Wrecked my FJ62, seatbelt/insurance question

[Elbert]

if you want the truck back....get your own belts from whatever sources....if you don't want the truck back...hire a lawyer and or fight it.

 

[Spike Strip]

Check the link Reevesci gave you. It's very easy, like a 1-2 banana job, installing quality aftermarket belts for driver and passenger.

My belt broke exactly as your picture and I hated it 'cuz it kept stabbing my in the love-handle.

Worst-case, sign a waiver on the belt and get the truck back and do the belts yourself.

Glad all are OK in OK.

 

[Walking Eagle]

I seriously considered the full cage and fove points option after buy back. Even talked to shop about doing it. Unfortunately the insurance company was pissed about having to total the truck and said I couldn't buy it back. I said bull, I have the right to keep it. A quick call to OK Inurance commision, and it turns out in OK don't have that right. They did however come back with a buy back offer. They said in addition to the 1450 coparts estimate, I had to pay $600 for the seatbelts - which makes no sense, and they couldn't explain why other than 'We're pissed and teying to cut our losses." Plus, they wouldn't pay sales tax on the payout. Ended up it was going to be $2500 to keep it, and with $650 worth of frame damage, it just got too expensive to keep. It was too expensive for my brother to want to part out or for Jason at cruiseryard. My body man tried buying it from the insurance company since they owe him more than a grand for storage and frame time (checking if straight). They refused to sell to him.

One thing I learned that I'd never really thought much about was how seatbelts work. They have a non-elastic stretch to them that reduces the rate of deceleration of your body. Softens the studden stop. This makes them a single use item. If you're in a second accident the stretch is gone and you are going to stop hard. The other guy's insurance was jerking around on totaling it so I had my insurance company look at it, and at first adjuster brought up a place that does nelts for classic cars, but when she gave me the total offer, she said Shelter would not put custom seat belts in. Don't blame them for not wanting the liability.

So I've actually done as a couple people suggested (and as I'd already decided to do) I've bought a newer vehicle for daily use. Fortunately it has an 8,000 lb tow rating so I can get a trail only truck.

Oh, and never sell yourself short on a total loss. I had to argue, but I got a good price.

 

[SteveH]

Sounds like you need a new insurance company after this - one that you interview carefully about vehicle disposition after an accident.

 

[tclark]

Why not get the 60 you wanted to start with and install the 3 point belts in the rear? From what I've seen it's a pretty simple swap as long as it has the threaded mount already in place.

 

[Walking Eagle]

Sounds like you need a new insurance company after this - one that you interview carefully about vehicle disposition after an accident.

Not my insurance company - the other guys insurance company. My insurance company had a lower offer on the ACV (actual cash value) of the truck. And their buyback was higher - I hit them up on how they came up with the number (pushing 3 grand) and they said they go by what copart says they'll get based on other auctions. I think it's a bull**** number. I'm going to warch coparts and see what it actually goes for.

Money wise I came out ok. If I really wanted the truck back and was willing to put belts not meant fot the truck in the truck, I could have bought back the truck, paid to have all the work done, and still had money in my pocket. I just didn't want it that bad. It sorta depends on how you look at it too. I mean, had I done that, with the exception of the seatbelts, I could return to being in the same vehicle I was before. And therefore not 'out" any money. The other way to look at it is it would cost me more to repair than I think I would realistically be able to sell it for. Once I actually have the check from them in my hand I'll tell you the numbers and it'll make more sense.

A couple of things that might help see my point of view on it. One -I had no real sentimental attachment to this truck yet. I just got it last Nov. And just started driving it in february. Hadn't even had a chance to take it off-road yet. Two- I was never going to feel safe in that truck again. Not without factory belts. Maybe not even with them. I think I said before in a more modern disk brake ABS vehicle I may have been able to avoid the accident all together. I'm not dissing anyone who chooses to drive a 26 year old truck daily with their kids, but after two not at fault accidents in 14 months, it's just not something I want to do. Three- I can't work on the truck myself right now because of a torn cartridge in my wrist.

 

[Walking Eagle]

Why not get the 60 you wanted to start with and install the 3 point belts in the rear? From what I've seen it's a pretty simple swap as long as it has the threaded mount already in place.

Because I don't think I'd feel safe in it is the short answer. The truck handled the accident ok, but with zero crumple zones it transfered alot of energy into the passengers. Going to therapy for my shoulder because of the intensity of the hit.

Now, getting a 60, caging it, putting 5 points in and towing it to go wheeling that's a different story. The Cruiser replacement I got is a 08 Yukon XL 4wd, about as far from a 60 series as you can get with a SUV, unless I went to a crossover like the outback. My brother lobbied for a GX470, my dad lobbied for a 100 series or Outback. My insurance rental has been a 2015 Suburban and I've enjoyed sailing this boat for the past month or so. Of course once you commit to towing a trail rig it opens up FJ40's, FJ55's, 1st gen 4 runners and even buggies as possible options. So who knows where I'll be in the spring. Maybe I'll settle back into an 80 series.

 

[2fpower]

Come back to the dark side....

 

[tclark]

Because I don't think I'd feel safe in it is the short answer. The truck handled the accident ok, but with zero crumple zones it transfered alot of energy into the passengers. Going to therapy for my shoulder because of the intensity of the hit.

Now, getting a 60, caging it, putting 5 points in and towing it to go wheeling that's a different story. The Cruiser replacement I got is a 08 Yukon XL 4wd, about as far from a 60 series as you can get with a SUV, unless I went to a crossover like the outback. My brother lobbied for a GX470, my dad lobbied for a 100 series or Outback. My insurance rental has been a 2015 Suburban and I've enjoyed sailing this boat for the past month or so. Of course once you commit to towing a trail rig it opens up FJ40's, FJ55's, 1st gen 4 runners and even buggies as possible options. So who knows where I'll be in the spring. Maybe I'll settle back into an 80 series.

I gotcha. I don't dd my 60 and safety with the kids is a part of the reason why.
I don't quite get your hangup on the factory seat belts though; I get they're supposed to be one time use but otherwise it's quite a simple system and not really "tuned" to each particular vehicle.

 

[Walking Eagle]

I gotcha. I don't dd my 60 and safety with the kids is a part of the reason why.
I don't quite get your hangup on the factory seat belts though; I get they're supposed to be one time use but otherwise it's quite a simple system and not really "tuned" to each particular vehicle.

I would say they are tuned to the vehicle in as much as they are crash tested that way. Big issue with the 62 rear belts is that they use a different mounting system, two bolts rather than 1. I think you could probably take the assembly apart by drilling out rivits and make it work. The liability is in the making it work part. That's the part the insurance company wants nothing to do with. Toyota has test data backing up their mounting method. Joe Blow autobody does the bracket for the insurance company, what data do they have saying they conformed to test requirements. Being an Engineer and after enough training from the companies product safety group - you get used to thinking of everything in terms of 'How will this look in court with a burned, paralyzed or dead child?' I know it sounds mellow dramatic, but professionally I always liked having UL or CSA standards telling us how hot something could be, because as long as we met them we were 'safe'. Of course what you do as an individual is different, but I totally see why insurance companies and bodybshops would just say no. Heck look at all the roll cages that are sold as 'show bars' because of th implied liability.

I've also said all along that I've over sensitive because of two major crashes in 14 months. Or perhaps because of two crashes and too many close calls where my thinking ahead about what stupid thing the guy in front, beside, or behind me might do was all prevented another accident I am appropriately sensitive. I've stopped riding motorcycles on the street all together. The rear ending I would have been taken away in a box after my parts were scouped up. This last one, I might have just crawled away crippled.

I don't go around telling others not to ride or not to drive a 30 year old vehicle with modified seatbelt parts. That's never what this thread was supposed to be about. I never actually got an answer to the origonal question - at least not in advance of insurance actually totaling truck. Typical Internet I guess. Opinions given on everything but the question asked, all kinds of advice on what I should do, but no facts on what insurance required to do. Not that I don't appreciate everyone's well intentioned comments, they just didn't help me with my insurance question.

Interesting side note, because I knew of the limited availability of driver's seat belts, I went ahead and ordered one when insurance company was saying no way they would total it. So I now have one of six or seven nos seatbelts in the country, and no truck to put it in.

Insurance company got real pissy with me about surendering the truck right away because they aparently forgot that it was at the body shop racking up storage fees. I explained to them in an e-mail they should be thanking me for not authorizing the body shop to start work or they'd have a $6,800 bill they'd have to pay the shop on a vehicle they would still have to sell salvage. And of course I only took it there in the first place because they insisted I do so. Idiots would have been money ahead had they just totaled it in the first place. I gave them fair warning on the belt issue. Instead they were bullheaded and they paid a thousand dollar storage bill plus I'm still in a full size SUV rental going on 37 days. I think even at the insurance disount rate it's around $50 a day. Doh!

 

[Walking Eagle]

Just re-read thread - to recap the facts -

1. All seat belts in use at time of severe impacr should be replaced. Check owners manual, that's what it says.

2. At least these two insurance companies would not do custom belts - Shelter and United Home Insurance.

3. If belts are not available - your vehicle will get totaled. 2 out of 2 adjusters for 2 different companies did not know this until going to supervisors - and one took 3 weeks to reach this comclusion.

4. Guys on autotrader with rediculous prices are your friend if your truck gets totaled as they help u get a fair price.

 

[MACFJ60]

I was involved in a front end collision 8 months ago when a civic decided to make a left hand turn directly in front of me. Although the other driver's fault, I went through my own insurance. They ended up paying more for the repair than I paid for my 60 two years ago. Totaling the car or replacing the seatbelt was never discussed.

 

[willflow]

Glad you guys are ok. Take care of the wrist, I tore my tendon off the bone last sep and after surgery if February it still hurts like hell.

 

[Bear Lake Cruiser]

I was involved in a front end collision 8 months ago when a civic decided to make a left hand turn directly in front of me. Although the other driver's fault, I went through my own insurance. They ended up paying more for the repair than I paid for my 60 two years ago. Totaling the car or replacing the seatbelt was never discussed.

Insurance company?

 

[MACFJ60]

USAA

 

[Landpimp]

driver side seat belt for a fj62 in gray is still available from the dealer, I had one in my hands 2 weeks ago, ordered one today to see if it will work in the fj60(don;t think it will) The female buckle is not

 

[PabloCruise]

Oh, and stayallert - the thought has crossed my mind of if I was in a Subaru with four wheel disks and abs would I have been able to stop in time and avoid the accident all together or how much less impact would it have been. Interesting tid bit - stock FJ62 brakes are powerful enough to lock up 33's at 50mph.

Other thoughts that have crossed my mind - even with a mild lift, had I hit her in the door she would have been in rough shape because of the height difference. Had I been in my LX450 with 5" lift and 37's the first thing to contact likely would have been my tire which would have spun me at best, possibly rolled me over, or at worst launched me. I think it's natural to wonder how it could have been different in different vehicles.

Interesting... the dynamics of a crash are fascinating. Where I used to live there was lots of wildlife collisions. If you swerved to miss a deer, you would likely end up in a ditch, or roll, or worse. Best bet was to keep things straight and see if you you and the deer could avoid each other.

I came upon a wreck shortly after it occurred where a little Civic (slant nose) went under the side of a Dodge Ram and rolled it. That got me thinking.

I also notice people treat me very differently when I am driving my Civic vs. my 40. They don't think twice about making douche bag moves when I am in the Civic.

 

[PabloCruise]

I have a relative who works for one of the Japanese auto companies. According to him, all safety equipment has an engineered life expectancy of 20 - 25 years. This includes air bags and seat belts. Per his companies rules, they dispose of ALL safety related spare parts in their stock when they reach the end of the engineered parts life...period!

He also said, they will not make replacement parts, in fact, most times, that can not make replacement parts due to liability of manufacturing a safety part which has been superseded by known better designs.

As for used parts, I work for insurance companies, and they are risk adverse to say the least. I would be very surprised if an insurance company would have anything to do with installing a 20+ year old used safety part such as a seat belt or airbag, parts with unknown storage and previous accident history in a vehicle. Talk about risk and liability!!!!!

As vehicles age, the safety systems are going to reach a point where they are no longer safe and new replacement parts will not and are not available. There is talk about this now in the insurance industry as a result of the Takata air bag problems.

If a vehicle has a known safety defect...or a aged out safety part, and a new replacement part is not available, will an insurance company insure that vehicle due to possible risk to the driver and passengers if an accident occurs? More risk and liability could/would mean they decline to cover or higher premiums.

Technology is a double edged sword. No one anticipated that all these "old" vehicles would still be on the road 25 - 40 years after these safety systems were introduced, and the chickens are coming home to roost.

Don't look to the vehicle manufacturers to help - why should they, they sell new cars, why take on the costs and liability?

Don't look for any help from the insurance companies, new cars are safer and they pay fewer and lower bodily injury claims in new cars vs old ones. Plus smart Spy programs like Progressives and Allstates new device - Now Your Insurance Company Wants To Spy On You In Your Car

Government... Ya right. They want all the old s*** off the roads. More sales tax and higher registration fee's, less smog and smart cars.

Sorry for the detour and I hope you sort this out and jet your 62 back on the road safely, but this is the future IMHO.

AS mentioned earlier - this is likely your only option to replace the seat belts - Buy Replacement Seatbelts, Seat Belts, Retractable Seat Belts, and Seatbelt Extenders @ SeatBeltsPlus.co

Very interesting! I always thought the manufacturer had to warranty the belts for the life of the vehicle. I actually think I saw that in the warranty docs for my Civic. I think I will go check and see if I can find this...

And much more interesting in the wake of the Takata air bag recall. The wife's car had the passenger side air bag recalled first, and then the driver air bag. No estimated date when replacement parts would be available. Seriously?!?

 

[PabloCruise]

Ok, so last Saturday trucking down the road and a lady blows stop sign and causes a collision. Luckily everyone in Cruiser was belted in and just a little sore. Odd thing that happened though was my son's seat belt broke.

After stressing all week on how they would value the vehicle, they say they are going to pay to have it fixed not total it. Surprising cause they started the week saying it would be a total loss. I think they thought it would be worth $1500 like any other 1989 car.

So I tell the adjuster, I only see one problem with the apraisel - it shows ordering a new belt from the dealer and I know it is not available from the dealer. She says "the shop will have to search for one 'comparable' if the exact part is not available. They have resources they use to locate parts all over the country,..." - I'm thinking, well I have IH8MUD and Cruiser Dan so take your resources and..... but I digress. Finally she says she's not a mechanic and so she just let's shop and appraiser work out details. My final e-mail to her states I realize she is not a mechanic, and furthermore I wouldn't expect most mechanics to be aware of the unavailability of a part that was only offered on vehicles in the US for 1.5 years. I just wanted to give her fair warning before work begins on the truck that there is a potential issue of a part not being available and having no 'comparible' part avaialable.

Obviously I can go junkyard parts. But given that this is my second not at fault accident in 14 months I've determined Okies can't drive and it is not a matter of if I will be in another accident but when. This time my 7 and 9 year olds were in the car. And I was really happy I paid the exoberant premium 62's get over 60's to have the factory installed 3-point belts.

So finally to the question - If no factory seat belts are available and there are no comparible parts (I know there is nothing bolt in) then what? Are they forced to total it?

Just to figure this all out - did you push to have your 62 totaled? In my mind you could have made a tidy little pile of cash letting them fix it and then parting it out...

 

[PabloCruise]

Why not get the 60 you wanted to start with and install the 3 point belts in the rear? From what I've seen it's a pretty simple swap as long as it has the threaded mount already in place.

Are there any pictures of this? I want to put 3-point belts in the back of my Pig and am always looking for good ideas on the safest way to do so...