Builds Trail Tailor- Custom Armor Build plus a few things (1 Viewer)

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Beautiful. I'll take one in black

I just got my table back online early this afternoon. I need to design the brackets from the winch mount to the bumper cover. These are bolted to the aluminum crash bar on the stock set up and are deleted with this mod and need to be added back to the design to support the cover. I should have these finished up tomorrow.

J

 

[TonyP]

How about rear LCAs?
Let me know if you need measurements.
Turns out I might need new ones...

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

How about rear LCAs?
Let me know if you need measurements.
Turns out I might need new ones...

T,

I have those in stock. 1.75" x .250" DOM

J

 

[linuxgod]

How about rear LCAs?
Let me know if you need measurements.
Turns out I might need new ones...

Did that bend the mounting bracket on the rear diff?

 

[TonyP]

T,

I have those in stock. 1.75" x .250" DOM

J

Word. Shoot me a price.

Did that bend the mounting bracket on the rear diff?

No, they're angled like that.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

200 Gen 2 Front getting started today. This one will be tighter to the grill then the Gen 1 model. I'll get to the wings tomorrow morning.


Jason

 

[linuxgod]

For those of you with TT bumpers, I have a few winch questions:

1. Do most of you leave the control pack in the bumper or mount it in the engine bay? It looks like the winch is less accessible than the ARB bumper
2. Do you guys wire the winch through a relay so you can start/cut power from inside the vehicle? Or do you just rely on the switch on the unit?
3. From the Warn online instructions it doesn't seem like the wiring comes with a fusible link. Given that the winch sits in front and a front-end collision could end up shorting the wiring, shouldn't it be fused? If so what are the recommendations on parts/sizing?

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

3. From the Warn online instructions it doesn't seem like the wiring comes with a fusible link. Given that the winch sits in front and a front-end collision could end up shorting the wiring, shouldn't it be fused? If so what are the recommendations on parts/sizing?

I don’t have a TT bumper, but your no3 question is something I feel I can offer an opinion on.

You don’t want a fuse on a winch. Without going into some very detailed explanation of electrical wiring. The control boxes handle all the load while providing the necessary safe overload protection.

I personably had a Warn 9.5xp on the front of a Tacoma that took a 135 mph front end collision. That winch was pulled from that Tacoma and put on an FJ and handled 10 more years of heavy use. That winch now sits on the front of my 200.

Warn knows what they are doing, and if you try to put in fuses that can handle upwards of 500 amps, you’ll be adding unnecessary protections that will actually reduce reliability.

 

[TonyP]

1. Selonoid box? Behind the grill, hard mounted welded bracket.

 

[linuxgod]

@Taco2Cruiser thanks. I'm paranoid, I guess. Would you consider a battery cutoff switch, or do you just run your wiring within a wire loom to protect it?

@TonyP, yes. By "behind the grill" do you mean in front of or behind the frame (in the engine bay)? I most likely won't be able to weld a bracket but I'm sure I can fab something. The on/off/freespool switch is still on the winch body though.

 

[TonyP]

Between the grill and condenser.

You can drill a hand hole in the plastic cover over the radiator/grill in the engine. Stick your mitts in there for the free spool. Or just forget to put the clips back in and the entire panel is removable. Whatever tickles your pickle.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

@Taco2Cruiser thanks. I'm paranoid, I guess. Would you consider a battery cutoff switch, or do you just run your wiring within a wire loom to protect it?

No it’s good to take these extra steps to protect your investment and your family inside it.

Wire the positive and negative 0 gauge power leads directly to the starting battery. All wiring is already in its insulation and attached the same way as the factory wiring. Does your factory exposed leads on the battery terminals catch fire? Because they are designed that way. The control box is no different.

I would not consider a battery cutoff because what would it provide?

Let’s say you have a front end collision, and it is so bad that it damages the winch control box to cause spooling. Even under that rare worse case secenario, what’s it going to hurt? The bumper is destroyed, along with your truck. Are you going to try prying whatever hood is left open to turn a cutoff switch? The wiring will be too thick to put a cut off inside the cab reliably without major cuts in the firewall. Or are you going to get your family out of the carnage and away to safety? A spoooing winch will only destroy the mounting bracket its attached to, it won’t cause fires. I’ve seen two guys hands get sucked into a winch drum. Both were because of lack of training, not a connection becoming active.

It’s like when a guy told me I should have a lock on my onboard water tank, because if I roll the truck, I’ll get water in my cab. I responded with, “if my truck is rolled over, then my headliner is destroyed anyway... because my roof is caved in.” I think we need to think about if something does go bad, then why does it go bad, now in that situation, what now matters? That’s not to mean “oh nothing matters anymore.” It means that when bad stuff happens, priorities of work must start, and what is your priorities that will make a difference and what tasks don’t really help the situation.

The safest thing you can do with a winch is to wire it the way Warn says, and don’t mess with it! They are much smarter than all of us. Then get proper training instructions. Not trying to act big or anything, but I’ve done too many vehicle recoveries, with armored gun trucks, under gun fire, from mountains to cities. The principles are simple, but must be followed to a T.

Leave your winch control switch unplugged from you control box until your winch line is set and you are ready to pull. Don’t let other people control your winch, you control the driving of the truck and your winch. Spotters give recommendations, but drivers are always in control. When spooling the winch back in, keep your hand a full body length away from the fair lead. And take your time, don’t let bystandards comments and body language make you rush to failure.

Do that, and you’ll be safer than you’ve ever been. Because you have self recovery capabilities, and are safe to use them.

Sorry to go from wiring to training. Maybe it’s becuse this falls into what I do this for a living, but I just feel when someone asks about messing with these things, it’s important to view all aspects.

 

[linuxgod]

Thanks @Taco2Cruiser. As a novice I really appreciate the advice.

I'd thought about a battery cut-off as a secondary measure. If the cut-off is near the battery inside the engine bay, then the wires aren't live until I need to winch and I turn it on. Since they're not live I wouldn't worry about a short due to worn wire insulation or an accident unless the engine bay is severely compromised (which at that point, all bets are off). Then again, to handle the load of the VR12-S, which is 457A peak, I need a heavy duty 600A blue sea switch, which aren't cheap and with that much current flowing through any device I wonder how reliable it will be.

I wonder if the @Warn Industries rep has any input?

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Thanks @Taco2Cruiser. As a novice I really appreciate the advice.

I'd thought about a battery cut-off as a secondary measure. If the cut-off is near the battery inside the engine bay, then the wires aren't live until I need to winch and I turn it on. Since they're not live I wouldn't worry about a short due to worn wire insulation or an accident unless the engine bay is severely compromised (which at that point, all bets are off). Then again, to handle the load of the VR12-S, which is 457A peak, I need a heavy duty 600A blue sea switch, which aren't cheap and with that much current flowing through any device I wonder how reliable it will be.

I wonder if the @Warn Industries rep has any input?

Always good to ask the guys that make it for sure. They are the experts and with the reputation Warn winches have, should be followed.

I would just add that the winch controler is the switch. Without it plugged in, there is no connection to make power. So that’s your manual safety switch.

Imagine taking a light switch out of your wall, and the power leads are firmly mounted in a way that they can never touch. That’s what the winch is when the controller is not plugged in. That’s why I said to leave the controller off, until the line is pulled out of the drum and ready to pull.

 

[pdxlc200]

Winch mount (confirmed for 2016 to current)

@mcgaskins @wesel123 @fireball

200 Series Hidden Winch Mount

Jason


View attachment 1695351

Will it fit a 2017 Lexus 570?

 

[linuxgod]

Always good to ask the guys that make it for sure. They are the experts and with the reputation Warn winches have, should be followed.

I would just add that the winch controler is the switch. Without it plugged in, there is no connection to make power. So that’s your manual safety switch.

Imagine taking a light switch out of your wall, and the power leads are firmly mounted in a way that they can never touch. That’s what the winch is when the controller is not plugged in. That’s why I said to leave the controller off, until the line is pulled out of the drum and ready to pull.

If the only live wire is the positive battery to the controller, it seems like I would want to move the winch controller to the engine bay, which would reduce the likelihood of a positive-to-ground short in the event of an accident? i.e. if it's inside the engine bay then it's inside the frame and highly unlikely to be damaged except under extreme circumstances.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

If the only live wire is the positive battery to the controller, it seems like I would want to move the winch controller to the engine bay, which would reduce the likelihood of a positive-to-ground short in the event of an accident? i.e. if it's inside the engine bay then it's inside the frame and highly unlikely to be damaged except under extreme circumstances.

I think it's 6 to 1, half dozen to the other. The engine bay is not the place to be in a wreck, it will be completely destroyed as the engine bay takes the crushing load, and moves the stress around the passenger compartment to the cargo area.

Case in point.


It's bad no matter where the control box is, on the front or in the engine bay, its getting crush regardless. But that bring me back to the point of if the control box is crushed, so is the winch itself, and the bumper, and everything else. So what's it matter if the winch spools? But if you like the control box in the engine bay then put it there, no worries.

 

[linuxgod]

I think it's 6 to 1, half dozen to the other. The engine bay is not the place to be in a wreck, it will be completely destroyed as the engine bay takes the crushing load, and moves the stress around the passenger compartment to the cargo area.

It's bad no matter where the control box is, on the front or in the engine bay, its getting crush regardless. But that bring me back to the point of if the control box is crushed, so is the winch itself, and the bumper, and everything else. So what's it matter if the winch spools? But if you like the control box in the engine bay then put it there, no worries.

My thought about putting the control box in the engine bay was in a "light" crash, I just want to protect the positive lead from getting crushed or severed and shorting out and causing a fire that wouldn't have otherwise happened. Also I'm not sure how accessible it will be inside the TT bumper, so I may want it in the engine bay or behind the grill just for easy access to the connector.

The idea of a battery cutoff was that in a "major" crash I'm only dealing with 1' of battery cable that's live and might short, not that I would suddenly rush under there and turn it off. But yes there's probably enough engine damage that the battery cutoff would get crushed too.

I'm far less worried about destroying the winch than dealing with a fireworks display, FWIW. And yes to you points I'm probably overthinking all of this and can just mount it as-is (assuming it's accessible enough).

 

[mcgaskins]

@linuxgod I think you're overthinking it. Have you ever heard of what you're concerned about happening in the real world? Millions of winches have been sitting at the front of trucks for decades, and to my knowledge they've never caused a fire or fireworks from a crash. It's certainly within the realm of physical possibility, but the probably is so low it's not really worth expending energy on it. If it was a real danger, you'd see all kinds of warnings from the manufacturers and off road shops and web wheelers about it.

 

[Oakleyguy]

My thought about putting the control box in the engine bay was in a "light" crash, I just want to protect the positive lead from getting crushed or severed and shorting out and causing a fire that wouldn't have otherwise happened. Also I'm not sure how accessible it will be inside the TT bumper, so I may want it in the engine bay or behind the grill just for easy access to the connector.

The idea of a battery cutoff was that in a "major" crash I'm only dealing with 1' of battery cable that's live and might short, not that I would suddenly rush under there and turn it off. But yes there's probably enough engine damage that the battery cutoff would get crushed too.

I'm far less worried about destroying the winch than dealing with a fireworks display, FWIW. And yes to you points I'm probably overthinking all of this and can just mount it as-is (assuming it's accessible enough).

I don't see what the issue with having a high amperage breaker for the winch? Surely the winch will have a designed max amperage draw, you would size your breaker appropriately for the load.