ranma21
Supporting Vendor
Good to know, wonder if Rotary or Challenger 10k lift worth the extra $2k.
Which model 2 post lift to buy to work on a land cruiser ? (1 Viewer)
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Good to know, wonder if Rotary or Challenger 10k lift worth the extra $2k.
WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
Excellent question. For whatever reason I have settled on the Rotary SPOA10. Haven't bought it yet though so still plenty of time to get talked into something else.
ranma21
Supporting Vendor
Yea SPOA10N800 is the one I am looking at too.
As a shop owner, YES! As a home owner version????? I have Rotary and Challenger at work but went with Bendpak at home for the extra width between post. It is a nice lift, but not the same as the ones I have at work.
c2dfj45
Supporting Vendor
We use Rotary asymmetrical lifts in the shop....9k and 10k(I think)....they've done really well for 15 years...zero issues. Maybe a line on one of them. Bought them brand new from Rotary. Very solid, very heavy duty. When we pull motors from Porsches we have to be a little careful with weight. The 79 builds are a little sketchy when they are on the rack with no bed and just a motor....we ratchet strap them down to the arms.
ranma21
Supporting Vendor
So would you say a symmetric lift such as Rotary SPO10 or Forward DP-10A is better than asymmetrical lift when it comes to lifting LC ( all series ), starting my LC workshop, so shopping for lift. Both brands own by VSG and Forward is made in USA as well.
DP10A
DP10A Two-Post Lift Features: Incorporating a low-profile design, the DP10A 10,000 lbs. capacity two-post lift features low-profile/oversized pads with multiple extensions to raise most vehicles on the road today. Includes four (each) adapter extensions: 3.5" and 5". Integrating Spot-Rite™...
www.forwardlift.com
c2dfj45
Supporting Vendor
So would you say a symmetric lift such as Rotary SPO10 or Forward DP-10A is better than asymmetrical lift when it comes to lifting LC ( all series ), starting my LC workshop, so shopping for lift. Both brands own by VSG and Forward is made in USA as well.
DP10A
DP10A Two-Post Lift Features: Incorporating a low-profile design, the DP10A 10,000 lbs. capacity two-post lift features low-profile/oversized pads with multiple extensions to raise most vehicles on the road today. Includes four (each) adapter extensions: 3.5" and 5". Integrating Spot-Rite™...
I've only used asymmetrical lifts so I don't know if I can answer your question. I can't even remember why we used the asymmetrical ones to begin with. I know a huge part of what we needed was very low profile arms to get under the cars that we predominantly work on. If I had more of a dedicated truck lift I would change out the pads for sure.....we have these flip up pads...I'd rather have a more traditional rubber topped screw type one. But again, not feasible for us for cars. I'll run it by my tech on Monday and see what he thinks about the symmetrical one. He's most likely used both.
alia176
SILVER Star
Is the main advantage to an asymmetrical arm lift is to be able to open the doors easier?
WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
yes
I have a rotary SPO10 lift in my shop and mostly work on toyotas . Occasionally I need to lift my 3500 dodge dually and it works just fine. They are expensive but I have never had any issues with any part of it. I put imbeds in the floor that were a bit deeper where I mounted the hoist . IIRC I made the holes 8" deep roughly 3'x3' where the posts mount. The rest of the slab is fairly thick as well, probably overkill but I have no cracks.
I think it goes without saying that when installing a two post lift that rebar reinforced concrete for a two post lift is essential .. Many homes which should have reinforced concrete in the garage don't .. Some homes don't have thick enough pads to support the point load weights especially for a two post lift .. Some people have used metal detectors which should light up over the cement pad if it is properly reinforced ..
Are there workarounds to spread the load on a concrete floor that is not reinforced with concrete .. Yes, 3/8" 4'x4' steel plates can be placed on the concrete so the lift pillars can be placed on the centers of plates .. This will require concrete floor with a minimum thickness of at least 6" of thickness without rebar to support around 3 tons .. Much of this depends a lot upon how much weight will be lifted ..
Types of Concrete .. It is important to choose a high load concrete when redoing floors .. Concrete is rated in psi and a common concrete is 700 psi .. Concrete can go up to 3,000 psi .. Most shops with multiple lifts use this high density high load concrete for reasons of safety .. You will find however that when used with rebar 700 psi concrete can work just fine .. I would check with a licensed contractor who builds gas stations as they know shop floors and lifts better than most .. They will recommend pad thickness, amount of rebar and type of concrete .. Again, this depends on how much weight your lifting .. Not many of us will be lifting 10 tones ..
I had a 3 1/2" slab in my garage that cracked over the load of my Tundra Crew Cab pickup .. My garage floor was not reinforced .. Point loads from a lift post on a standard garage floor won't cut it .. If I were putting in a new floor with that was designed for a shop lift would be to have 2" of tamped gravel as a base, 1/2" rebar on 12" centers in the middle of a 6" slab of 700 psi concrete that would support 3 tons with a high margin for load tolerance .. In the areas of high loads where the lift post would be I would add additional 1/2" diagonal rebar in those areas .. You might ask why have a high margin of tolerance ? It is important to plan for the future .. Settling of a house / slab happens .. In this way the slab will outlive the lift ..
If you had a common 3 1/2" concrete pad in your garage and wanted to getaway with putting a lift in without replacing the pad then I would go with a 4 post to spread the load and I would also use the 4'x4' 3/8" steel floor load spreaders .. It is important to note that you just don't put the steel plates on the floor .. You must use a high strength epoxy under the plates to secure them to the floor .. I think this is risky and I wouldn't say that this is a long term solution .. It may last a lifetime I don't know .. That would largely depend upon what the slab is placed on .. If its really rocky soil that won't budge then I would feel better but if it was Oregon with lots of rain an loose soil absolutely not ..
Are there workarounds to spread the load on a concrete floor that is not reinforced with concrete .. Yes, 3/8" 4'x4' steel plates can be placed on the concrete so the lift pillars can be placed on the centers of plates .. This will require concrete floor with a minimum thickness of at least 6" of thickness without rebar to support around 3 tons .. Much of this depends a lot upon how much weight will be lifted ..
Types of Concrete .. It is important to choose a high load concrete when redoing floors .. Concrete is rated in psi and a common concrete is 700 psi .. Concrete can go up to 3,000 psi .. Most shops with multiple lifts use this high density high load concrete for reasons of safety .. You will find however that when used with rebar 700 psi concrete can work just fine .. I would check with a licensed contractor who builds gas stations as they know shop floors and lifts better than most .. They will recommend pad thickness, amount of rebar and type of concrete .. Again, this depends on how much weight your lifting .. Not many of us will be lifting 10 tones ..
I had a 3 1/2" slab in my garage that cracked over the load of my Tundra Crew Cab pickup .. My garage floor was not reinforced .. Point loads from a lift post on a standard garage floor won't cut it .. If I were putting in a new floor with that was designed for a shop lift would be to have 2" of tamped gravel as a base, 1/2" rebar on 12" centers in the middle of a 6" slab of 700 psi concrete that would support 3 tons with a high margin for load tolerance .. In the areas of high loads where the lift post would be I would add additional 1/2" diagonal rebar in those areas .. You might ask why have a high margin of tolerance ? It is important to plan for the future .. Settling of a house / slab happens .. In this way the slab will outlive the lift ..
If you had a common 3 1/2" concrete pad in your garage and wanted to getaway with putting a lift in without replacing the pad then I would go with a 4 post to spread the load and I would also use the 4'x4' 3/8" steel floor load spreaders .. It is important to note that you just don't put the steel plates on the floor .. You must use a high strength epoxy under the plates to secure them to the floor .. I think this is risky and I wouldn't say that this is a long term solution .. It may last a lifetime I don't know .. That would largely depend upon what the slab is placed on .. If its really rocky soil that won't budge then I would feel better but if it was Oregon with lots of rain an loose soil absolutely not ..
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alia176
SILVER Star
I've been following a concrete slab thread on Garagejournal.com and there is a talk of not using rebars but using wire mesh along with fiber infused concrete instead. The company who pulled my lift from the local Chevy dealership said the same thing, don't use rebars and use wire mesh/fiber mix concrete. Main reason for not using rebars is so that you don't run into them while drilling anchor holes.
I picked up a Challenger 12k lift last week and will be pouring a pad outside so I'll do whatever is best. Unfortunately, every concrete expert has their own views regarding this project. Some say to pour a separate slab under the columns, some say to make a deeper hole under the column, some say to pour a consistently the same thickness of slab in order to prevent stress risers, some say to use a rolled wire mesh, some say to use wire mesh panels vs rolls, and on and on.
One thing that seems to be a common theme among most folks is to pour at least one or two inches more than what the lift manufacturer suggest, which is 3500psi, 4" slab. So, I'll prolly pour either a 5" or 6" slab.
I asked one of the local cement company if the weather is an issue, and he said that winter pouring is actually better because the concrete cures slower than summer. I have no idea the validity of this statement.
A tip for folks looking for used lifts - call up the company that does annual inspection on them for dealerships. Usually there'll be a sticker on the column with their name, info and the date of inspection. They're the ones who pull them for newer lifts and sell them to the public. This is what I did and scored a 12k lift for $500. I passed on the 9k lift for $300 after talking to the mechanics who use both of them.
I picked up a Challenger 12k lift last week and will be pouring a pad outside so I'll do whatever is best. Unfortunately, every concrete expert has their own views regarding this project. Some say to pour a separate slab under the columns, some say to make a deeper hole under the column, some say to pour a consistently the same thickness of slab in order to prevent stress risers, some say to use a rolled wire mesh, some say to use wire mesh panels vs rolls, and on and on.
One thing that seems to be a common theme among most folks is to pour at least one or two inches more than what the lift manufacturer suggest, which is 3500psi, 4" slab. So, I'll prolly pour either a 5" or 6" slab.
I asked one of the local cement company if the weather is an issue, and he said that winter pouring is actually better because the concrete cures slower than summer. I have no idea the validity of this statement.
A tip for folks looking for used lifts - call up the company that does annual inspection on them for dealerships. Usually there'll be a sticker on the column with their name, info and the date of inspection. They're the ones who pull them for newer lifts and sell them to the public. This is what I did and scored a 12k lift for $500. I passed on the 9k lift for $300 after talking to the mechanics who use both of them.
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WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
A couple of comments:
None of the lift manufacturer's documents that I have read recommend/require rebar. Rebar is fine to help prevent crack propagation in thicker slabs (6"+) subjected to very high traffic loads but otherwise not necessary. Agree that a 3.5" slab isn't workable for a two post lift but I haven't seen any manufacturer recommend more than 4.5" (but I have only looked at the 2 or 3 lifts I have been interested in).
Not sure why you reference 700 psi concrete? CMU (concrete block) might be made out of 700 psi concrete but the most common concrete rating for residential slabs is 3000 psi. Maybe you are confusing tensile strength with the more common rating of compressive strength?
alia176
SILVER Star
Here's a snip from a Challenger 9k lift manual so at least 4" min depth is required.
I know a number of builders who still use 700 psi concrete because its $2 for a 55 lb bag .. Cement has gotten a lot cheaper and stronger over the last 20 years .. I should have looked online to see what was currently out there .. One can purchase 5000 psi concrete for about $6 a 55 lb bag .. I remember 20 years ago I purchased 2500 psi concrete for $30 per bag .. So I agree rebar would not be needed when using high strength concrete .. Thank you for pointing this out ..
WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
Apologies for belaboring this point but you have now peaked my curiosity. Can you post a photo or link to 700 psi concrete (assume you mean premix in a bag that you add water to)? I have never heard of such and I'm an old guy that's been around a lot of projects. Again, just curious. Thanks!
FWIW, cement has gotten cheaper but it hasn't gotten any stronger. The strength of concrete is derived from the ratio of cement, sand, aggregate, water and additives. Just to clarify.
Not true .. Cement processing has improved over the years and the micronized compounding and the quality of the silica has improved .. I don't have bags of cement from 20 years ago to take picture of ..
WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
You said you know contractors that still use 700 psi concrete. I was just curious. I won't bother with a protracted discussion on cement processing. Regardless of the "strength" of the cement, it's still all about the ratios.
alia176
SILVER Star
My lift will be outdoors but the motor isn't rated for outdoor use so I'll need to use a bucket to protect it from rain/snow.
This was from my dated experience 20 years ago .. Things change ..
