And so the lower capacities, like payload as compared to a Landcruiser are understandable.
The Toyota lineup of 300, 70 and 250 will be a broad and complimentary offering globally. Except that the “globally” part excludes the EU and US.
If you want a 300 GR Sport you’ll have to move to places like Indonesia to get one. I do not have to move to Indonesia to buy any other top tier automobile from any other manufacturer on the globe. I can buy as many Range Rovers and Defenders in Paris as I can’t fit in my garage. How can Land Rover do it but Toyota can’t. Toyota can’t sell me a 300 or a 70, their premier products!
Allo Porsche? “Sorry we can’t sell you a 911 in Paris, try our dealer in Timbuktu.”
“Toyota, at the Japanese launch, promised the 250 would not be just another Prado 150. But it is being delivered with the Prado tags on the back worldwide. And since it is being produced at the same Prado 150 factory (Tahara), it is understandable that people consider it essentially as just a new iteration of the Prado 15o.”
【新型ランクル250出荷開始!?】黒がヤバい!! 海外仕様はプラドの名存続ってマジか!! ベースグレードも衝撃のカッコよさ - 自動車情報誌「ベストカー」 - https://bestcarweb.jp/news/scoop/826261
So the Japanese are having the same discussion and coming to the same conclusions. They see the 250 as an improvement over the Prado to the degree that it is the next Prado. And so the lower capacities, like payload as compared to a Landcruiser are understandable.
The Toyota lineup of 300, 70 and 250 will be a broad and complimentary offering globally. Except that the “globally” part excludes the EU and US.
If you want a 300 GR Sport you’ll have to move to places like Indonesia to get one. I do not have to move to Indonesia to buy any other top tier automobile from any other manufacturer on the globe. I can buy as many Range Rovers and Defenders in Paris as I can’t fit in my garage. How can Land Rover do it but Toyota can’t. Toyota can’t sell me a 300 or a 70, their premier products!
Allo Porsche? “Sorry we can’t sell you a 911 in Paris, try our dealer in Timbuktu.”
