Welding practice (1 Viewer)

[GerhardUngerer]

My red FJ80 has some rust and I have been working diligently on repairing. There are a few spots around the wheels and rockers. I have tried several shops asking for a weld and repair. They all turn me away, saying that it is too big of a vehicle and they make more money with smaller insurance jobs. So.......I decided to see if I can learn to weld.

So I got a door from a Dodge Ram truck that had been in an accident as my practice-subject. I didn't try to do any panel beating on the door. Just found a few spots to cut a hole and weld a patch. Boy, this is going to take some practice. I have watched every video from Fitzee's Fabrications on Youtube who makes it look doable.

Picture of the door below.

For the first patch, I just scribed, cut a hole and welded in a patch. I trimmed on the body side when I should have trimmed the patch (duh!).

For the second patch, I tried Fitzee's "cut and butt" technique. Boy, that is tougher than Fitzee makes it look. I found that my ability to cut a thin line between patch and body SUCKS. The gap was too big and I tried to bridge it.

Any suggestions on cut-off wheel technique? Others tried cut-and-butt? Or do you cut the hole, make a template, and create the plug?

Next step is to try and work on something with a body line.

 

[CharlieS]

Nice work!

I haven't figured it all out. I mostly mig together with lots of tiny tack welds, only as much heat as necessary to join, not enough to blow through, lots if time to cool, minimum heat in the work piece - as you've no doubt discovered, the metal likes to change shape.

I keep an air wand handy to cool welds and put out small fires and use it a lot. I keep a fire extiguisher handy, and haven't had to use it while welding. I also use a bright flashlight to check for holes and gaps when possible.

A lot of any welding job is fitup and prep. I find complex shapes like the patch I did on the rear of the rear wheel well hump super challenging. Template, cut, fit, grind, bend, fit, grind, start all over again...

I mostly work from cardboard stock templates, but like the idea of the cut the hole
to the patch after tacking thing. I find it challenging to make a narrow enough kerf to weld easily when working in odd positions, with wierd shaped patches.

You're doing great!

Also, if you don't have a modern auto darkening hood, they've come a long way in the last 20 years. I just replaced my first auto darkening helmet from 1998 with an $80 hobart from Tractor Supply, and it is amazing.

 

[GerhardUngerer]

Nice work!

I haven't figured it all out. I mostly mig together with lots of tiny tack welds, only as much heat as necessary to join, not enough to blow through, lots if time to cool, minimum heat in the work piece - as you've no doubt discovered, the metal likes to change shape.

I keep an air wand handy to cool welds and put out small fires and use it a lot. I keep a fire extiguisher handy, and haven't had to use it while welding. I also use a bright flashlight to check for holes and gaps when possible.

A lot of any welding job is fitup and prep. I find complex shapes like the patch I did on the rear of the rear wheel well hump super challenging. Template, cut, fit, grind, bend, fit, grind, start all over again...

I mostly work from cardboard stock templates, but like the idea of the cut the hole
to the patch after tacking thing. I find it challenging to make a narrow enough kerf to weld easily when working in odd positions, with wierd shaped patches.

You're doing great!

Also, if you don't have a modern auto darkening hood, they've come a long way in the last 20 years. I just replaced my first auto darkening helmet from 1998 with an $80 hobart from Tractor Supply, and it is amazing.

Thank you for the encouraging words. The thing that I am currently find mostly challenging is actually the cutting. I manage to MIG pieces together Ok and to grind them within reason afterwards. But the cutting. Different story, especially trying the cut-and-butt technique. What kind of cut-off wheel do you use? Mine creates a gap that is just too big.

 

[CharlieS]

I just use a thin cutting wheel from my local hardware store on my Makita grinder.

The technique I saw (but have not mastered) is to angle the blade at something like 45 degrees to sort of undercut the patch. If you go at it 90 degrees to the surface you get a wide kerf.

Also, and only tangentially related - flap discs are awesome for cleaning up after welding.

 

[tmxmotorsports]

Sheet metal work is fun... I use a Miller 130 that I've had for about 25 years got it from a buddy in partial trade for SAS on a chevy extra cab he had it for a few years before me I use .023wire and unimix gas for sheet metal basically stack tacks

 

[aztoyman]

I like these thin .040 cutoff wheels. Amazon product ASIN B07VLX3H94
Sometimes I cut out the rust to the good metal. Then use masking tape over the hole to make an exact fit patch pattern to stick on my new metal. Cut it out and fit it. Personally, I think a no gap fit is best. Or close to it. You can bridge a gap but it pulls when the weld cools and shrinks.

I tend to use .023 wire and make a lot of tacks all around to hold position. Allow to cool. Hammer and dolly the welds as needed. Eventually I either weld between tacks in short beads. Or all the weld ends up being tack welds. Usually really thin metal.

Set your machine to hotter than you would think. The tack really needs to fuse and be pretty flat. I'm talking butt welds mainly. Practice your tacks. Pull the trigger and give it just enough time to fuse through and it will be nice and flat. Let go just before it drops out and makes a hole. It's like a second and a half maybe. The backside will be well fused as well. Play with your settings and find what works for you and your machine. And the steel you're working with.

If your tacks are high and the backside is not fused, you're too cold or not on long enough. A good fitting joint is important. And clean metal.

Looks pretty good by the way.

 

[essco1503]

Hey this is fantastic! I want to learn so bad how to weld but for some reason I find it terrifying. Not of injury. Just of not doing good haha. I found a stick welder for 200 bucks on sale the other day at the hardware store and i really had to think about it. I wish I had picked it up even if it sat in the garage for 6 months. Might make a good winter project for me when all the spiders are out of their summer home

 

[aztoyman]

https://forum.ih8mud.com/attachments/img_20210715_181226337-jpg.2733254/ I changed my welder settings. The smaller tacks didn't penetrate like the larger ones did. I played with both the voltage and wire feed speed.

This was my first attempt at bobbing a bed and body sheet metal in general.

 

[aztoyman]

 

[aztoyman]

As you start to build up tacks, the metal has more mass and doesn't burn through as easy. Actually you can either turn up the machine or hold the trigger a hair longer to make sure you completely fuse into the previous tacks.

I've tried welding longer beads and it works. But it tends to get too hot and potentially warp.

 

[GerhardUngerer]

Hey this is fantastic! I want to learn so bad how to weld but for some reason I find it terrifying. Not of injury. Just of not doing good haha. I found a stick welder for 200 bucks on sale the other day at the hardware store and i really had to think about it. I wish I had picked it up even if it sat in the garage for 6 months. Might make a good winter project for me when all the spiders are out of their summer home

I did quite a bit of research before I bought. Most research pointed to a MIG welder for bodywork. So the stick welder might not have worked.

 

[CharlieS]

I wouldn't waste time with a stick welder for body sheet metal.

Best money you can spend is a class at a local tech center with the oldest instructor. They've forgotten more than we will
ever know. From there it is all practice - buy lots of scrap and try things out. You'll learn to see and hear when a weld is good.

Modern MIG welders are wonders of technical marvel. They can help even the most novice burn a nice bead. Skip the flux core and run a decent steel mix gas.

My 220v multi-process unit does everything I could ask of it. MIG steel, TiG steel, MIG aluminum (spool gun), stick (never use it). Some of the fancier multinprocess units (like Miller) let you run both a steel mix bottle and an aluminum bottle and it auto switches, I have to manually switch mine out.

 

[essco1503]

I did quite a bit of research before I bought. Most research pointed to a MIG welder for bodywork. So the stick welder might not have worked.

Yeah I dont think Im at body work skill level yet. Was more thinking about being able to weld up small things like seat brackets and maybe graduate to some simple steel parts for mounts and stuff like that. I am actually pretty decent at rolling sheet though so maybe I should just suck it up and go right to MIG.

 

[GerhardUngerer]

I wouldn't waste time with a stick welder for body sheet metal.

Best money you can spend is a class at a local tech center with the oldest instructor. They've forgotten more than we will
ever know. From there it is all practice - buy lots of scrap and try things out. You'll learn to see and hear when a weld is good.

Modern MIG welders are wonders of technical marvel. They can help even the most novice burn a nice bead. Skip the flux core and run a decent steel mix gas.

My 220v multi-process unit does everything I could ask of it. MIG steel, TiG steel, MIG aluminum (spool gun), stick (never use it). Some of the fancier multinprocess units (like Miller) let you run both a steel mix bottle and an aluminum bottle and it auto switches, I have to manually switch mine out.

Local tech center? I contacted the nearest community college. They said that they offer certificate courses (associate degree) in welding, but the hobby classes were cancelled due to a lack of interest. I guess people dont weld anymore.

 

[aztoyman]

They have youtube

 

[CharlieS]

I took an adult education night class at a local high school back in 1998. Best money I've spent - learned and tried stick, mig, tig, spot, brazing, etc. Learned from a guy that instructed my father, so he'd been around a long time. Sad to think that this kind of thing might not exist anymore. I've used it a lot in my automotive and motorcycle hobbies over the years, including stitch welding a rally car chassis and replacing the sunroof with a non-sunroof version.

 

[tmxmotorsports]

I took an adult education night class at a local high school back in 1998. Best money I've spent - learned and tried stick, mig, tig, spot, brazing, etc. Learned from a guy that instructed my father, so he'd been around a long time. Sad to think that this kind of thing might not exist anymore. I've used it a lot in my automotive and motorcycle hobbies over the years, including stitch welding a rally car chassis and replacing the sunroof with a non-sunroof version.

Alot of old stuff is a dieing breed now days

 

[DivByZero]

Looks like you're just a few weeks ahead of where I am. I have some body work to do on my 80:

Rust Repair - What would you do with this?

Some background first of all. So my 80 is in pretty good nick overall, and the frame is rust free. The body has some issues though, with some attempts at a repair by the previous owner. Whoever owned this rig before liked to do some water crossings it seems. However they didn't take the time to...

forum.ih8mud.com

I also want to weld in the seat brackets for rear seats, so I have the option of running with them.

After spending a long time looking at models and thinking about it, I just picked up a MIG welder and plasma cutter. I'm also seriously considering getting a pulsed TIG machine so I can learn both types. I'm interested to see how you go, I just need to pick up gas and wire for mine, and I'll be starting to practice too.

 

[leonard_nemoy]

Prep prep prep

 

[robmobile73]

I welded for 20 years with a spoolgun flux core(ready welder) attached to 2 car batteries. Since the birth of the newer lightweight "inverter"welders and plasma cutters they are able to bring in that stuff cheap made overseas. Prices have fallen through the floor compared to the older bigger heavy American equipment. I finally upgraded to a modern mig/tig machine and a small plasma cutter. Another money saving tip is to go to your local recycling yard to find your gas cylinder. Often used CO2 cylinders (used with fountain drink machines) from bankrupt restaurents , bars, convenience stores end up there. I picked up 2 for less than $5 each(one with functioning regulator attached) and was able to take them to my local Airgas for a cylinder exchange on one and the other they gave me significant credit toward a small argon cylinder. Now I have a small pure argon for aluminum and C02 for steel.....................Welding is not that difficult depending on what you are trying to do 1. just stick metal together=Easy, 2. stick metal together and have it look decent=takes a few hours practice 3. Weld small parts and thin steel for fabrication without damage=takes significant practice and care 4. make 95-100% perfect welds and good enough to get paid as a welder=takes training from a pro- and quite a bit of experience(I';m not there)..........................Most of the commentary that makes welding seem very complicated is coming from Pro's who are trying to get to perfect welds. Don't let it intimidate you. Jump in and get going, you will get there!

If you want to see absolute human welding perfection at the NASA rocket center museum in Huntsville Alabama they have Saturn 5 rocket engines on display. There is intricate welding of aluminum barely thicker than a beer can on those engines. It is flawless...Best of the best that humans can do on display.