Update: 5W-30 & Heavier Recommended RoTW (4 Viewers)

[2021 LC200]

Well, together with shear thinning and temperatures in the motor during operating conditions being in a very similar range where ever you are I think -20 remains a bad plan. It is just to thin and only becomes thinner as the mileage ticks away.

We in Houston or San Diego should probably run 0W40 or 5W40, yet I have settled for 5W30 as the compromise.

 

[Mingus Dew]

And why not 10W30 in warm weather climates? Get a 30 weight with less additives that should be more stable at operating temperature.

Again I’m not ever starting the car in ambient temps below 20F (and if that hits in the winter it’s national news). So why run a 0W oil? It’s providing me with 0 benefit as far as I can tell.

I’m looking at something like Amsoil 10W-30 and I think there is a good argument to move to 5W-40 (or any 40 weight) if I am (I) doing heavy towing and (II) operating in a mild to warm climate.

 

[xeuxaz]

Almost all wear is from cold start. There is an argument to be made that the 0w helps even in non freezing weather.

0w30 seems like a good compromise but 5w30 is cheaper and what the engine was speced with originally.

 

[2021 LC200]

When you look at the charts both 0W and 5W are good choices for real cold conditions. While I live in Houston and could happily use 10W, any road trip to New Mexico or Colorado in the mountains during winter could be a push so I stick with 0W or 5W for just in case. Obviously northern states can encounter real cold conditions in winter anytime, again a good idea to have 0W or 5W.

For context fairly high HP/displacement engines from BMW use 5W oil in many models (like the 535i) and they are sold throughout Northern Europe and Scandinavia so 5W seems perfectly fine for colder conditions unless it becomes extreme. In Alaska and parts of Canada when forced to park outside at night in winter I would use 0W oil and the more complex additives in there to make it work. Otherwise 5W is your cold start solution right there.

 

[Mingus Dew]

What is the case against using something like M1 0W40 then, outside of MPG and HP reductions?

 

[2021 LC200]

It is a good choice and is what TecKis300 uses. I do believe he carefully considers what he does and so is using 0W40.

The argument in favor of 0W40 is while 0W uses a thinner base oil and more viscosifier additives which can shear making a 0W40 more like a 0W30 with time, that still is excellent cold start with 0W and eventual -30 viscosity still provides better support for the bearings and oil pump pressure for the chain actuator etc. Go for it yet keep those change intervals up (say 7.5k or 5k) so the engine stays nice and clean, keeping the small bore oil channels happy at the crank and cam shafts.

 

[Mingus Dew]

It is a good choice and is what TecKis300 uses. He does carefully consider what he does and so is using 0W40.

The argument in favor of 0W40 is while 0W uses a thinner base oil and more viscosifier additives which can shear making a 0W40 more like a 0W30 with time, that still is excellent cold start with 0W and eventual -30 viscosity still provides better support for the bearings and oil pump pressure for the chain actuator etc. Go for it yet keep those change intervals up (say 7.5k or 5k) so the engine stays nice and clean, keeping the small bore oil channels happy at the crank and cam shafts.

Thanks for the helpful response. I am doing oil changes at 5k mile intervals.

I live in Florida and road trips aren’t going to happen in Winter much, outside of maybe a snowboarding excursion but more likely to fly for that.

I’d rather get maximum protection for the engine given my high ambient temps.

 

[2021 LC200]

For that use case similar to Houston conditions the 5W30 Ultra Platinum is good stable oil and relative cheap at places like Walmart or online via Amazon home delivered.

The oil geek seems to like that oil as well although these YouTubers often say a lot and you need to figure out what really matters for your case.

 

[BigSwede]

Toyota Recommends everything from 5W-30 UP TO 20W-50 in the 3UR-FE in other parts of the world. TIS recommends 5W-30 thru 20W-50 for Tundras in Mexico. I went so far as to cross reference oil system part numbers and concluded that there are no differences between 3UR’s across the world. Moreover, as @bjowett has indicated - tolerances on Toyota NA V8’s from the 1UZ in the original Lexus LS to the current high performance 2UR-GSE and low stressed 3UR-FE all have essentially the same main bearing tolerances.

Conclusively, I will be running 5W-30 here on out in my 2014 and 2020 3UR-FE. There is increased protection with a heavier weight oil, it’s more prevalent in the global marketplace, and Toyota/Lexus states that “a higher viscosity may be used under certain operating conditions” in the USA Owner’s Manual.

Interesting Read here: Excessive oil consumption

Interesting that when you select a region other than NA, heavier oils are recommended here: Castrol Oil Selector

While there is no doubt TGMO 0W-20 is good oil - is it the best? Were decisions made inside Toyota solely due to EPA/CAFE regulations? I think so.....Especially since running 0W-20 has proven to provide enough coverage to get them out of even the longest term warranty contract available.

Thoughts???

Just parachuting into this conversation as I recently picked up a 2019 LX, but I have had a 2018 GX for 4 years, and last year I went though the same logic chain, and switched to 5W30, and will be doing the same for the LX. I use the GX off road, and do some towing with the LX, so I think 5W30 is a better choice. The minuscule improvement in fuel economy for 0W20 isn't worth it to me.

 

[gasman4u]

For that use case similar to Houston conditions the 5W30 Ultra Platinum is good stable oil and relative cheap at places like Walmart or online via Amazon home delivered.

The oil geek seems to like that oil as well although these YouTubers often say a lot and you need to figure out what really matters for your case.

Pennzoil UP is good oil that’s readily available. Especially at 5k intervals.

Just parachuting into this conversation as I recently picked up a 2019 LX, but I have had a 2018 GX for 4 years, and last year I went though the same logic chain, and switched to 5W30, and will be doing the same for the LX. I use the GX off road, and do some towing with the LX, so I think 5W30 is a better choice. The minuscule improvement in fuel economy for 0W20 isn't worth it to me.

Whatever fuel economy gains (minimal) will only be realized and taken for granted by the first lease holder who turns it in after 3 years/25k. Anyone with long term plans of ownership should (likely) use a heavier wt oil than 0w20 imo.

 

[TeCKis300]

For clarification, I use 0W-30. Specifically because I tow in hot weather above rating while running large tires.

IMO, both 10W cold ratings and -40 weights as well above what anyone needs.

Couple points
- Even GMs situation, where the root cause is a manufacturing issue and not a oil viscosity issue - once they replace the engine, they are going back and recommending 0W-20 on the good replacement engines.

- The 3UR-FE is a very low stress design. Making under 70 hp/liter. Family sedans motors are higher stress. It's cooling system is incredibly robust and never sees more than 190-195F coolant temps in normal use. Off-roading is not taxing on these motors. Towing is about the only real stressing use case requiring extended outputs where I have actually seen 204F coolant temps at most (moving over 15k lbs of rig).

Overcompensating may very well do more harm than good. We have Toyotas and the 3UR-FE has already shown proven reliability. It's projecting to compensate for an issue that's never been there, only to possibly create real issues.

 

[Willie G]

- The 3UR-FE is a very low stress design. Making under 70 hp/liter. Family sedans motors are higher stress. It's cooling system is incredibly robust and never sees more than 190-195F coolant temps in normal use. Off-roading is not taxing on these motors. Towing is about the only real stressing use case requiring extended outputs where I have actually seen 204F coolant temps at most (moving over 15k lbs of rig).

Overcompensating may very well do more harm than good. We have Toyotas and the 3UR-FE has already shown proven reliability. It's projecting to compensate for an issue that's never been there, only to possibly create real issues.

"Overcompensating"??? This bunch? No way!

 

[gasman4u]

For clarification, I use 0W-30. Specifically because I tow in hot weather above rating while running large tires.

IMO, both 10W cold ratings and -40 weights as well above what anyone needs.

Couple points
- Even GMs situation, where the root cause is a manufacturing issue and not a oil viscosity issue - once they replace the engine, they are going back and recommending 0W-20 on the good replacement engines.

- The 3UR-FE is a very low stress design. Making under 70 hp/liter. Family sedans motors are higher stress. It's cooling system is incredibly robust and never sees more than 190-195F coolant temps in normal use. Off-roading is not taxing on these motors. Towing is about the only real stressing use case requiring extended outputs where I have actually seen 204F coolant temps at most (moving over 15k lbs of rig).

Overcompensating may very well do more harm than good. We have Toyotas and the 3UR-FE has already shown proven reliability. It's projecting to compensate for an issue that's never been there, only to possibly create real issues.

In my prior truck (3.5 eCoBOosT) with a tune, I’d see coolant temps of 230° easily when getting after it. I don’t have the same sort of scanning ability with my 200. And I’m ok with that. Given the robust nature (N/A, low HP/liter, port injection, etc) mentioned above I’d agree that we may be getting wrapped around the axle with our pontificating.

Haha

 

[Mingus Dew]

Pontificating is fun though

 

[2021 LC200]

I choose 5W30 because I can see it is better suited for the 3UR FE and costs no more for the oil itself. Fuel consumption wise your right foot and tires and roof rack etc are the big movers.

Also like to prevent an issue with the timing chain tensioner not getting enough pressure.

 

[gaijin]

Just parachuting into this conversation as I recently picked up a 2019 LX, but I have had a 2018 GX for 4 years, and last year I went though the same logic chain, and switched to 5W30, and will be doing the same for the LX. I use the GX off road, and do some towing with the LX, so I think 5W30 is a better choice. The minuscule improvement in fuel economy for 0W20 isn't worth it to me.

This often overlooked page from Toyota should put your mind at ease about your choice to use 5W-30:

HTH

 

[04UZJ100]

For clarification, I use 0W-30. Specifically because I tow in hot weather above rating while running large tires.

IMO, both 10W cold ratings and -40 weights as well above what anyone needs.

Couple points
- Even GMs situation, where the root cause is a manufacturing issue and not a oil viscosity issue - once they replace the engine, they are going back and recommending 0W-20 on the good replacement engines.

- The 3UR-FE is a very low stress design. Making under 70 hp/liter. Family sedans motors are higher stress. It's cooling system is incredibly robust and never sees more than 190-195F coolant temps in normal use. Off-roading is not taxing on these motors. Towing is about the only real stressing use case requiring extended outputs where I have actually seen 204F coolant temps at most (moving over 15k lbs of rig).

Overcompensating may very well do more harm than good. We have Toyotas and the 3UR-FE has already shown proven reliability. It's projecting to compensate for an issue that's never been there, only to possibly create real issues.

Is it just me or do Toyotas run much cooler than the big 3? (Trucks/SUVs at least). I’ve had rental gas 2500s and they run at like 215-220 just running around town.

 

[2021 LC200]

Is it just me or do Toyotas run much cooler than the big 3? (Trucks/SUVs at least). I’ve had rental gas 2500s and they run at like 215-220 just running around town.

Probably that baby bottoms smooth finish and fine tolerances by Mr T…

I guess placement of the temp sensor could make a difference and many many other factors like the cooling system design.

 

[xeuxaz]

It’s probably to squeeze out more efficiency. BMWs run hot too. They can control that all with the thermostat etc. (electronic)

 

[TeCKis300]

Is it just me or do Toyotas run much cooler than the big 3? (Trucks/SUVs at least). I’ve had rental gas 2500s and they run at like 215-220 just running around town.

Yeah, the 200-series runs cooler than every car I own. In normal operation, it won't usually see much over 190°F.

This below snapshot is absolutely caning the rig with foot to the floor, high ambient temps, pegged tach in second gear climbing an extended 7% grade with travel trailer in tow. The transmission will continue to heat soak, but I'm always surprised how stable the engine coolant temp is.

It’s probably to squeeze out more efficiency. BMWs run hot too. They can control that all with the thermostat etc. (electronic)

Great point. Perhaps evidence again where Toyota trades engine durability and longevity over MPG.