Which welder is for me? (2 Viewers)

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Need to replace an ancient Lincoln IdealArc 250 tombstone stick welder at school, looking for advice. This is for a general Welding elective class that we offer once a year that is heavily subscribed and is always full. I have gear for 8 separate stations, including the following:

2 Miller Synchrowave 250 units setup for TIG (Argon bottles, water cooled torches)
2 Miller MaxStar 200's, currently only being used for stick (SMAW) but could be upgraded for TIG
2 Lincoln IdealArc DC-250's with wire feeders & bottles for MIG

I want to get another MIG, but would rather get something that is not industrial sized. I have a Miller Autoset 211 at home and love it, so I was thinking of going that way. I buy all my welding supplies from the local AirGas shop (contract pricing). They said the Miller 211 is an excellent choice, but he also mentioned the Thermal Dynamics (Tweco) 211i unit, mostly because of the ability to also do TIG.

I guess if I needed another TIG setup I would just get the gear for the MaxStars.

I have 480V, 240V, & 120V plugs in the booths, so the dual voltage capability of either unit is not really a big selling point here.

I really like the compactness of the newer Miller 211, but it still accepts the 8" spools. Whatever I get will be mounted on the wall (not on a cart) so I can secure it.

Price isn't really an issue, I have "end of year" money to buy something.

Suggestions? Am I missing anything?
 
This is the old unit:
IMAG0836.jpg


I found all the docs, it's been here since 1975.
 
Well it's not like I have a place to put it.
 
Ok, Nick

Might be swapping out this summer. FYI I think these are 480V, I'll confirm.

We also have a really nice PowerMatic table saw I'm trying to sell, but it is 480V, 3 phase, 5 HP motor.
 
480V? That might be an issue. I know I have 220V but no 480. I'd have to see if it has multiple voltage taps and can be reconfigured to run 220V. Can you get a detailed pic of the data plate on the front?

I know we could use the saw at work but we would rather not for the same reasons you're replacing it. We have one Sawstop saw and a couple older machines.

Thanks,
Nick
 
If you only have single phase 220v , that won't work re-wiring the motor , it should run 208 or 440 or something like that . A rotary phase convertor is a great option , they are stable and prices have come down a lot . It also helps to have the option of running true 3-phase machinery since they are plentiful used and generally a lot cheaper than single phase .
Sarge
 
Sarge,

I was referring to adjusting the input voltage on the Idealarc welder. That welder can run on 230 and 460 single phase according to the data tag KLF PM'd me. On the motors yer singin' to the choir - I have a small machine shop with several 3 phase machines running on a rotary phase convertor my brother and I built. And my day job is running a machine shop that is part of plastics fab shop with 3 table saws and a bunch of other stuff... ;)

Nick
 
For a welding class, I wouldn't get either the Miller 211 or Tweco 211 because the duty cycle is too low for exercises like padding plates. You want something more industrial so you get a 100% duty cycle at 150A. Check out the Miller 250 or Tweco 252.
 
Didn't know the Idealarc could run multiple inputs to that extent , which is great and I'll keep that in mind .

Was totally not aware the 211's had that lower duty cycle , that's a serious disappointment for sure . I agree with @Pin_Head , need a 100% duty cycle to keep with abuse from padding and just general kids screwing around...
Sarge
 
So I'm curious about the OP question and suggestions. Partly because of what I have and have been able to do so far with it.

I will start off saying if I end up going 220V, that isn't a problem. I have more than enough 6ga THHN cable to run a very good dedicated 220 line and room in the breaker (I think I even have a spare 220V breaker). I haven't had a need for 220, yet, though. The last house had a dedicated 110v 30a breaker with 10ga single strand copper wire I ran for it, current house hasn't had a need.

It seems that most of what the OP was mentioning, isn't hugely thick metal needed.

I have a Lincoln 140. When I went to do a cylinder exchange preparing for my roll cage kit they confirmed that the Lincoln 140 will weld up to 3/8" thick with gas (and could push a tad further with solid flux line, but didn't recommend it). Piping is .120" DOM and I think flanges are 1/4" (maybe 3/8", but the flanges don't get welded to one another). I'm not sure there's a need for a 220V (like a Lincoln 180) for even the roll cage kit.

With my 110V/140A I've been able to build the 40 rear bumper, body panels, custom tow/receiver hitch for an RV, receiver hitch for the corolla, shackles (3/8") for an old Explorer I had, bracketry for a multitude of things, and more. A friend has the 140C and has been able to do far more (including ridiculous suspension customization).

So the OP mentioned things like sliders, and reinforcements - unless many of you are using 1/2" or larger plate metal, why would there be a need for 220? I am relatively green to welding, so it really is a question of intrigue.
 
toyotaspeed90 said:
I have a Lincoln 140. When I went to do a cylinder exchange preparing for my roll cage kit they confirmed that the Lincoln 140 will weld up to 3/8" thick with gas (and could push a tad further with solid flux line, but didn't recommend it).
Click to expand...

Everything I see on specs on this welder say it will only do 3/16" single pass, or 5/16" on multi-pass or flux-core.

For a welding class, I wouldn't get either the Miller 211 or Tweco 211 because the duty cycle is too low for exercises like padding plates. You want something more industrial so you get a 100% duty cycle at 150A. Check out the Miller 250 or Tweco 252.
Click to expand...

We have several "Industrial" class welders already. They are very capable, robust, but obscenely expensive, way beyond what a home-based occasional user would want to invest in. My intent is to give the students an opportunity to use a unit that is down in the price range where they could possibly see themselves having at home. If it hits the duty cycle, they either wait, or move over to one of the "big" MIGs. Honestly, I've done a few projects with my Miller 211 and it's never hit the limit. I took that welder in to the class to demo a few years ago, and 2 students went right out and bought one for themselves after trying it out. There's a huge jump up in price to go to the Millermatic 252, not realistic for a "home" user.
 
KLF said:
My intent is to give the students an opportunity to use a unit that is down in the price range where they could possibly see themselves having at home. If it hits the duty cycle, they either wait, or move over to one of the "big" MIGs. Honestly, I've done a few projects with my Miller 211 and it's never hit the limit. I took that welder in to the class to demo a few years ago, and 2 students went right out and bought one for themselves after trying it out. There's a huge jump up in price to go to the Millermatic 252, not realistic for a "home" user.
Click to expand...

Maybe the Thermal Arc / Tweco 252i. It is multiprocess MIG / TIG / Stick but 230V only. Around $1,600 or about 60% of a Millermatic. It still has a 100% duty cycle at 150 A. The Millermatic 211 is not a multiprocess welder, but still great bang for your buck. The Tweco 211i is only around $900. I always had negative vibes about multiprocess welders doing nothing well, but I have had a mind changing experience.
 
toyotaspeed90 said:
So I'm curious about the OP question and suggestions. Partly because of what I have and have been able to do so far with it.

I will start off saying if I end up going 220V, that isn't a problem. I have more than enough 6ga THHN cable to run a very good dedicated 220 line and room in the breaker (I think I even have a spare 220V breaker). I haven't had a need for 220, yet, though. The last house had a dedicated 110v 30a breaker with 10ga single strand copper wire I ran for it, current house hasn't had a need.

It seems that most of what the OP was mentioning, isn't hugely thick metal needed.

I have a Lincoln 140. When I went to do a cylinder exchange preparing for my roll cage kit they confirmed that the Lincoln 140 will weld up to 3/8" thick with gas (and could push a tad further with solid flux line, but didn't recommend it). Piping is .120" DOM and I think flanges are 1/4" (maybe 3/8", but the flanges don't get welded to one another). I'm not sure there's a need for a 220V (like a Lincoln 180) for even the roll cage kit.

With my 110V/140A I've been able to build the 40 rear bumper, body panels, custom tow/receiver hitch for an RV, receiver hitch for the corolla, shackles (3/8") for an old Explorer I had, bracketry for a multitude of things, and more. A friend has the 140C and has been able to do far more (including ridiculous suspension customization).

So the OP mentioned things like sliders, and reinforcements - unless many of you are using 1/2" or larger plate metal, why would there be a need for 220? I am relatively green to welding, so it really is a question of intrigue.
Click to expand...

no expert welder here but I'd be surprised if a 120V 140A machine can do 3/8" steel reliably in one pass. General impression I had was that 3/16" is possible in one pass but 1/4" already requires multipass.
 
Well, s--t, that explains a lot. I actually looked at the diagram, and sure enough..... It has done quite a bit, though.

It claims 10ga is fine with standard wire and gas, which is thicker than .120 wall tubing - so should be fine single pass on the roll bar. Guess it's time to install 220 and watch CL for something better.
 
It's always fun to get the bigger more expensive machine but it's also unlikely the average home DIYer would need to do 1/4" very often, I would think. That's pretty thick. And on some of those other rarish occasions, some beveling and multipass might do the trick if time is not critical. So, I for one, am pretty content with a good 140A machine (for now at least). YMMV of course.
 
Thick steel is what they make dual shield wire and 7018 stick welding electrodes for, but you need a machine that can run them. Not much call for that on a Landcruiser.
 
The base single pass specs are what most novices miss - they look at the big capability but those are deceiving because almost all are for multipass process welding and you need to know how to do it right . That very issue is why I hate reading about people buying 110v migs and welding up bumpers , recovery points and especially tire carries - nothing worse than 200lbs+ bouncing down the road with an inflated tire . Those types of builds should be properly engineered and welded by a pro - no exceptions and I'm surprised there isn't some laws that cover this .

The 252's and it's different knockoffs are great . The new Miller Multiprocess is proving to be a great machine but hits around $1650 pricing point and duty cycle isn't up to par with price - 20% @150a 220v ...ugh . I hate how the companies are focusing too much on price point and taking shortcuts to compete - duty cycle is the first to suffer .
Just my opinion...

Sarge
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

K
Looking at Multipurpose welders and Welding Helmets, anyone with recent experience with Professional versus Big Box store models??
2
Replies
26
Views
3K
Waorani
Waorani
KWLC250
Torque Wrench Suggestion for Swapping Wheels
Replies
7
Views
1K
Rednexus
Rednexus
alia176
Belt grinder attachment for a bench grinder
Replies
16
Views
3K
alia176
alia176
e9999
Green wheels for Carbide tools: do they work?
Replies
16
Views
2K
e9999
e9999

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)

Share this page

Back
Top Bottom