He may have trailered it....but....
Certainly sounds like having a dual purpose rig with portals is feasible.
Twisted rear axle shaft
- Thread starter landtank
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He may have trailered it....but....
Certainly sounds like having a dual purpose rig with portals is feasible.
he said over and over that he could easily drive down the road and cruise at 65mph no problems. He trailered it because he could and had the truck/trailer to do it. THen he could wheel the piss out of it and not worry about driving it home.
I guess my point is that with the amount of money you throw at trying to get to that magical large tire size without breaking axles, birfs, e-locker collar jamming issues and then upgrade to ARBs, gears, linkage, tall springs and new shocks....... with the same money (probably even less) you can have that magical tire size on a cheap, low lift, have the axle strength there and be done.
Sure, I agree completely. Best move if you are going big is never invest a dime in the stock stuff. No gears, no polys, no longfields, no nothing. But most builds happen in increments, which is how you end up spending as much on your stock junk once you bust something once or twice as you would have spent on custom stuff that would have been bullet proof.
As to choosing portals, a military axle and a one ton light duty truck axle I doubt are the same beast when it comes to cruising say cross country. Perhaps they run as smoothly and quietly? Being able to cruise at an RPM to speed ratio is not the same thing as cruising without your drivetrain making you aware it is there at all times. An 8 hour trip to Moab with four kids that doesn't happen quietly and smoothly doesn't happen at all.
Personally, I'd get the Currie or Dynatrac setups, with the sophisticated high pinion oiling systems (especially Currie in this regard, because you need a sophisticated oiling system for proper cooling with these high clearance housings), and all the other goodies. I have run a Currie high pinion 9" as a rear axle, and it was as smooth as anything you'd get from the factory.
I simply cannot imagine the same result with military portal axles, and it is telling to me that both of the portal builds here have been sold. Because if it is not dual purpose, meaning you drive it mostly onroad, why on earth drive something as compromised in size and weight as an 80 to begin with that has so little aftermarket support?
Get 37's next time and you'll realize there is no practical difference to 35's unless you change the trails you run. The tires typically weigh within 5% of each other, the gear ratio that works best for you for one works best for the other, and the suspension that fits 35's easily will clear 37's with very minor tuning at most.
Which means you will actually run the trails you run now with 35's with greater ease, less throttle, and more comfort. Fixing a locker mechanism is the least of things if everything else is working exactly as you want it. Portals sound to me like a cure that is far worse than the original problem.
I can't drive 30 minutes with 3 kids quietly and smoothly, let along 8 hours. It has nothing to do with the rig.Nay said:
I'm subscribed! Cable locked 60 axles have the same long splines on the driver side, so this may be a good fix 
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I haven’t seen a full explanation of the design that causes this, so will give it a shot, could be wrong but this is how I see it: All of the other selectable lockers that I have seen lock the spider (side gear) to the carrier, so each spider drives it’s axle. This rear locks the passenger axle to the carrier, the extended passenger axle end locks the spiders.
The passenger axle being driven off of the carrier is a solid setup, if overloaded will twist/break the axle outboard of the collar. The driver axle drive goes though the spiders to the passenger axle stub, due to the spider action the rotation/load is reversed. So if the driver side is overloaded, the passenger axle can be twisted/broken, but will be in reverse to the driver axle rotation and between the spider and lock collar. If both axles are over loaded it’s possible to have the passenger axle twisted in both directions. Both axles drive off of the passenger axle and it’s loaded in both directions.
If “drive it like a man” equals breaking stuff just for fun, then I’m good with driving like a
not a big fan of trail wrenching or walking.
My wheeling philosophy has always been to identify the rigs capabilities, limitations and get the most out of it within them. My main goal on the trail is to drive the rig home, so see breakage as a failure of equipment and/or driver, also a learning experience, ie don’t do that again! I see this as one of those limitations.
The ’80 is a 2.5+ ton bus and IMHO every pound added to it makes it less capable and more prone to breakage. Yes putting a bigger axle in will solve that problem, but what is the next weak link and it’s still a 2.5+ ton bus. IMHO there are places/lines where an ‘80 doesn’t belong, if you want to go there, $$$ are probably better spent by starting with a ton or so lighter rig?
The passenger axle being driven off of the carrier is a solid setup, if overloaded will twist/break the axle outboard of the collar. The driver axle drive goes though the spiders to the passenger axle stub, due to the spider action the rotation/load is reversed. So if the driver side is overloaded, the passenger axle can be twisted/broken, but will be in reverse to the driver axle rotation and between the spider and lock collar. If both axles are over loaded it’s possible to have the passenger axle twisted in both directions. Both axles drive off of the passenger axle and it’s loaded in both directions.
If “drive it like a man” equals breaking stuff just for fun, then I’m good with driving like a
not a big fan of trail wrenching or walking. My wheeling philosophy has always been to identify the rigs capabilities, limitations and get the most out of it within them. My main goal on the trail is to drive the rig home, so see breakage as a failure of equipment and/or driver, also a learning experience, ie don’t do that again! I see this as one of those limitations. The ’80 is a 2.5+ ton bus and IMHO every pound added to it makes it less capable and more prone to breakage. Yes putting a bigger axle in will solve that problem, but what is the next weak link and it’s still a 2.5+ ton bus. IMHO there are places/lines where an ‘80 doesn’t belong, if you want to go there, $$$ are probably better spent by starting with a ton or so lighter rig?
i'm not trying to bust any ballz at all, nor do i have a dog in this fight as far as making money. I do see the limitations of wheeling a big rig, and like Kevin pointed out, i hate to walk and i hate turning wrenchs on the trail.
My rig right now is kinda stuck in my "build" since funds are short. At some point i want to finish it out. But don't get me wrong, i still wheel it as best i see fit without trying to break anything. knock-on-wood...anyone who has wheeled with me can verify that i do try things and don't pussy-foot around.
Every time i see a build-up thread or upgraded axle thread, or gears thread.... i keep going back to tiredirons build thread. All the pics and youtube videos he has shown pictures his rig going up and over some serious stuff. Even hanging with buggies in SOME stuff. So i keep thinking in my head, that is a pretty straight forward swap in order to get 95% of what i need/want out of my rig simple and probably most cost effective. Add forced induction for some extra highway cruise power and i feel like that's it.
So that's my final 2cent in this thread. But i do enjoy reading and watching all the build threads.
My rig right now is kinda stuck in my "build" since funds are short. At some point i want to finish it out. But don't get me wrong, i still wheel it as best i see fit without trying to break anything. knock-on-wood...anyone who has wheeled with me can verify that i do try things and don't pussy-foot around.
Every time i see a build-up thread or upgraded axle thread, or gears thread.... i keep going back to tiredirons build thread. All the pics and youtube videos he has shown pictures his rig going up and over some serious stuff. Even hanging with buggies in SOME stuff. So i keep thinking in my head, that is a pretty straight forward swap in order to get 95% of what i need/want out of my rig simple and probably most cost effective. Add forced induction for some extra highway cruise power and i feel like that's it.
So that's my final 2cent in this thread. But i do enjoy reading and watching all the build threads.
14 bolt axles are 150$ any day. new 14b detroit lockers instal like a lunch box locker (you dont need a new carrier) and are $600. you can install these yourself with no experience-just bolt it in and reassemble-because you reuse the carrier you dont have a difficult gear setup. ive seen it done many times
But if you do a 14b you need 2 new 8lug wheels ($150)
and 2 matching wheels for the front 6 lub so you dont look too ugly-optional ($150)
chop off and reuse the link axle brackets-spring perch, etc (free)
adapt the brakelines and keep the rear drum brakes so you have an ebrake ($50)
get a 14b pinion adapter to run the 80 driveshaft ($85)
now sell your entire locking rear toyota axle to the mini truck crowd for $500 to recoup a little cost
sell all the yota wheels and get back some cash there too
so for a net cost of $700 you have the ultimate rear wheeling axle. trim the lower bolt on the diff to give more clearance. drives down the road at 90mph and you wheel the piss out of your truck with no worries. install some 40's
add 600 bucks to do the same with a junk yard dana 60.
be sure to upgrade the front too....
But if you do a 14b you need 2 new 8lug wheels ($150)
and 2 matching wheels for the front 6 lub so you dont look too ugly-optional ($150)
chop off and reuse the link axle brackets-spring perch, etc (free)
adapt the brakelines and keep the rear drum brakes so you have an ebrake ($50)
get a 14b pinion adapter to run the 80 driveshaft ($85)
now sell your entire locking rear toyota axle to the mini truck crowd for $500 to recoup a little cost
sell all the yota wheels and get back some cash there too
so for a net cost of $700 you have the ultimate rear wheeling axle. trim the lower bolt on the diff to give more clearance. drives down the road at 90mph and you wheel the piss out of your truck with no worries. install some 40's
add 600 bucks to do the same with a junk yard dana 60.
be sure to upgrade the front too....
Or if LT's idea works out, a bit of time with a grinding disk....free.
You could buy a fair amount of rear axle shafts for $700.
Anything ever come of this? The 80 e-locked rear is almost a dream axle except for this short coming. If this twisting issue could be solved this axle would be everything I could ask for.
- Thread starter
- #131
nothing yet. I've got a test axle and need to work through the process. Too many irons in the fire right now.
i dont understand why you couldnt just pull the driver side shaft and use a long steel bar and a BFH to hammer the twisted Passender side shaft?
The pinion cross shaft is in the way.
damn. so what if you pulled the pinion? not sure if thats possible without removeing the third, but there is a big pinion nut so maybe
also what do you think about some 300m double spline shafts? think they could hold up to this twisting?
also what do you think about some 300m double spline shafts? think they could hold up to this twisting?
The pinion cross shaft (not to be confused with the pinion shaft) is inside the diff and is not accessible when the diff is in place.
few more questions. I recently got a set of 97 elocker axles. I am puting them under my 07 tacoma to give you a lil background of where i am coming from. I had heard a little bit about this issue before but didnt realize it was as "inevitable" as this thread is having me believe.
a few questions,
1. Can swap out the elocker and carrier for a detroit in the 3rd member i have now?
2. With detroit can i run larger axle shafts? say 35 spline?
3. Do you think some 300m double spline shafts would hold up to this twisting on my 5000lb rig?
I am really trying to avoid arbs at all costs, dont want to deal with airlines/compressors, this 9.5" rear is almost a dream axle minus this twisting crap. the more i am looking at it i may have to say to hell with the 9.5 and get a 9" or d60. which i would really rather not do because this set cost me about a grand and i was planning on sending the outers to diamond for a custom housing.
a few questions,
1. Can swap out the elocker and carrier for a detroit in the 3rd member i have now?
2. With detroit can i run larger axle shafts? say 35 spline?
3. Do you think some 300m double spline shafts would hold up to this twisting on my 5000lb rig?
I am really trying to avoid arbs at all costs, dont want to deal with airlines/compressors, this 9.5" rear is almost a dream axle minus this twisting crap. the more i am looking at it i may have to say to hell with the 9.5 and get a 9" or d60. which i would really rather not do because this set cost me about a grand and i was planning on sending the outers to diamond for a custom housing.
Twisting comes under throttle - how do you wheel? Not something you have to "fix" if you don't drive in a way that is likely to cause a failure.
The Detroit (and other aftermarket options) only support stock spline count shafts. No big axle diffs for the 80.
The Detroit (and other aftermarket options) only support stock spline count shafts. No big axle diffs for the 80.
- Thread starter
- #138
the only time I've twisted a shaft was when in 1st gear low range and on the throttle. You should note that my truck is on the heavy side, have 35" tires and 4.88s.
I've never have had a problem in similar situations when in 2nd start mode.
I've never have had a problem in similar situations when in 2nd start mode.
- Thread starter
- #139
I've made a little progress on this project. I bought a spare shaft and had it machined to remove the section of splines that create the problem when twisted. I need to install it now and go beat the crap out of my truck. There is a line scribed into the shaft so I can determine when and by how much the shaft has twisted.
Looks purdy.
So the idea is that if it twists, it will twist between the two sets of splines. For removing it (if twisted) you'd just pull it out partway, rotate it slightly to line up the second set of splines, then pull the rest of the way out?
How much did the machining set you back, and how difficult was it to do?
So the idea is that if it twists, it will twist between the two sets of splines. For removing it (if twisted) you'd just pull it out partway, rotate it slightly to line up the second set of splines, then pull the rest of the way out?
How much did the machining set you back, and how difficult was it to do?
