Twisted rear axle shaft

[cruiserdan]

It's fun to poke Rick with a stick.

The east-coast in him really comes out....

















I can say this because I have sat at his kitchen table, eating his outstanding ribs and drinking his beer...

 

[landtank]

It's fun to poke Rick with a stick.

The east-coast in him really comes out....

listen you gray haired pot bellied troll






































let me know the next time you/re around and I'll get the ribs going

 

[landtank]

Could also be the holier than thou attitude with which Rick presents almost every idea he has...

Just sayin.

don't mean to and sorry about that.

This thread started with me twisting up my stock axles. At that time it was thought the poly performance would help it.

I reported back that the poly axles actually had the same effect only under less load.

Having seen it twice now and convinced that the problem doesn't lie in material make up I started looking at the axles and the diff while it was out of the housing to see if maybe something could be done to stop the axle from locking in place when twisted.

Maybe swapping out the axle is the only answer but I'm not ready to take that leap until I explore all my options. And for me my options expand beyond some part catalog or web site as I'll make what I want if I think it will get the job done.

There is often a difference between the best available solution and the best possible one. And then sometinmes they are the same.

 

[cruiserdan]

Yum, yum!


The ribs, that is.

 

[GXO]

I think if Rick is developing this for a product, go for it. If he is doing it because it is fun and a hobby, good for you.

I just know what happened to me, what I saw, and what I did to fix it, and fix it for good.

 

[firetruck41]

It helps that he bought me a beer, but Rick doesn't seem "holier than thou" to me. I like how he thinks outside the box, and in practical terms (not just theoretical, ie. Sumtoy). Being a mall cruiser, I won't need his solution, but it is interesting to follow, nonetheless, just like the turbo thread- supercool!

 

[-Spike-]

Here's a solution. Grind a notch around the axle shaft so it breaks there, like a fuse. Carry several spares and a really powerful magnet-on-a-stick to retrieve the broken part from the axle tube.

 

[Nay]

Here is the deal:

At the point I am considering the cost of swapping in ARB's, I start thinking about just swapping the entire rear axle for something much stronger with a Detroit and keeping the e-locked front, selling the e-locked rear with 5.29's to offset the cost. Between avoiding the ARB cost and selling the 5.29 e-locked rear, I can come close enough to pay for that beefed up 60. No brainer.

Christo knows well enough the folly of investing in the stock axles when you are at the limit. Just do the entire rear, and you are halfway to that custom front end that is also going to let you redesign the front suspension entirely.

So a solution that keeps everything stock and carrying a full float axle spare is a good one, if it works, and your driving style isn't axle busting (mine isn't for sure).

 

[landtank]

Here's a solution. Grind a notch around the axle shaft so it breaks there, like a fuse. Carry several spares and a really powerful magnet-on-a-stick to retrieve the broken part from the axle tube.

nicely done! It actually gets real easy when you carry this line of thinking forward.

The splines (in my opinion) are made like they are for two reasons.

1. That is the total distance between the collar and the spider unlocked

2. It's simply easier to carve up a single length of spline to that distance.


Now the collar only travels 5mm between unlocked and locked. Since the collar is 25mm long why not eliminate the splines outside the locked area (the area that I've had issues). They serve no purpose while locked and if the shaft does twist they impede the collar from movement and eventually lock it in place. Get rid of them!

Let's carry this further:

The splines between the collar and the spider also serve no purpose. They are not used either locked or unlocked. So lets remove them! If they are not there then they can't be a problem if the shaft twists. The distance between the two is greater than 25mm so you would simply rotate the shaft slightly to realign the splines after the twist and slide them through the collar.


Lastly: by removing the splines outside the collar toward the wheel, we might be focusing the twist in a spot were a failure will be close to the collar and easily retrieved ( by a magnet on the end of the broken shaft or worse pulling the third)

I have this design drawn up in AutoCad and have been reluctant to post it as it might not be 100% perfected. I need to trash the design to be sure it's 100%.

IMO poly performance improved the materials used to facilitate the off road environment but didn't improve on it's design. They basically copied the design which in turn copied it's short comings.

 

[cool breeze]

Although all of the specifics of design and function of the locker are above my current knowledge, I find this thread interesting. Im curious, since the e-locker design appears to be weak past a certain point, would using a mechanical type ie. Aussie result in a stronger rear end?

 

[GXO]

I run an aussie in a non-elocker rear third and it is most definitely stronger than the e-locker I had before.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Rick, in post 60 I alluded to this. So you have measured the distances and it will work. The only assumption now is that the twisting will happen only in the non splined area. When the locker is locked, this is still a small section of splines that re going to be sticking out of the collar. Most likely the twisting will happen right outside the collar (like it does now) so you might still have a small section of twisted splines.

Clearing the splines between the locking collar and the spider gear splines might help wiith the times when it get stuck pretty bad, but you have to ensure that no splines are outside the spider or the locking collar otherwise the same thing will happen.

Also how you terminate the splines might create stress risers and weak spots.

As for the magnet idea, in theory yes, probably is sticking a strong magnet into the housing, it tends to want to grab the housing or closest metal. So it is very difficult to keep it straight until you hit the stub of the shaft without pulling sidways. BTDT. I always thought a big strong electromagnet would be the answer. That way you can locate it, then turn it on.

As for the Ausie locker, yes it illimates the answer, but a mini locker in the stock carrier is not nearly as strong as an ARB carrier.

 

[Southeast Overland]

Could also be the holier than thou attitude with which Rick presents almost every idea he has...

Just sayin.

I've met and wheeled with Rick - aside from being a yankee he is a nice guy! After spending several days with him on the trail I NEVER saw a "holier than thou attitude."

Lets not bash the guys on the board who take it upon themselves to solve Cruiser problems and come out with new products - huh?

Just sayin.

 

[Arya Ebrahimi]

I guess Rick is one of those people who is a nice guy in person and I just misread his words on the internet. Wouldn't be the first time.

I think I frequently mistake his enthusiasm for condecension. Something people often mistake with me. I'll try to be a bit more open minded.

Meanwhile, this "fusible axle shaft" idea, doesn't sit well with me. Seems like you're purposely introducing a weaker link instead of reinforcing the current weak link.

In the interest of progress, I'd like to propose another solution. I'm not intimately familiar with the locking collar mechanism, but would it be feasible to produce a collar with a larger opening to allow for a larger shaft and a corresponding axle shaft that has a larger diameter with more splines? This would presumably transfer the twisting to the smaller diameter of the remainder of the shaft.

 

[landtank]

no problems with anyone... at the moment

here is the drawing that I've come up with. If you want to use it it's all on you.

Right now I wish I had more data that just two twisted shafts but it is what it is.

My bad shaft gets to poly performance tomorrow so I'll call and talk with them on Monday.

My first inclination is to only remove the splines outside of the collar in hopes that the twisting stays localized there and eventually breaks there as well.

I don't know right now and need to chew on this a little more in hoping that I make the right call.

I included a PDF if someone wants that to print out and use.

 

[inkpot]

Howdy! Personally, I think you might be onto something here. Removing the unused areas of spline should not make the axle much weaker, but it should make it easier to remove/replace when it does fail. Wouldn't that area become the "fuse" as it would be a bit less resistant to rotational forces? This has become an interesting thread, and I don't even own one of these 80 thingamajigs. John

 

[Nay]

This thread makes me want one of these. Look at the clearance with more than stock D60 strength. People spend an awful lot of time and money trying to make Toyota stuff work when it just doesn't work any more. The have it in nodular iron now, for heavier rigs.

Currie Enterprises CJ RockJock®

 

[concretejungle]

I hear you Nay, but IMHO, it's pretty cool running toyota equipment in a toyota. That's just me and i don't have huge tires (just 35's), but i do wheel it.

Also, another JMHO, but with all the money thrown into a lift to get to a 37" or taller tire, steering geometry issues, axle upgrades, ect.... i still don't know why more aren't looking for a set of portals and doing what tirediron did.

 

[huckthehaus]

set of portals and doing what tirediron did.

thats the way mine is going when i reach this point. Mine is just a weekend truck anyhow

 

[Nay]

I hear you Nay, but IMHO, it's pretty cool running toyota equipment in a toyota. That's just me and i don't have huge tires (just 35's), but i do wheel it.

Also, another JMHO, but with all the money thrown into a lift to get to a 37" or taller tire, steering geometry issues, axle upgrades, ect.... i still don't know why more aren't looking for a set of portals and doing what tirediron did.

Tirediron's rig was trailered. Not much point in having an 80 that doesn't do road duty all that well...that just leaves you with a 3 ton "buggy". The value of the 80 is that you can drive 500 miles in a day and wheel it when you get there. Take out the 500 miles part and you pretty much have an ocean of sheet metal and glass, plus a low hanging frame, that together will always be a liability no matter how much you try to convince yourself otherwise.

Toyota owners are crazy about keeping Toyota running gear under their rigs. Having just wheeled with a long standing project buggy FJ40 with a 80 rear converted to the front, which blew up on the first run on some pretty tame stuff for a buggy, it's a waste of time. Christo put an 80 diff in a Diamond housing on the Blueberry for a front axle, and promptly blue D) it up. And it's not like these things have good clearance or are even remotely lightweight.

Christo is probably right for the average wheeler who is pushing the limits to a degree like me - do the ARB. It's way too much money just to keep the stock axle...but you get to keep the stock axle so it is also completely simple. KISS is often the best rule for a dual purpose rig, even if sometimes it actually costs a bit more.