Ok...it appears the PS front tire is airborne. And it doesn't look like there is very effective front suspension articulation from this pic...certainly not as much as I am used to seeing on 80's. What gives?
What's better offroad, 80 series, or 100 series?
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Ok...it appears the PS front tire is airborne. And it doesn't look like there is very effective front suspension articulation from this pic...certainly not as much as I am used to seeing on 80's. What gives?
I haven't been around here too long, but I was at TTORA for about 5 years. I had a 2004 Tacoma DC, and I wheeled the piss out of it. I loved it. I got rid of it a few months ago because it was to the point where it wouldn't do what I wanted to do on the trails. The IFS was awesome with most of the trails, but I wanted more. It isn't the point of the IFS not being able to make most of the trails, it was the fact that if I wanted to try the harder line, I couldn't. Either the clearance wasn't there, or if I went the way I wanted to, the front would come up, or the front would go too far down.
I got an 80 for a few reasons. More room, built like a tank, and SFA with lockers. That's it. No more bypasses for me
The Tacoma rear flexed fine, but I realized that the stock LC flexes just as much as my modded Taco...
The front flex on the Taco at its furthest....
The Toyota boys on the Rubicon with us in 06. Would an 80 stand like this? Nope, it would have the tire on the ground.
This was the beginning of Rubicon just passed the gatekeeper. He almost flopped this one. This might happen in any truck, but who knows...
I got an 80 for a few reasons. More room, built like a tank, and SFA with lockers. That's it. No more bypasses for me
The Tacoma rear flexed fine, but I realized that the stock LC flexes just as much as my modded Taco...
The front flex on the Taco at its furthest....
The Toyota boys on the Rubicon with us in 06. Would an 80 stand like this? Nope, it would have the tire on the ground.
This was the beginning of Rubicon just passed the gatekeeper. He almost flopped this one. This might happen in any truck, but who knows...
- Thread starter
- #123
Ok Guys, thanks for putting this back on track. Wow, this is a big thread in a short amount of time. I now realize one thing, and I think I knew it before I originally posted. The 80 is the king for what "I" need it for, not to say I wouldn't enjoy the luxury of the 100, just that the SFA issue for me is personally what I like for the kind of offroading that I do.
Also, on a side note I forgot about the IFS system of the 100, and also the ATRAC issue. It's funny, but I used to work for toyota, and last winter, we had a monster snowstorm, 20" on the ground in 12 hours. Anyway, as I got to work the next day, I had to clear out a path for the vehicles to drive through, I chose a 98 4runner with a locking rear diff, and brand new BFG 33" AT's. It worked quite well, but did slip quite a bit more than I was expecting before hooking up, even with the rear locker.
Anyway, I got out and tried it in a 07 FJ Cruiser. (It was brand new, hadn't been sold yet, and yes it had the sh**ty stock tires that they come with). I decided to just use the atrac system. I'm not sure how it's supposed to work in snow, but WOW, it just KILLED the 4runner, I could barely get the tires to spin (it was such an enormous difference, I called all the guys out from my work to look at how much better it worked than the 4runner, yes I'm a wierd fanatic at times, hehe)
After that, I had my 95 triple locked cruiser with decent all terrains on it. It did much better in deep deep snow than the 4runner I remembered, but still, in some strange way, I think the atrac in the FJC was superior, definately not offroad, but on pavement in the snow.
I wasn't hoping to take this thread off topic, however, was just commenting on some of the posts on pg. 3-4 regarding atrac.
Cheers!
Also, on a side note I forgot about the IFS system of the 100, and also the ATRAC issue. It's funny, but I used to work for toyota, and last winter, we had a monster snowstorm, 20" on the ground in 12 hours. Anyway, as I got to work the next day, I had to clear out a path for the vehicles to drive through, I chose a 98 4runner with a locking rear diff, and brand new BFG 33" AT's. It worked quite well, but did slip quite a bit more than I was expecting before hooking up, even with the rear locker.
Anyway, I got out and tried it in a 07 FJ Cruiser. (It was brand new, hadn't been sold yet, and yes it had the sh**ty stock tires that they come with). I decided to just use the atrac system. I'm not sure how it's supposed to work in snow, but WOW, it just KILLED the 4runner, I could barely get the tires to spin (it was such an enormous difference, I called all the guys out from my work to look at how much better it worked than the 4runner, yes I'm a wierd fanatic at times, hehe)
After that, I had my 95 triple locked cruiser with decent all terrains on it. It did much better in deep deep snow than the 4runner I remembered, but still, in some strange way, I think the atrac in the FJC was superior, definately not offroad, but on pavement in the snow.
I wasn't hoping to take this thread off topic, however, was just commenting on some of the posts on pg. 3-4 regarding atrac.
Cheers!
arbetrader, That is a good application of ATRAC. I've never had luck using lockers in snow. It just seems to make you slide more sideways and dig yourself in deeper. Unless of course you add chains to the equation.
Seeing as this is an opinion thread (yes, opinions can be supported with facts, pics, etc) I will chime in.
I own an 80 and a 100. For OFFROAD use, out of the box (stock)....the 3x locked 80 is top of the pile from the Toyota mothership. Next? FJ Cruiser. Next? 100.
I am choosing from the late model and excluding the early and non-US models.
If you want to talk modified...that is a different story and VERY subjective since mods are so varied.
So what is my basis for this?
- I have owned 2 80s. One (91 year) was mildly modified, unlocked, and did well. The other is the Avocado, and I think there is enough out there in terms of what it has done/can do.
- I have a 100 (stock). I know multiple people with stock to mildly modified 100s. I have wheeled with them, repaired them, etc. The 100 stock can't even get onto an RTI ramp without hitting the front bumper.
- My sister has an FJ Cruiser (k9crazy). She was the first FJ in ATL. We modified it together, met a crew of folks with FJCs, modified them too. I taught a lot of offroad driving to these owners, and we all hang out now. I have spotted and driven FJCs in some crazy places. I have also been out with the FJC TT enough times in the past year to know them all quite well (I think I made 8-10 events). I have also been on trail with several FJCs during failures (rear diffs, front axles, etc) to know where the limits lie.
My opinion is as I said above. I hope pride or ego isn't getting in the way of some of the posts I have read here so far.
I own an 80 and a 100. For OFFROAD use, out of the box (stock)....the 3x locked 80 is top of the pile from the Toyota mothership. Next? FJ Cruiser. Next? 100.
I am choosing from the late model and excluding the early and non-US models.
If you want to talk modified...that is a different story and VERY subjective since mods are so varied.
So what is my basis for this?
- I have owned 2 80s. One (91 year) was mildly modified, unlocked, and did well. The other is the Avocado, and I think there is enough out there in terms of what it has done/can do.
- I have a 100 (stock). I know multiple people with stock to mildly modified 100s. I have wheeled with them, repaired them, etc. The 100 stock can't even get onto an RTI ramp without hitting the front bumper.
- My sister has an FJ Cruiser (k9crazy). She was the first FJ in ATL. We modified it together, met a crew of folks with FJCs, modified them too. I taught a lot of offroad driving to these owners, and we all hang out now. I have spotted and driven FJCs in some crazy places. I have also been out with the FJC TT enough times in the past year to know them all quite well (I think I made 8-10 events). I have also been on trail with several FJCs during failures (rear diffs, front axles, etc) to know where the limits lie.
My opinion is as I said above. I hope pride or ego isn't getting in the way of some of the posts I have read here so far.
sleeoffroad
Supporting Vendor
The suspension on that truck is pretty stiff in the front and the bushings that we used in the control arms makes it not flex as good as I want. That was the first run with the truck. We still need to tweak it a little with different bushings.
The advantage to having the suspension like that is good road manners, even with 7" of lift and no swaybars it drives really well on the road.
Thats a very difficult trail that most bypass. If you look carefully you will see the rear axle and how it sits. This trail is full of holes that your wheel drops into. This was the only pic I took and I took it because the wheel was up in the air. I few feet later and the front wheel was back on the ground.
This was an awesome machine.
The comfort of a 100, a V8 and a SFA with Front and Rear lockers.
sleeoffroad
Supporting Vendor
The limit on the 100 is the tire size. I would say that if you wheel trails where 35's does not cut it anymore, you ware going to want a SAS truck so you can modify it more.
I have to agree with Eric, I think the 80 with 35's will spank the 100 with 35's anytime where the size of the 80 make a difference. His summary of Moab is correct. I am sure you can get a 100 with 35's through Pritchett and Rusty Nail, but it won't be pretty or easy. Not as easy as the 80. will go through, but then again if the owner of the 80 is worried about scraping bumpers and body, it might be just as tough.
On the Shortbus we removed the fear of trashing the body in an effort to see how far we can push the basic 80 drivetrain with some minor mods. It goes a long way but it is not unstoppable or bulletproof. I can safely say that I now know where the limits are of the 80 series drivetrain, both in stock form and with modified components.
Now if we did the same to a 100 (remove body damage worry), somehow fit 39" tires on it, I am not sure it will go as far as the Shortbus did. The IFS will stop it in it's tracks sooner than later. That said, I will take the 2UZFE above the 1FZFE offroad any time.
I have to agree with Eric, I think the 80 with 35's will spank the 100 with 35's anytime where the size of the 80 make a difference. His summary of Moab is correct. I am sure you can get a 100 with 35's through Pritchett and Rusty Nail, but it won't be pretty or easy. Not as easy as the 80. will go through, but then again if the owner of the 80 is worried about scraping bumpers and body, it might be just as tough.
On the Shortbus we removed the fear of trashing the body in an effort to see how far we can push the basic 80 drivetrain with some minor mods. It goes a long way but it is not unstoppable or bulletproof. I can safely say that I now know where the limits are of the 80 series drivetrain, both in stock form and with modified components.
Now if we did the same to a 100 (remove body damage worry), somehow fit 39" tires on it, I am not sure it will go as far as the Shortbus did. The IFS will stop it in it's tracks sooner than later. That said, I will take the 2UZFE above the 1FZFE offroad any time.
Agreed based upon my experience: The 80 is a better and probably overall more reliable trail machine; if that's all the type of driving I did I would have me one
. But since a majority of my off-road use is more gravel, dirt roads with quite a bit of open country type double track my 100 as I have it set up makes me happy. And since I can't afford a dialed 80 and a dialed 100, let alone no garage space for 2 I had to make a decision regarding the 80/100 issue solely dependent upon the majority of my travels. And I really like the V8 especially when tugging my AT Horizon along and pushing long distances of highway to get to my adventure land trails 
! "Application, Application, Application"!!!Darren has stated he fits "37" tires with his 10mm BL and doesn't rub" on a 100. For the life of me I can't see how 37" would fit without either: More BL or serious fender modding. Darren, Christo?
Christo: Is the reason you went to 39" on Big Blue is due to the lack of R&P choice? It seems, if the proper R&P gearing was available the 37" tire SAS 100 would be very nice.
I'm sure you all have seen this site... gibraltar Imprts... they're a Toyota dealer that specializes in selling modified Toyota Vehicles. I haven't driven their trucks but was checking them out in Sudan when dealing with some "Doctors without Borders" people. We (state Dept, whom I used to work for) buys different models of 105 (Petrol, diesel and TD) and mods them a bit depending on where they are going (Armor, HF radios,.. etc) and that's what I've driven... they are absolutely amazing.
I'm going to be in Iraq for 6 months next year it looks like,.. I'm going to see if I can import a TD 105 back into the states on my return using that "1 car" exemption we have. I've already contacted Gibraltar to see what it'll cost me. It'll be nice to have one of the only African LCs with TD in the US... woohoo.
Oops.. forgot the links:
http://ecom.toyota-gib.com/
Here's a quick BBC article about them too:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4777293.stm
Of course, one bummer is that looking at the site again,.. they don't have a TD version of the 105... I wonder if that's a US Gov't only option... I'll have to go see.
Bill
TLCA#7390
I'm going to be in Iraq for 6 months next year it looks like,.. I'm going to see if I can import a TD 105 back into the states on my return using that "1 car" exemption we have. I've already contacted Gibraltar to see what it'll cost me. It'll be nice to have one of the only African LCs with TD in the US... woohoo.
Oops.. forgot the links:
http://ecom.toyota-gib.com/
Here's a quick BBC article about them too:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4777293.stm
Of course, one bummer is that looking at the site again,.. they don't have a TD version of the 105... I wonder if that's a US Gov't only option... I'll have to go see.
Bill
TLCA#7390
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sleeoffroad
Supporting Vendor
The reason I went with 39's is that I had them
I want to do another truck. SAS 100 / Turbo'ed with 37" tires. More of an expedition truck. That is why all my stuff is for sale
Great article Bill. If you get a 105, will it be an armored one for travel in and out of DC?
-B-
Great article Bill. If you get a 105, will it be an armored one for travel in and out of DC?
-B-
Having watched the install and testing of the full armour package on our LCs... Don't know if it can survive DC... the armor is only rated for mines and 7.62 rounds...
Bill
The reason I went with 39's is that I had them
I want to do another truck. SAS 100 / Turbo'ed with 37" tires. More of an expedition truck. That is why all my stuff is for sale
That sounds like the bomb to me! I'll be watching with baited breath
. Now hurry up
!
Hard to believe S
ts hasn't poked his pompous ass in here yet !!80 vs 100 ??
Get both !! That's the best route to take !! Best of both worlds.
alvarorb
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I think this guy sums it up pretty well.
As well, Alvaro, I have no interest in the Rubicon 'trail'. If I had an ass load of money in my bank account then I might go to drive the Rubicon. However risking my vehicles to possible severe carnage from a slight mistake isn't what I call practical. As to your 'challenge', is it a fair challenge to someone who has never even seen the Rubicon, to challenge them to a run through it? I am sure it would look great on you, a veteran who knows every boulder and has it WIRED. If I had the time and wanted to subject myself to living amongst Californians to do it, I could wire that trail too. I could get so good at it that I could drive any vehicle through without a scratch. Anyone who is a good driver can do that. So your challenge is ridiculous.
Too bad. With comments like that and the one about the Range Rover, I just think you are brining an argument to get people stirred up. You talk about how your IFS rig does better than SOA rigs, but you're not willing to risk carnage. Makes me wonder what kind of situations those where. And since you don't like to take pictures.... We'll never know. They might have been at a shopping mall parking lot for all I know.
Alvaro
hehe 
In that case, her rig would outperform the 80 series.alvarorb said:
I think the main factor here, keeping the front from flexing is the steep climb the COG is way back, loading the rear axle. Same twist on the level and weight on the front would look different I'm sure.
The reason I went with 39's is that I had them
I want to do another truck. SAS 100 / Turbo'ed with 37" tires. More of an expedition truck. That is why all my stuff is for sale
by the look of my credit card statements that rig should be payed for by now...
