Trim Packers / Rear Spacers who’s running them?

[TeCKis300]

Agreed you'll want to make sure the springs you installed are at the right sides first.

That said, I think you'll want about 15mm worth of trim packers, rather than try to make up for the full difference.

I do have trim packers installed on my LX for a different reason, to augment AHC for higher loads (LRA tank), then AHC lift. But the spacers/trim packers, parts are the same. I have 2x 10mm spacers on each side, or 20mm of spacers total on each side. As I upgraded in stages, I added 10mm, and then another 10mm spacer. The install is pretty easy.

I have one spacer above the spring isolator (between chassis and spring isolator), one below (between isolator and spring). If you're not sure, I'd say start with a 15mm trim packer and adjust from there.

 

[TLC2013]

So the Passenger, fuel tank side has the spring marked R/H as shown in the image. This should be correct as the passenger side spring is longer to compensate for the fuel weight. My lean has the passenger side sitting 1.25” higher then the driver side.

 

[TLC2013]

Just making sure taller spring was installed on passenger side.

Thanks for the reminder To double check. , I wish it would be that simple lol.

 

[afgman786]

Agreed you'll want to make sure the springs you installed are at the right sides first.

That said, I think you'll want about 15mm worth of trim packers, rather than try to make up for the full difference.

I do have trim packers installed on my LX for a different reason, to augment AHC for higher loads (LRA tank), then AHC lift. But the spacers/trim packers, parts are the same. I have 2x 10mm spacers on each side, or 20mm of spacers total on each side. As I upgraded in stages, I added 10mm, and then another 10mm spacer. The install is pretty easy.

I have one spacer above the spring isolator (between chassis and spring isolator), one below (between isolator and spring). If you're not sure, I'd say start with a 15mm trim packer and adjust from there.



View attachment 2449379

View attachment 2449377

Question for you about putting the spacer on top of the bump stop. Does that cup the bump stop goes into still have enough bite? I put both my 20mm worth of spacers between the spring and bump stop because I wasn't sure if it'd push the bump stop down to far to not seat properly.

 

[TLC2013]

UPDATE:

Thanks to @Fisher23 for the Trim packers. I used two OME 10mm packers on the rear driver side which was initially 1.5” lower then rear the passenger side.
My lean was subsequently reduced from about 1.5” to roughly 1” lower on the rear driver side. Interestingly adding 20mm of Trim packers to the low driver side in turn raised the rear passenger side by 1/4” and got the fronts within 1/3”.
The lean is still noticeable but much improved.
No change in driving characteristics after adding the two 10mm packers.

Down the worm hole of KDSS and suspension lean I go.... I also have a second set of rear springs. Going to play around these new Tough Dog springs and trim packers to see if having equal length springs or Some combination of packers and springs will level things out.

 

[TLC2013]

@bloc @aflamm and @TeCKis300 thanks for your wisdom and advise on this subject.
@linuxgod I read through a lot of your posts about the TD Lift, can’t remember if you listed your measurements? Would you mind measuring the ground to fender Height of your set up? Looks like you have slightly larger tires and running the same tough dog set up as me.

Here is an update after installing equal length rear springs. I chose to swap out the driver side so I am now running the two longer Tough Dog springs marked R/H (passenger). Lean is much improved, but still there.
After opening the KDSS valves for 20 min and articulating the suspension at each corner the lean had been reduced to less then 1/2" low on the rear driver side. Drove around at low speeds with the valves open and then closed them back up.
Within 1 hour of it parked on my nearly flat driveway the lean increased to about 3/4" -7/8" (low driver rear) and looks to have now settled in at this measurement.

I have 20mm of trim packers and the two shorter (driver side) springs to play around with but I may just leave it alone at this point. the front driver and passenger side are pretty much equal at around 1/8" difference. What is bugging me is The difference between the front and rear passenger side, Too much rake?

Another option could be to install both the shorter springs marked Driver side and use packers to level things out at the rear. Don't really like this option. Planning on keeping the equal length longer springs on for now. So far it drives normally with no ill effects to report.

Below are my mearements from ground to fender during this experiment:

Tires LT275/70R18 Kenda Klever RT (have front and rear bumpers and winch)

Tough Dog 45mm lift
FD: 37 1/4
FP: 37 7/8

RD: 38"
RP: 39 1/3


With 20MM of packers added to the lower driver side:
FD: 37 1/2
FP: 37 3/4

RD: 38 1/2
RP: 39 1/2


With equal length rear springs:
FD: 37 1/2
FP: 37 3/8

RD: 38 3/4
RP: 39 5/8

 

[linuxgod]

@bloc @aflamm and @TeCKis300 thanks for your wisdom and advise on this subject.
@linuxgod I read through a lot of your posts about the TD Lift, can’t remember if you listed your measurements? Would you mind measuring the ground to fender Height of your set up? Looks like you have slightly larger tires and running the same tough dog set up as me.

Here is an update after installing equal length rear springs. I chose to swap out the driver side so I am now running the two longer Tough Dog springs marked R/H (passenger). Lean is much improved, but still there.
After opening the KDSS valves for 20 min and articulating the suspension at each corner the lean had been reduced to less then 1/2" low on the rear driver side. Drove around at low speeds with the valves open and then closed them back up.
Within 1 hour of it parked on my nearly flat driveway the lean increased to about 3/4" -7/8" (low driver rear) and looks to have now settled in at this measurement.

I have 20mm of trim packers and the two shorter (driver side) springs to play around with but I may just leave it alone at this point. the front driver and passenger side are pretty much equal at around 1/8" difference. What is bugging me is The difference between the front and rear passenger side, Too much rake?

Another option could be to install both the shorter springs marked Driver side and use packers to level things out at the rear. Don't really like this option. Planning on keeping the equal length longer springs on for now. So far it drives normally with no ill effects to report.

Below are my mearements from ground to fender during this experiment:

Tires LT275/70R18 Kenda Klever RT (have front and rear bumpers and winch)

Tough Dog 45mm lift
FD: 37 1/4
FP: 37 7/8

RD: 38"
RP: 39 1/3


With 20MM of packers added to the lower driver side:
FD: 37 1/2
FP: 37 3/4

RD: 38 1/2
RP: 39 1/2


With equal length rear springs:
FD: 37 1/2
FP: 37 3/8

RD: 38 3/4
RP: 39 5/8

First I'll try to answer your question here, and then I have comments at the bottom:

As of Sept 2017 apparently this was my measurement from center of hub to fender, so between 1/2" and 1" of rake:

FL: 22 7/8"
FR: 22 3/8"
RL: 23 3/8"
RR: 23 3/8"

(from 34's on stock setup - it's done, now some advice...)

I can re-measure if you'd like though mine has settled a little bit with added weight and about 40k miles on the setup now. That said I'm measuring approx. center of hub, not from the ground... the problem with measuring to the ground is that your tire size, pressure, and wear will affect the measured height... but if you go from the center of the hub none of those things matter

FYI I did some rear-only measurements last summer (2019) as I was hitching up to tow, which are more similar to your measurement as they are fender-to-ground. I did it this way because I was measuring total impact on vehicle ride height and in this case I wanted to account for "tire squish"

- my standard Tough Dog setup, 240# rear coils, airbags at 5psi, trailer not attached: 38” front, 38.5” rear
- with rear airbags inflated to 30psi but trailer unhitched: 38” front, 39” rear
- hitched trailer, but weight distribution not yet on: 38 5/8” front, 37.5” rear
- hitched trailer, WD attached and on the 11th link of my BlueOx hitch (highest it goes): 38 1/4” front, 38” rear

(from Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser)

Comments:

• 15mm/1/2" of left-to-right lean is considered within spec according to the Toyota FSM.
• A full vs empty gas tank, number of passengers and weights, etc will affect the above slightly.
• Your springs will settle over time as they break in a bit. Not tremendously mind you, but enough that you may find if you are set up perfectly today that in 5k miles you may still be off slightly.
• Does your rear bumper have a tire hanging off? Your lean may be exacerbated by weight and placement off your rear. Aside from the gas tank being on the PS the spare tire is not perfectly centered either. Stuff hanging off your bumper has more of an impact on height than the same amount of weight further inboard. Physics, it's the law.
• You may also find after tweaking with trim packers that even though your rig looks level when parked once you put your butt in the seat you're actually driving it with a slight lean to the DS that you never see.
• With equal length springs you've got a lot of rake. You may want to install the Toyota 10mm front coil spacers as well

I've found my DS rear is still slightly higher than my PS rear. No idea why. The longer spring is on my PS (gas tank side). I've tried to compensate a bit by putting my heavy (75#?) tool bag in the trunk on the driver's side for instance but it makes no difference.

 

[TLC2013]

First I'll try to answer your question here, and then I have comments at the bottom:

As of Sept 2017 apparently this was my measurement from center of hub to fender, so between 1/2" and 1" of rake:

FL: 22 7/8"
FR: 22 3/8"
RL: 23 3/8"
RR: 23 3/8"

(from 34's on stock setup - it's done, now some advice...)

I can re-measure if you'd like though mine has settled a little bit with added weight and about 40k miles on the setup now. That said I'm measuring approx. center of hub, not from the ground... the problem with measuring to the ground is that your tire size, pressure, and wear will affect the measured height... but if you go from the center of the hub none of those things matter

FYI I did some rear-only measurements last summer (2019) as I was hitching up to tow, which are more similar to your measurement as they are fender-to-ground. I did it this way because I was measuring total impact on vehicle ride height and in this case I wanted to account for "tire squish"

- my standard Tough Dog setup, 240# rear coils, airbags at 5psi, trailer not attached: 38” front, 38.5” rear
- with rear airbags inflated to 30psi but trailer unhitched: 38” front, 39” rear
- hitched trailer, but weight distribution not yet on: 38 5/8” front, 37.5” rear
- hitched trailer, WD attached and on the 11th link of my BlueOx hitch (highest it goes): 38 1/4” front, 38” rear

(from Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser)

Comments:

• 15mm/1/2" of left-to-right lean is considered within spec according to the Toyota FSM.
• A full vs empty gas tank, number of passengers and weights, etc will affect the above slightly.
• Your springs will settle over time as they break in a bit. Not tremendously mind you, but enough that you may find if you are set up perfectly today that in 5k miles you may still be off slightly.
• Does your rear bumper have a tire hanging off? Your lean may be exacerbated by weight and placement off your rear. Aside from the gas tank being on the PS the spare tire is not perfectly centered either. Stuff hanging off your bumper has more of an impact on height than the same amount of weight further inboard. Physics, it's the law.
• You may also find after tweaking with trim packers that even though your rig looks level when parked once you put your butt in the seat you're actually driving it with a slight lean to the DS that you never see.
• With equal length springs you've got a lot of rake. You may want to install the Toyota 10mm front coil spacers as well

I've found my DS rear is still slightly higher than my PS rear. No idea why. The longer spring is on my PS (gas tank side). I've tried to compensate a bit by putting my heavy (75#?) tool bag in the trunk on the driver's side for instance but it makes no difference.

Thanks for the info and details. No need to remeasure, Appreciate the time you put into your response. It’s fascinating to read about these left to right and right to left leans. No rhyme or reason.

I don’t have a rear tire swing out. It’s still mounted underneath.

My springs have around 8,500 miles on them with some good miles of off roading to stretch them out.

I compared my hub to fender measurements to what you have and they are within 1/3” for the fronts but my rears are Way off, especially on the passenger side which is around 1 5/8” higher then your measurements....yikes. This is far too much rake.

I am going to install the springs marked Driver on both sides and see if these shorter springs reduce the rake and help level things out. I have two 10mm packers to add even more variables to the equation

 

[Bunga]

Looking for 15mm packers for the rear, any recommendations for something decent? OME seems to have them up to 10mm. Slee says that theirs only fit up to 2007 cruisers. Thanks!

 

[Nola622]

Looking for 15mm packers for the rear, any recommendations for something decent? OME seems to have them up to 10mm. Sless says that theirs only fit up to 2007 cruisers. Thanks!

Rear Polyurethane Coil Spacer | 15mm for Lexus LX450 (1995-1997)

Produced from high density injection moulded polyurethane, allow fine tuning or larger adjustment of vehicle ride height, most commonly used to trim level after heavy accessories have been fitted. Notes: Sold individually Height 0.6" (15mm)

ironman4x4america.com

These should work (I have ordered and will find out in a week or so). Slee's probably would work as well. Even the OME spacers are meant for 80 series.

(stacking the thin ones - 5, 10mm yellow OME - can be a pain. I guess I should have tried double stick tape but I didn't have any handy at the time. One of the spacers shifted and got itself between the first two winds of the coil instead of on top.)

 

[TLC2013]

Rear Polyurethane Coil Spacer | 15mm for Lexus LX450 (1995-1997)

Produced from high density injection moulded polyurethane, allow fine tuning or larger adjustment of vehicle ride height, most commonly used to trim level after heavy accessories have been fitted. Notes: Sold individually Height 0.6" (15mm)

ironman4x4america.com

These should work (I have ordered and will find out in a week or so). Slee's probably would work as well. Even the OME spacers are meant for 80 series.

(stacking the thin ones - 5, 10mm yellow OME - can be a pain. I guess I should have tried double stick tape but I didn't have any handy at the time. One of the spacers shifted and got itself between the first two winds of the coil instead of on top.)

heads up on that Ironman spacer, it will not sit flush on the bump stop. The inside diameter is a fraction too small. I butchered mine trying to make it fit. You will have to remove some of the material on the inside in order to get it seated. i decided to try out doubling up OME spacers which worked well.

 

[Nola622]

Thanks for the heads up - disregard my earlier recommendation.

 

[linuxgod]

Thanks for the info and details. No need to remeasure, Appreciate the time you put into your response. It’s fascinating to read about these left to right and right to left leans. No rhyme or reason.

I don’t have a rear tire swing out. It’s still mounted underneath.

My springs have around 8,500 miles on them with some good miles of off roading to stretch them out.

I compared my hub to fender measurements to what you have and they are within 1/3” for the fronts but my rears are Way off, especially on the passenger side which is around 1 5/8” higher then your measurements....yikes. This is far too much rake.

I am going to install the springs marked Driver on both sides and see if these shorter springs reduce the rake and help level things out. I have two 10mm packers to add even more variables to the equation

Side question - do you have a trick to getting the rear springs in and out easily? I found even at full droop with the KDSS open and the shocks off that the driver's side would come out easily but the passenger's side was a real bear.

 

[Nola622]

Would love to hear a recommendation on getting the difficult side out easier as well! It only gets tougher with spacers in there. So far, my only solution has been the services of a second person of sufficient weight to step onto the wheel studs to push down. My wife is not heavy enough (thankfully I guess?) so there is not always someone available

 

[TLC2013]

Side question - do you have a trick to getting the rear springs in and out easily? I found even at full droop with the KDSS open and the shocks off that the driver's side would come out easily but the passenger's side was a real bear.

I have only messed with the driver side which was easy with the spring basically falling out at full droop. Hopefully someone with real world experience will chime in with some good tips.

Thinking creatively, maybe even dangerously lol, I may try using the bottle jack between the rear axle and the frame? Not sure if this will work out but if i can get it positioned just right it should allow enough clearance for the passenger spring to drop out.
i have used the bottle jack for another project in a similar fashion with success.

 

[TimCFJ40]

Side question - do you have a trick to getting the rear springs in and out easily? I found even at full droop with the KDSS open and the shocks off that the driver's side would come out easily but the passenger's side was a real bear.

When I replaced mine I jacked the rear up, supported the frame on my tall heavy duty jack stands, removed the rear wheels, , disconnected the rear shocks, opened KDSS valves, and disconnected the swaybars from the axle (2 bolts per side). Just like you, the drivers side fell out and the passenger side was a little tougher. I used a 4' piece of 2x4 like a big lever to push the down axle away from the body, then rotated the bottom of the spring so the free end was up out of the pocket a little bit, and the springs came out much easier. I might have used another bar/2x4 to pry the spring rearward a little as well to get it out of the lower spring bucket. YMMV.

 

[TLC2013]

When I replaced mine I jacked the rear up, supported the frame on my tall heavy duty jack stands, removed the rear wheels, , disconnected the rear shocks, opened KDSS valves, and disconnected the swaybars from the axle (2 bolts per side). Just like you, the drivers side fell out and the passenger side was a little tougher. I used a 4' piece of 2x4 like a big lever to push the down axle away from the body, then rotated the bottom of the spring so the free end was up out of the pocket a little bit, and the springs came out much easier. I might have used another bar/2x4 to pry the spring rearward a little as well to get it out of the lower spring bucket. YMMV.

Thanks for the tips. Curious to know if there was any tension on the sway bars when you disconnected both sides, any issues/trouble reinstalling and bolting it back up?

 

[TimCFJ40]

Thanks for the tips. Curious to know if there was any tension on the sway bars when you disconnected both sides, any issues/trouble reinstalling and bolting it back up?

I wouldn't say there was tension in the sway bars, but I did end up jacking the axle up and down a bit on either side to get things to line up. I'm pretty experienced with suspension work, but have never done rear springs on a 200 and it took me just over an hour to remove the old springs and replace the new ones.

 

[afgman786]

Side question - do you have a trick to getting the rear springs in and out easily? I found even at full droop with the KDSS open and the shocks off that the driver's side would come out easily but the passenger's side was a real bear.

Would love to hear a recommendation on getting the difficult side out easier as well! It only gets tougher with spacers in there. So far, my only solution has been the services of a second person of sufficient weight to step onto the wheel studs to push down. My wife is not heavy enough (thankfully I guess?) so there is not always someone available

When I did spacers in the rear recently, I removed the nut holding the sway bar to the frame on passenger side. It was easy to use a pry bar to leverage it back into place to thread the nut back on. I did have a 2nd set of hands to pry up while I worked on lining the sway bar up and threading the nut on.

 

[linuxgod]

When I did spacers in the rear recently, I removed the nut holding the sway bar to the frame on passenger side. It was easy to use a pry bar to leverage it back into place to thread the nut back on. I did have a 2nd set of hands to pry up while I worked on lining the sway bar up and threading the nut on.

I tried disconnecting the sway bar on the PS but IIRC the bolt has to be slid towards the center of the vehicle and the gas tank or skid or something was in the way, making it tremendously difficult. It's been a couple years so I'm going from memory here.

Anyone take the panhard rod (track bar) off? Someone suggested that to me previously though I haven't tried to dismantle the rear since.

Spring compressors help if you're doing it alone, but I feel like if I have to use one I'm doing something wrong since nobody else ever mentions them. Also at least the cheap one I have can scratch some paint off the springs (saying this not for suspension beauty but because I presume it may increase the likelihood of rust).