34's on stock setup - it's done, now some advice...

[mcgaskins]

FWIW me and a buddy both swapped our rear springs this weekend and we put the slightly taller ones on the passenger side (labeled A in OME speak) and both sit level. We didn't do anything with the KDSS system though just simply pulled the lower shock bolt and used jacks/jack stands to pull them out.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Thanks. As I mentioned my truck did lean about 1/2" to the right (measured in the rear) before the lift. So 3/4" right now isn't a total surprise. Actually what did surprise me is that the taller factory spring was on the right side!

I've tried to level the KDSS system but whenever I set the vehicle down it seems to return to the original level. I may try to "over" jack the left side by a couple inches as Willy Beamin' did in the hopes that it will partially adjust but not completely.

My driveway is not 100% level either - the brick pavers have settled a bit over time where the truck is parked and the truck did look level when parked in my driveway, so I wonder if it's automatically "leveling" itself over time since it spends 80% of its life parked there. Interesting that TD says they've seen that before. Maybe its time for me to pull some bricks, re-sand, and re-pack it.

Not hard to believe at all.

Settling is simple physics at work like I said before. I have 2-D90 and 1-D110 Rovers in my warehouse and the floor is sloped slightly. They've been in there for 5 or so years. All three lean now, the springs are shot from just sitting there.

J

 

[mark71]

Not hard to believe at all.

Settling is simple physics at work like I said before. I have 2-D90 and 1-D110 Rovers in my warehouse and the floor is sloped slightly. They've been in there for 5 or so years. All three lean now, the springs are shot from just sitting there.

J

Turn them around and wait 5 years to go level again?

 

[linuxgod]

FWIW me and a buddy both swapped our rear springs this weekend and we put the slightly taller ones on the passenger side (labeled A in OME speak) and both sit level. We didn't do anything with the KDSS system though just simply pulled the lower shock bolt and used jacks/jack stands to pull them out.

The DS pretty much falls out, but the PS was super tight and required a prying bar against the axle to get the spring out. I've done it twice - once to put the helper air bags in and now this time to do the TD springs and both times the PS was tight even with the KDSS bar unbolted.

 

[linuxgod]

I should probably change the subject of this thread to "34s on (no longer) stock suspension"

 

[linuxgod]

I swapped the rear springs from left-to-right (and vice-versa) this weekend on my 2013. Man the passenger side is always a bitch to get in and out. Even with leverage and disconnecting the KDSS bar I still had to use a spring compressor on that side. The driver's side just falls out

Despite what Tough Dog put on the label about putting the taller spring marked "RH" on the driver's side for US models, they are wrong. I moved the taller spring to the RH (passenger's) side, which is where the taller factory spring was, and the truck sits level within 1/4" left-to-right now.

FWIW TonyP mentioned he just installed LH and RH as marked and he's level on his 2013, and one other guy I think in the "Torque Steer" thread said on his earlier model (2008-2011) truck he did the same and his is level as well. So at least on the 200s, I think people should ignore the label that TD adds to put the taller spring on the PS, or at least to check which one is taller when they remove the OEM ones and to replace like-for-like.

My alignment is way the f*** off now, so I'm in to the shop on Wednesday to get it corrected. Negative camber on the left, lots of toe out on the right. Makes the steering feel "light". Even still, the steering wheel is straight and I'm not noticing any pull to the right (presumably torque steer from the lean) anymore. Very happy, despite losing 4 hours of my 3 day weekend to screw with it.

 

[SWUtah]

As stated in the other thread:

I know my position on this is an unpopular one in this community, but it just seems to me that you are buying yourself a whole lot of bother with the LT285/75-17 tires for an additional one half inch of ground clearance over the LT285/70-17 tires which we know fit and function with absolutely no problems under all conditions - on road and off road. I think you'd be much better off using the Toyota recommended LT285/70-17 tires. There will be plenty of time in the future - after your proposed mods - to install a larger tire ... if you feel the trade-offs are worth it at that time.

HTH

I've stated before that my first addition to my LX 570 is going to be a set of BFG ATKO2's and I looked at sizes from 275 6020 to 285 5520. Seems like the Lexus alternative to the stock size of 285 5020 is the recommended size of 275 5520 brings with it no problems at all, just lose about a half an inch of lift. 32" vs 33"

 

[linuxgod]

Though I'd add this for posterity. Measured from the center of the hub 90 degrees vertical up to the bottom of the fender.

Before the L<->R spring swap

FL: 23 1/8"
FR: 21 7/8"
RL: 24 1/4"
RR: 23 1/8"

So that was 1 1/4" difference in the front and 7/8" in the rear, plus a 7/8" to 1 1/4" rake.

After the L<->R spring swap in the rear and an alignment today:

FL: 22 7/8"
FR: 22 3/8"
RL: 23 3/8"
RR: 23 3/8"

So now it's a 1/2" difference in the front, and dead-on equal in the rear, plus a 1/2" to 1" rake, which is perfect for me when towing. (Note: I should probably measure ground-to-slider height at the front and back of the rocker panel to confirm that the "rake" isn't really a difference in fender height). I do wish my front right was a bit taller, but Toyota says within 15mm is in spec, and 1/2" is 13mm, so its hard to complain there. I'll blame the weight of the snorkel for the difference Plus my driveway isn't 100% level, so that might have a small impact on the measurements as well.

 

[ckkone]

Im about to install my Tough Dog lift here are my before measurements:

Front Passenger 29 1/2”
Rear passenger 30 3/4”
Front driver 29”
Rear driver 30 1/8”

My truck is about 1/2” taller on the passenger side so I plan on putting the taller spring on the driver side. Hope it works out, don’t want to have to swap them.

 

[linuxgod]

Im about to install my Tough Dog lift here are my before measurements:

Front Passenger 29 1/2”
Rear passenger 30 3/4”
Front driver 29”
Rear driver 30 1/8”

My truck is about 1/2” taller on the passenger side so I plan on putting the taller spring on the driver side. Hope it works out, don’t want to have to swap them.

@ckkone, what year is your cruiser and how many miles on it?

 

[Atwalz]

Im about to install my Tough Dog lift here are my before measurements:

Front Passenger 29 1/2”
Rear passenger 30 3/4”
Front driver 29”
Rear driver 30 1/8”

My truck is about 1/2” taller on the passenger side so I plan on putting the taller spring on the driver side. Hope it works out, don’t want to have to swap them.

Taller spring goes on passenger side for US rigs. You may have a kdss lean.

 

[ckkone]

Taller spring goes on passenger side for US rigs. You may have a kdss lean.

Yeah, could be. After the install and doing the block of wood under tire KDSS correciton I'm now 1/2" taller on driver side. Not sure if I want to swap springs or add a trim spacer. Going to drive it for a little bit before I do anything.

 

[linuxgod]

FYI +/-15mm (5/8") of lean is within Toyota spec. If you're that close I wouldn't worry too much, particularly if you don't experience any torque steer when you get on/off the throttle. In any case let them settle for a few hundred miles before you make any decisions.

If you decide want to get it dead-on use a trim spacer. I was ~1.25" different left-to-right, and when I swapped them it's now perfect. If you're only 1/2" off and you swap them, I suspect you'll lean 1/2" in the other direction.

 

[Atwalz]

Yeah, could be. After the install and doing the block of wood under tire KDSS correciton I'm now 1/2" taller on driver side. Not sure if I want to swap springs or add a trim spacer. Going to drive it for a little bit before I do anything.

Are you running adjustable panhard bar? If not, that would be a good addition to relax the spring pre-load to balance the L-R lean and center the axle.

 

[ckkone]

If you're only 1/2" off and you swap them, I suspect you'll lean 1/2" in the other direction.

That is what I was thinking. When I took out the OEM springs the taller one was on the passenger side and my driver side was a 1/2" low. I couldn't fathom how putting the taller spring back on the passenger side would somehow level it out. Unless like Atwalz said mybe I had KDSS lean before I even started.

Are you running adjustable pandhard bar? If not, that would be a good addition to relax the spring pre-load to balance the L-R lean.

No, I don't have an adjustable panhard bar. If someone can confirm they got 1/2" of height on the passenger side by adding it, then maybe I will get one. Otherwise for the type of build I'm doing I don't think its necessary. A 10mm coil spacer is only like $12 and should get me real close.

LOL, I guess I should have just started my own thread...

 

[Atwalz]

That is what I was thinking. When I took out the OEM springs the taller one was on the passenger side and my driver side was a 1/2" low. I couldn't fathom how putting the taller spring back on the passenger side would somehow level it out. Unless like Atwalz said mybe I had KDSS lean before I even started.



No, I don't have an adjustable panhard bar. If someone can confirm they got 1/2" of height on the passenger side by adding it, then maybe I will get one. Otherwise for the type of build I'm doing I don't think its necessary.

I am running OME 2723 springs in back. They are rated for 340lb/in. I got about 3" of lift and went with tough dog adjustable pan hard bar. Our rig is leveled L-R. I just opened the KDSS valve three turns and let is sit for 20 mins to balance and closed valves. I am also running metal tech adjustable control arms.

 

[ckkone]

Yeah I might mess around with the KDSS some more and use a taller block and let it sit for a while, I'm really not that bothered with it just thought it was interesting since most people were lower on the driver side to start.

 

[linuxgod]

@ckkone, forgot to say... pics or it didn't happen!



BTW I'm curious, did you have to struggle to get the rear end back together? Each time I've taken it apart I've unbolted the shocks, unbolted the sway bar from the axle, unbolted the diff breather, and removed the bolt for the brake line bracket, and the DS spring literally falls out (even with the sway bar still attached), but the PS spring still requires a prying bar and some muscle. The last time I did it I probably spent 2 hours wrestling the sway bar back into position so I could bolt it back up.

 

[ckkone]

Here is what I do to uninstall:

-Unbolt bottom shock bolt and slide shock off bottom mount
-Unbolt the sway bar end link on passenger side
-Unbolt diff breather
-Unbolt panhard bar on passenger side

Like you the DS spring comes out very easy, usually for the passenger side I get a second had and have someone stand on the brake drum while I muscle the spring out. Also to get the sway bar end link back in I use a second jack to get it into place.

I sent a message to reevesci and and he said "The springs are labeled LH and RH and that is where they should be installed. The taller spring to the DS is NOT the correct placement."

I guess I could swap them and see what happens.

 

[linuxgod]

To be fair, Tough Dog does say to put the taller spring on the DS. reevesci is probably telling you not to do that because of my experience, and because TonyP and someone else (sorry I can't recall who it was offhand) installed LH and RH as marked and were both dead on. I agree that most people should put the taller spring on the PS, like Toyota did, but I would let yours settle for 500-1000 miles and see if it stays within 1/2" or if the difference gets better or worse, then decide. If it's only 1/2", I do think trim packers are a better solution, since unless you have a lot of weight in the rear swapping will likely result in a slight lean the other way.

I've not removed the panhard bar. Maybe I'll try that next time, if I ever need to take it apart again. I unbolted the sway bar from the axle, not from the end link, FWIW. Even with the sway bar completely detached from the axle it still requires more muscle on the PS side than I feel it should. It's really a 2 man job in my experience, though I can confirm it's technically possible to do it by yourself...