Yet another heat issue thread... (1 Viewer)

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Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Threads
7
Messages
85
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
Hello all,
I have read countless threads that I have searched here, regarding heating issues in these 60's. My '84 has it's original 2F and rear heat. It'll blow warm air, but won't be enough once the weather really gets cold. At first I thought that my temperature gauge was broken. Climbing a fairly long, very steep grade coming up from Sedona, into Flagstaff I saw that the temp gauge needle came up a bit. But, it mostly stays aligned with the bottom line on the gauge. I've flushed both heater cores (entire cooling system, actually), replaced the thermostat and BOTH gaskets (all from NAPA), replaced all coolant, and "burped" the system! I also verified that the heater valve on the firewall above the heater core was properly opening and closing! I parked on a hill to get the nose high, tapped on the radiator, rocked the truck, repeatedly squeezed the upper radiator hose and even jacked the front end way up with my hi-lift jack, while the truck was chocked in my driveway. Tried all of the tricks that I have read here on the forum. After running for 20 minutes or so, I was able to stick my fingers into the coolant in the radiator. Its warm, but honestly not much more than 100°, comparing to my hot tub water. I know that it was considerably cooler than my 134° tap water at my house (have since turned down my water heater!). Its just not getting up to temperature, and I cannot wrap my head around why. I sure wish that my '68 GMC with a big block, or my '59 Chevy Apache with a 383 had the same problem! But, I want this rig to run properly and I just don't know what's up.

I would be inclined to say that my upper thermostat gasket was installed correctly, but perhaps some user error is afoot. But, it behaved the same with the old thermostat, too.

There are so many heater hoses running all around the engine compartment, and back to the rear heater, I feel as though improper heater hose routing is at fault here! Between the oil cooler/heat exchanger, both heater cores and all associated hoses, it's hard to even track where the flow of coolant should be going!

Both heater cores are fed, then their returns "T" into another line. It just seems so complicated, that I feel like just enough water is always circulating, that the engine never gets up to full operating temperature.

With so many heat related threads always coming up here, is there something basic that I am missing, or that jumps out at you Land Cruiser pros?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Nik
 
have you ever flushed the heater core (cleaned it out)? You need to post pics if you think your routing is wrong, because that's about the only way someone is going to be able to help you. its good to know what actual temp the truck is running, rather than what the hot-cold OEM gauge says...
 
Running it with the cap off at idle, the system isn't pressuring... what you describe for temperature - sticking your finger in the top reservoir of the rad - sounds normal.

If you’ve got access to an IR temperature gun, take it out for a good drive - down the hill on 89a and back up - stop at the top and measure the temperature of the thermostat housing. I’ll bet it’s close to the opening temp of your thermostat.

The factory temp gauges are notoriously incorrect, and only take being hooked up incorrectly once, to fry.
 
both the front and rear heaters are not causing your issues. there is no way possible those 2 heater cores are stopping the engine from getting up to temp. no matter which way the heater hoses are routed.
 
Any chance you installed your thermostat upside down?
 
both the front and rear heaters are not causing your issues. there is no way possible those 2 heater cores are stopping the engine from getting up to temp. no matter which way the heater hoses are routed.
I just meant the the menagerie of heater hoses may be bypassing the thermostat and flowing through the radiator, which could prevent the engine from ever getting up to temp.
 
Running it with the cap off at idle, the system isn't pressuring... what you describe for temperature - sticking your finger in the top reservoir of the rad - sounds normal.

If you’ve got access to an IR temperature gun, take it out for a good drive - down the hill on 89a and back up - stop at the top and measure the temperature of the thermostat housing. I’ll bet it’s close to the opening temp of your thermostat.

The factory temp gauges are notoriously incorrect, and only take being hooked up incorrectly once, to fry.

Just bought an IR thermometer, for just that purpose. I am also going to add an aftermarket temperature gauge, so I can see the exact temp that the engine is running at, real time. I Will report back the actual running temps that I see.
 
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like this?
 
keep the radiator cap on, start and run the truck. Keep one hand on the radiator hose that goes from the top of the t-stat housing to the top of the radiator. It should get warm only, until your t-stat opens...which should be instant and the hose will quickly become too hot to hold. If that's not happening and it just stays warm and keeps getting gradually warmer, I'd say your top gasket is out of position or your t-stat is stuck open. I don't think heater hoses out of position could possibly keep your truck running cold.
 
keep the radiator cap on, start and run the truck. Keep one hand on the radiator hose that goes from the top of the t-stat housing to the top of the radiator. It should get warm only, until your t-stat opens...which should be instant and the hose will quickly become too hot to hold. If that's not happening and it just stays warm and keeps getting gradually warmer, I'd say your top gasket is out of position or your t-stat is stuck open. I don't think heater hoses out of position could possibly keep your truck running cold.
Correct. Thermostat is not showing signs of opening, like the temperature change, or pressurization. The interesting thing is that I paid close attention to how everything looked when I pulled it off. The old thermostat also was installed correctly, AND the gasket was in it's appropriate location! I remember the top gasket being stuck to the inside of the t-stat housing. I had to peel it off of the housing and the old gasket was right where it was supposed to be. I won't get back to my 'Cruiser until tomorrow, when I will check it out! I will also be installing a temperature gauge AND check operating temp with my IR thermometer. Food for thought, I have never NOT been able to hold my hand on the thermostat housing! And the somewhat warm air blowing from the heaters (both front and rear feel approximately the same temperature) tells me that the coolant is of approximately the same temperature throughout the system.

Just for some context, I build my own engines in my hot rods and have quite a bit of wrenching experience. The display on my factory gauge, the temperature of the air blowing through the heater cores and the not-too-hot-to-touch thermostat housing and limp upper radiator hose ALL suggest that the engine is running well below the temperature that it should!

Unless there is something plugging the system from properly circulating, and the coolant inside the block is just COOKING, and my factory temp gauge is broken, which is possible, but seems somewhat unlikely. Just a lot of signs pointing towards not getting up to operating temp. While I didn't test it by seeing when it opened in a pot of water on the stove, the old thermostat came out in visually good condition, and there was no change with the new thermostat. I can check it by checking the actual opening temperature in a pot of hot water, I assume that the opening temp of the thermostat is not the culprit, unless it's very common for the thermostat for this application to not open at their intended temperature. I'll check it tomorrow, to be thorough.

What's the best place to place an aftermarket temperature gauge sending unit? I have a gauge that I can use, that I trust. I typically try to go into a water jacket in the cylinder head on my old BBC/SBC engines. Is there a preferred place to put the temp sender?

I REALLY appreciate any and all help! I'd like to get this thing functioning correctly. The heaters will blow pretty warm air. I'll stick a meat thermometer in a vent and in the rear heater opening tomorrow and get the heater air temperature, too.
 
BTW, new thermostat was of the 180° (maybe 185°) variety. NAPA said that a 195° was recommended, but only had the 180°. They always reccomend 195° thermostat, any time I have EVER bought one, but I've never heard a compelling argument, as to why 15° hotter water is a good thing! An engine builder that I respect once said "I like my water cool and my oil hot!" So, I've always stuck with the 180° thermostats. Never had a heater issue with one, either.
 
Neither the old or new thermostat is/was stuck open. the old t-stat gasket was in place, and I carefully placed the housing over my thermostat and gasket that were placed like those pictured above.

Though, I do recall thinking while looking inside the thermostat housing that an awful lot of coolant would be able to flow around the thermostat! I cannot picture exactly what made me think that, but I remember it looking odd to me when looking into the housing, from the bottom. Seemed like even with the gasket in place, it would easily flow around the thermostat, at least to the smaller 5/8" ish heater hose. I'll take it apart tomorrow and take some pictures. It didn't seem modified, or aftermarket, so I assumed it to be correct.
 
The below quote is what I did recently when my truck was running cold.


Maybe I'm just crazy but I put my t-stat on very differently than most. I unbolted the lower housing from the head. While the thermostat was still inside the housing I could look in and see the top gasket was dislodged. That top gasket can easily slip out of position during install. After cleaning up the mating surfaces, I put the thermostat housing assembly together on a bench. I turned the top of the housing upside down and put the top gasket in first, then put the thermostat in upside down making sure the gasket is centered and the thermostat is sitting flush on it. Next I coated with rtv the lower gasket on both sides and put it on the lower housing. I turned the lower housing upside down and carefully put it on the mated surface of the top housing. Then holding it all tightly flipped it over and installed and tightened the 4 bolts. Next holding my thumb over the oil cooler hose attachment I blew in the top hole to make sure that I had a seal and no air was getting by. Lastly I replaced the lower (housing to head) gasket and with some rtv, bolted back on the head. This can get a little tricky with other stuff in the way but is doable. Probably not the normal way but made sense to me to be able to check the top gasket.
 
Get an OEM thermostat so you know your at the right engine temps. Check the old one for cracks. See if the spring is holding it tightly closed.

Ohm test the temp sensor at certain temps it should be within a certain ohm range. But these rarely fail.

Another concern is to make sure your radiator cap is holding pressure.
 
What's going on in the overflow jug? Is it 1/2 full? Does the radiator overflow into it after driving? Does it draw back out? Usually this can be a sign of a bad radiator cap if it's not using the overflow jug right.
 

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