Would AHC delete de-value (how much) my LX570? (1 Viewer)

[Heckraiser]

I should have known this thread would digress into an AHC/KDSS battle. FWIW, my AHC still functions fine and my truck rides like it should. I just passed a line of idiots last weekend trying to tame the washboards by driving 10 mph (about the worst thing you can do on a washboard road, but I digress).

Also @Madtiger , FWIW, most of the points you make in that post you linked are no longer really valid if you read into the long travel AHC thread. You can lift without losing travel (and even gain some travel relative to stock) with a few mods. And lift really has nothing to do with tire size if you're clearancing properly for the tires. My 35's work in every scenario in "normal" height completely stock except the standard clearance mods.

I don't care which is "better" and I already know all the benefits of both systems. I just personally don't really care for AHC. Just a preference. The point of the thread was more to see if I would be shooting myself in the foot if I ever sell the truck.

 

[paulunm]

Calling it Porsche-like seems like a stretch to me, but it’s pretty damn good for an off-road capable body on frame SUV. Not sure what else in class compares, other than an LC200 which is kinda splitting hairs. AHC can do all of the side to side and front to back adjustments that KDSS can, but KDSS can’t give you a 2” lift off road while still dropping 1” at highway speed. I’ll be honest, it’s the best of both the lifted and lowered worlds. If changing the fluid every 80k-ish for $70 and changing the globes every 160k-ish for $600 is the cost, then I bet AHC is money ahead compared to buying either OEM or aftermarket medium/heavy load springs/shocks and/or airbags and rides better under pretty much every applicable situation to boot. It’s really not a complex or expensive system, much less a mess. There are plenty of DIY walkthroughs that break it down barney style how to maintain your AHC system.



You’re probably not missing out on a “pillow soft ride,” but I’d bet some fresh globes would feel smoother over nasty manhole covers and be more composed over unusual highway transitions. I could definitely feel some issues at 150k but I also wheel the bajeezus out of my LX for what it is.



Agreed, I think they degrade slowly. I bet they eventually hit a point where they go from pretty weak to absolutely sucking, but dancing over washboard is a solid sign they’re due for replacement soon if you do any sort of wheeling or even fireroad driving. Better to do it soon than to be trying to flush out debris. Curious what uses an accumulator as a clutch assist - I know BMW clutch delay valves but haven’t heard of a hydraulic clutch assist.

Funny you mention "Porsche-like"- assisted clutch I have is a 996tt. Accumulator setup is kind of a pain, when the accumulator goes bad you really should replace the slave cylinder as well (due to debris?)- making it an expensive job.

The non assisted 996 and 997 GT cars have extremely heavy clutches- some people convert to those, but I find them horrible.

 

[TeCKis300]

“The 200-series is not a "connected to the road" type car. It's best as a compliant beast.”

Not so long ago, @TeCKis300 said that LX has Porsche-like handling…like it’s on rails he would repeatedly type! Interesting what he says now. Reality struck him?

“AHC is KDSS on steroids”

No, it is not. And as can be seen in the new generation of Toyota/Lexus off-road capable vehicles, AHC is being phased out. It is more for on-road thing (which it is not good at) and to let children and grandma in/out. Aka an “American thing.” Not for off-road. KDSS is what everyone wants…and is truly best of both worlds. KDSS is the current and future for Toyota top SUVs.

“These systems have been know to easily go 150k to 250k+.”

Not true. Not based on most LX owners here whose system needs parts replacement every 100-150k. You will find some outliers here or there, but just search. Plenty of issues with AHC way before 150k miles. And AHC is a complex expensive mess when it comes to diagnosing issues.

Must have made an impression on you to hold onto that thought. Since I have both in my garage...

I still maintain my comments. As you took them out of context. The point is that for a slinky 6000lb+ body on frame SUV, when setup right and not skipping leg day with upsized tire widths, the 200-series has more front end traction and bite than it ought to. Bordering on fun, and it can hold good pace on a a secondary mountain road. I've driven many SUVs where their H/T tires squeal like banshees and give up at much lower speeds.

The cross linking KDSS and AHC are both big contributors to this capability.

 

[Madtiger]

“I still maintain my comments. As you took them out of context. The point is that for a slinky 6000lb+ body on frame SUV, when setup right and not skipping leg day with upsized tire widths, the 200-series has more front end traction and bite than it ought to. Bordering on fun, and it can hold good pace on a a secondary mountain road. I've driven many SUVs where their H/T tires squeal like banshees and give up at much lower speeds.

The cross linking KDSS and AHC are both big contributors to this capability.“


@TeCKis300 I may not have the “deep experience” of racing as you claimed to have, but i can assure you that my LC is no sports car. It is a wallowing pig. Period.

And if anyone here don’t believe me then just read ANY car magazine review of LX570 or LC200 driven by experienced driver. There is no front end bite nor fun to be had in a LC200 platform around any mountains. Heck, a gentle curve at local mall road is adventurous enough!

Even the LC300 platform is getting the same type of handling reviews. So, no, 5500+ lbs high center of gravity with solid axle and soft suspension will be crap around corners no matter whether KDSS nor AHC.

And MotorTrend Figure 8 tests pretty much confirm the crappy handling of our SUVs compared to other more road-oriented SUVs.

But yeah pass what you’re smoking over here please….

 

[AZLX570]

You’re probably not missing out on a “pillow soft ride,” but I’d bet some fresh globes would feel smoother over nasty manhole covers and be more composed over unusual highway transitions. I could definitely feel some issues at 150k but I also wheel the bajeezus out of my LX for what it is.

I appreciate the insight - I think my ride is great for now but I will take a closer look at replacing globes if I notice a substantial change in composure/harshness.

It's funny when I hear one camp of people say the LX rides like a cloud or a "Cadillac." However, the thing is just a body on frame tank with a solid rear axle. Sometimes I just need to take what I read on here with a grain of salt.

Also funny how this thread did turn into AHC vs. KDSS...

 

[TeCKis300]

Funny you mention "Porsche-like"- assisted clutch I have is a 996tt. Accumulator setup is kind of a pain, when the accumulator goes bad you really should replace the slave cylinder as well (due to debris?)- making it an expensive job.

The non assisted 996 and 997 GT cars have extremely heavy clutches- some people convert to those, but I find them horrible.

On my 3rd slave/accumulator. With a seal re-build kit en route as I'm leaking fluid from the PS pump to the clutch slave reservoir. Making that 4 in 68k miles? Doesn't help that I'm on a heavy Sachs Race Engineering 764 pressure plate which I think is slipping and not holding 650 ft lbs anymore...

People mod Porches and de-value them all the time. Yet there are enthusiasts that want those mods too.

@Heckraiser , you know what you want. Make it yours.

 

[TomEf]

I will refer you to my old post #34:

New Shocks on 2013 LX?

Even tho it is hydraulic, doesn’t AHC need air to do its thing? Isn’t there a air filter somewhere in the system? I could swear that i read someone here that fluid can get contaminated over time due to dirt getting into the system? air is bad. there is a particulate filter at the fill...

forum.ih8mud.com

Yeah none of your claims seem to track in real life whether it’s fitting 35s, complete system failure, ridiculous service costs, or anything else. Did a dealer take you for a ride on an AHC service? Everything okay at home?

 

[Madtiger]

Yeah none of your claims seem to track in real life whether it’s fitting 35s, complete system failure, ridiculous service costs, or anything else. Did a dealer take you for a ride on an AHC service? Everything okay at home?

Actually, everything i wrote is true from what members on here have experienced.

Everything good at home. Thanks for asking. You bro?

 

[B Hans]

Deleted mine and no regrets either. It's an interesting thought experiment on who would be the buyer of a ~15 year old Lexus with almost 200,000 miles but I really doubt it would be anyone who would be upset with aftermarket suspension. Like any modification I'm sure I wouldn't get any money back from what I spent on the swap but I also don't think it would sell at a huge discount to a stock version of similar vintage either. My guess it would probably sell to a similar buyer at a similar price of a similar Land Cruiser with equivalent modifications... probably someone on this forum (is there anyone else buying these?).

 

[Sandroad]

And now back to the regularly scheduled programming.........

There is an extremely small subset of enthusiasts out of an already small subset of people who buy an LX570 to use it off/on road, out of the small demographic that buys luxury SUVs in the first place who would be interested in an LX570 without AHC. I'll bet the total population fitting that description is just a few people at most. IMHO it will be very very difficult to sell at any price, even if you are super patience. So, don't make the finances a decision point.

 

[bloc]

And now back to the regularly scheduled programming.........

There is an extremely small subset of enthusiasts out of an already small subset of people who buy an LX570 to use it off/on road, out of the small demographic that buys luxury SUVs in the first place who would be interested in an LX570 without AHC. I'll bet the total population fitting that description is just a few people at most. IMHO it will be very very difficult to sell at any price, even if you are super patience. So, don't make the finances a decision point.

I'd argue that a whole lot of the general public wouldn't even notice it's gone.. much like them being unaware their brights are on.

 

[barcelona4x4]

There's going to be a point where depreciation has bottomed and we're almost there.. My guess would be in the 18-25k range for both LX and LC. Obviously low miles, no rust, no accidents, color, etc plays a major factor but we're not talking about a pavement Heritage edition here. If I was in the market for a low 20k ish 200 series, I would absolutely consider an LX that's been swapped for new or recently serviced aftermarket suspensions. Most people are buying secondhand, 3rd, and so on for the reliability of the platform and new coil overs could actually be a selling point.

 

[DenverLX]

I disagree with anyone that thinks that the AHC delete is a bad thing for after market pricing. Just look at 100 series. Any high milage 100 series that was still running AHC was a red flag. I spent 2k replacing the suspension in my LX470. The same will happen for the 200. High milage and old LX570's will be very appealing for off road use and a non-AHC suspension could be an added value.

I personally like my AHC, but if I get to 130k+ miles and I have suspension problems, I will replace it with a high end conventional suspension.

 

[Wafflroo]

Came across this and immediately reminded me of this thread.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

Not sure if the owner is on here?

 

[bloc]

I disagree with anyone that thinks that the AHC delete is a bad thing for after market pricing. Just look at 100 series. Any high milage 100 series that was still running AHC was a red flag. I spent 2k replacing the suspension in my LX470. The same will happen for the 200. High milage and old LX570's will be very appealing for off road use and a non-AHC suspension could be an added value.

I personally like my AHC, but if I get to 130k+ miles and I have suspension problems, I will replace it with a high end conventional suspension.

The reliability difference between 100 and 200-series AHC systems is well known though. Outside of globes and taking care not to let the pump clog, and leaks for heavily corroded rigs that aren't an issue at all on clean ones.. they really don't have common problems, unlike all the horror stories about first gen AHC on the 100.

We'll see plenty of 200k mile LX570s on original suspension before long.

 

[Madtiger]

“We'll see plenty of 200k mile LX570s on original suspension before long.“


But we don’t. Aside from maybe one or few here that claims such, most do not make it to 150k much less 200k without rusting, globes go bad, or just crappy ride.

And just to prove its complexity and high-risk maintenance aspect, a member here recently lamented that no Lexus nor Toyota dealer around him would even touch AHC for maintenance. Just wait till it fails and they will bill you $30k to replace the whole system.

 

[NKP Garage]

“We'll see plenty of 200k mile LX570s on original suspension before long.“


But we don’t. Aside from maybe one or few here that claims such, most do not make it to 150k much less 200k without rusting, globes go bad, or just crappy ride.

And just to prove its complexity and high-risk maintenance aspect, a member here recently lamented that no Lexus nor Toyota dealer around him would even touch AHC for maintenance. Just wait till it fails and they will bill you $30k to replace the whole system.

There's no rust on them here in Texas

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Personally I would not even consider buying an LX without AHC. That's not just "devaluing," that's a complete non-starter.

I spent 2k replacing the suspension in my LX470.

People replace perfectly fine, OEM suspension on Tacomas (and many other trucks) with ICON / KING / BP51 kits that run $4-6k (before installation) on a daily basis. Hell, I was dumb enough to do that once, too. $2k for all new AHC? I'll take that deal all day long.

 

[TeCKis300]

To be fair, buying any used rig LX or LC, the going in assumption should be to expect to R&R the suspension. With the LX AHC having much more durability than anything aftermarket, would have a better chance of needing only mild service. If replacing AHC, would be no cost difference to any LC.

I'm with @eatSleepWoof , there's no way I'd do without AHC. It's IMO the best part of the LX.

The reliability difference between 100 and 200-series AHC systems is well known though. Outside of globes and taking care not to let the pump clog, and leaks for heavily corroded rigs that aren't an issue at all on clean ones.. they really don't have common problems, unlike all the horror stories about first gen AHC on the 100.

We'll see plenty of 200k mile LX570s on original suspension before long.

Having been a contributor to the 100-series AHC community, this is not true. My brother has my old LX470. Going strong at 190k miles on original AHC. The community has had to take a similar journey, in that they didn't appreciate or understand the system and hacked it in ways that broke it. That lead to a fallacy that it is unreliable. There's enough of a knowledgebase and understanding now and there's definitely still individuals that seek out it's unique capabilities. To your point, the 100-series system did not have the margin for weight capacity that the 200-series does, about 1350lbs to 1800lbs respectively. So sensor lift and bumpers and such quickly exceeded it's stock capability unless properly augmenting.

 

[bloc]

The community has had to take a similar journey, in that they didn't appreciate or understand the system and hacked it in ways that broke it. That lead to a fallacy that it is unreliable. There's enough of a knowledgebase and understanding now and there's definitely still individuals that seek out it's unique capabilities. To your point, the 100-series system did not have the margin for weight capacity that the 200-series does, about 1350lbs to 1800lbs respectively. So sensor lift and bumpers and such quickly exceeded it's stock capability unless properly augmenting.

Good points.