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Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by scrowley, Feb 16, 2017.
Dumb question..but what do reduction gears do for your rig?
Not even close to the same both Franks and my windows are built and assembled in the USA and no reverse engineering at all with both one of kind different design. Although my windows cost less dont kid yourself thinking Im doing if without profit. Im feel confident saying that Frank or myself have NOT recouped the labor time we have in bringing our windows to market. A vehicle that is 20 years old is a very narrow market and Marlin, Frank, and I did with design pride for you guys knowing one would not get rich doing it.
Marlin spent the time and money to bring these to market. He does not even own a LC he did for all of us guaranteed not a high profit item with big returns especially when you consider he was reversed engineer (Im assuming here). This kind of stuff keeps people form developing these types of excellent products.
Using I have too much money in your rig is just a BS excuse past the addition cost to the next couple jobs and help feed Marlins dogs. If you do end up purchasing the Chinese gears I wish no failure but you will think about when you need to hammer on your rig in low range. By people supporting reverse engineering will result in less product availability in the future.
Rant over Im done
I would love to see what it cost marlin to have these gears cut now. Raw cost now, no R&D ect.
My guess is 300-450 / unit if ordered in bulk (say 75-100 units). Most of the cost the gear cutter is going to charge you is for the setup, so if you order just one of these from the cutter it may be 1200. But once the setup is complete and verified it's just time after that.
I'd bet that the TG gear is reverse engineered and someone bucked up big money to get a large order (2,000 perhaps?) at that quantity the unit price becomes way less, so profit remains while list price is slashed.
I'm all for supporting developers, and I do all the time. But you can't cry away if you don't remain competitive. Because instead of moving more products and only making 100 or even 200 on each unit they will move far fewer over a much longer period for 350-500 per unit. Eventually they won't even offer it because its a dead product that takes up shelf space. Then they've lost the ability to recover anything more on that product, making it a poor investment.
Further by analyzing the price point of a product over its projected lifetime you know how many you have to sell and when you have to have them sold by in order to recover your investment. If developers follow this and reduce the price over the life of the product then you would see a lot and I mean A LOT less of these reversed engineered competitors on the market.
This is basic product strategy of a 'free' market.
Now this all goes out the window for extremely low volume custom made pieces.
@LandCruiserPhil. I understand your point. But I'm guessing toyatech windows aren't even available anymore because nobody wants to spend almost a grand for one unit. Yours are the go to now because of price and same function in the end. Hence lower pricing brings in more sales. Expecially when your basically getting the same product. Same as the gear sets.
I am appreciative there are ppl. Such as yourself making products for our 80's. I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers in anyway. Just trying to find first hand experience with the TG gears. Not really why they are much cheaper.
I am sure the MC gears are made of better quality materials and have better quality control but a gear that large with such a deep mesh pattern I can't see how it could just self destruct. There's no way a DS u joint, locking hub, or pinion gear or other parts aren't going to break first before that gear set. Maybe but I can't see how.
If you need to ask consider yourself lucky because you just saved a lot of time and money.
Given the 80 series US market how many Low range gear set could one sell at $250 each considering the cost of installation runs $500 - $800. My point is this is NOT big business at any price.
Bro, why wouldn't you want the very best for your rig especially knowing the rest of the oem components are made with quality materials and quality control? I know the cost difference is very attractive, but this is a LAND CRUISER, not a mini toy etc full of cheap TG parts..To each there own, I personally would shed the extra cash on a critical component in the TC. I mean you've probably spent thousands on your rig already, what's a tad more?
My intent is not to muck up your thread so you have a PM
You took the time and effort to respond but not to answer the question?
Hey Scott if shut down mud and went to work for an hour you would not need to cry about the cost difference
Makes difficult terrain much easier on your rig, safer, and easier to negotiate.
Lmao.. your right. I'm on a break right now.
Mud drives me crazy. Ha. Much cheaper without it.
Who knows which why I'll go. There's pros and cons to both.
I've never used cheap parts on my 80. I do have a trail gear front diff cover. And Marlin sliders.
Keep the feedback coming.
I'm running them for the last 6 months. Been great, no problems at all. Trail ride in the sierras without a hiccup and wouldn't hesitate recommending anyone to purchase them. Built fairly well and it's not made out of chineesemim. I think that they are Japanese metal material made from the same factory that makes trail gear's ring and pinions.
If anyone is concerned about the gears "blowing up", I think that your u joints or even your axles would be a fuseable link to blow before your gears.
With the $500 I saved I bought me a 4x4labs front bumper.
And if everyone wanted "American made" gears, sorry to say but they are all built overseas.
@cybrstar. Thanks. Great review.
How do you know they are all made overseas? I was thinking the same with the fusible links post tcase gears.
Trail Gear 3:11 low range TC gears, $600
You can read this thread about them. It was closed for some reason, but it does tell you in some post about where they are being produced and what material is used.
There are 4 low range gears that you can buy:
Originator or low range transfer case gears-Marks from Aussie (not USA made)
Marlin- (Japanese made)
Another Japanese brand I believe that inchworm sells- Japanese made
Trail gear-made in china with japense material
I have been running the TG gears for over a year including multiple off pavement trips and abuse in Moab. Quality seemed excellent out of the box and they have been flawless. I WOULD 100% RECOMMEND to anyone.
Marlin gears are not made by Marlin and they did not design them. They are gears that are used for another Toyota application that happen also fit the 80 series and they purchase them and resell them. Perhaps that is why they have to charge so much.
That being said,
Don't turn this thread I to a Marlin debate like the last one (which got locked as a result) If you don't have the TG gears yourself, you don't have an opinion as to their quality.
I've been running these TG gears for several months. No problems so far. I'm not afraid to wheel my rig, but I'm easy on the pedal and know my limits.
By their claims the steel is Japanese. The cut is out of China.
I thought hard about going with Marlin, but in the end decided to go with TG. Mainly because of cost, and now that I've had them a while I'm glad I did. The amount of reduction is not really all that much. Especially if you've ever wheeled a dual case setup.
I also buy Great Value brand at Walmart...
exactly, marlin did not create these gears, I believe they were first made in australia from marks 4 wheel drive, might be wrong about that though, either way nobody cans marlin for reverse engineering mark's gears? buy what you want but don't believe all the hype here on mud about chineesium yada yada, it's all talk and opinions, there is not proof whatsoever that they are made in an inferior process or material.
With this statement you just answered your own question. Buy the TG set.
I wouldn't have brought you into this thread had I known it was going to turn into a pissing match.
FWIW I'll run the TG set as well when the time comes. I'm running a TG chromo 23 spline input gear in my dual case setup and no issues....even though it only has about 30 minutes of wheeling time on it
No pissing match here. Some good feedback already from some guys running them. Everyone's going to have an opinion. Can't take them to heart.