g-man
SILVER Star
You can also turn the cover (1) screw from the timing mark near the starter and see if you can see the flywheel turning
Tragedy on Cross Country Trip Home (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter pumbaatx
- Start date
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I had something similar happen on my 62 a while back. I’m not sure if the 2F block has one, but I blew the heater coil out of the side of my engine block at higher revs going up a pass here in CO one fine morning. Same thing you describe here with the huge cloud of white smoke. Just a guess.
Shoot a video from the front of the engine to see if the belts are turning when you are using the starter to turn the engine over.
If the belts are turning, leave the wires attached, but take the cap off the distributor and shoot a video of that area - again using the starter to see if the rotor is turning.
If both videos show rotation, that’s a great first step and potentially knocks some bad stuff off your list.
out of interest- does the key/ignition switch stick at all in the start position -as i when you turn the key to start does it spring back to the run position or do you need to help it a bit?
If the belts are turning, leave the wires attached, but take the cap off the distributor and shoot a video of that area - again using the starter to see if the rotor is turning.
If both videos show rotation, that’s a great first step and potentially knocks some bad stuff off your list.
out of interest- does the key/ignition switch stick at all in the start position -as i when you turn the key to start does it spring back to the run position or do you need to help it a bit?
That starter isn't engaging s***e. That thing is just happily spinning away and the flywheel isn't moving at all.
Get someone to watch the belts and pulleys as you turn the ignition over. They aren't moving but at least you will have another opinion. You need to try and spin the engine over by hand.
What if this
At the very least the starter is not spinning that flywheel like it should. Boy it's trying though. The starter doesn't work but it still has juice. Something is jammed up in there.
Get someone to watch the belts and pulleys as you turn the ignition over. They aren't moving but at least you will have another opinion. You need to try and spin the engine over by hand.
What if this
turns out to be the problem.
At the very least the starter is not spinning that flywheel like it should. Boy it's trying though. The starter doesn't work but it still has juice. Something is jammed up in there.
- Thread starter
- #66
Requested video of the belts at the crank
Ok, I was able to complete a cold-dry compression test, and the results, to me at least, are odd. After referring to the FSM and reading around a bit, I went to the truck, which already had spark plugs removed from the other day, and disconnected the fuel hose from the pump. I then attached the pressure gauge to the first spark plug outlet at the front of the truck. I verified that the battery was showing 12 volts of charge. With the gas pedal depressed to open the throttle, I let the engine turn what sounded like 6 times. I went back to the engine bay, recorded the gauge reading, and moved to the next outlet towards the firewall. Due to some weird readings, I went through the process twice. There were a few times during this process that coolant shot out of the spark plug holes, though I was not videoing, so I don't know which ones, if not all, shot coolant.
Here are the readings:
Ok, I was able to complete a cold-dry compression test, and the results, to me at least, are odd. After referring to the FSM and reading around a bit, I went to the truck, which already had spark plugs removed from the other day, and disconnected the fuel hose from the pump. I then attached the pressure gauge to the first spark plug outlet at the front of the truck. I verified that the battery was showing 12 volts of charge. With the gas pedal depressed to open the throttle, I let the engine turn what sounded like 6 times. I went back to the engine bay, recorded the gauge reading, and moved to the next outlet towards the firewall. Due to some weird readings, I went through the process twice. There were a few times during this process that coolant shot out of the spark plug holes, though I was not videoing, so I don't know which ones, if not all, shot coolant.
Here are the readings:
| Test 1 | Test 2 | |
| Cylinder 1 | 267 lbs | 295 lbs |
| Cylinder 2 | 122 lbs | 157 lbs |
| Cylinder 3 | 176 lbs | 177 lbs |
| Cylinder 4 | 130 lbs | 95 lbs |
| Cylinder 5 | 180 lbs | 178 lbs |
| Cylinder 6 | 187 lbs | 185 lbs |
FishTacos
Full Globetard
Sounds like a blown head gasket is likely.
EXCELLENT Diagnosis & by the FSM BOOK TECH. work Tommy !
you did well sir . Good SHOW .......
ok ,
to basic summarize the above test spec. DATA results Tommy has
written Recorded , and very WISELY , if i may made a second full spread of
compression test steps outlined in the FSM step by step ,to double Verify
in my opinion :
Cylinder # 1 is our Offender !
why: because water unlike oil does not Compress under Pressure ,
hence the over the top and way way outside the FSM spec's compression
box readings of cylinder #1
- now , why are test #2 results all Higher PSI ...........?
because after the first set or round of tests , both OIL, Fuel and coolant in
cylinder #1 ,'s case have entered the cylinders from both above and below
the piston rings and coated the cylinder walls and rings , Hence we now
have a FULL WET TEST & the subsequent test spec. data recorded hand
written Results one would and should expect .....................
when a wet test occurs the oil, fuel , and possible coolant form a nice nice
AIR proof seal and fill all the Micro- scoring on both the Rings , pistons ,
and more importantly the cylinder walls them selves ...........
I My opinion , the reason Cylinder #1 has failed Coolant wise , is due to its closer then the rest proximity to the thermostat housing and the radical change's in Temperature that occur normally when the t-stat opens and closes as it should ,
Tommy has already indicated the temp gauge in dash was normal , so we can rule out a stuck closed thermostat
i will also make it very clear : I would NOT jump to conclude this is a simple
blown head gasket , till a more detailed and comprehensive diagnosis
is preformed ..........
the amount of coolant needed to splash out the spark plug hole like tommy
describes suggests a outside the box cause , still unknown to us at this time
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
personal note:
adding additional random speculation about this possible cause and results
to Tommy's Precious to me anyway 1987 2F engine , will only be and
create a UN-needed distraction for Tommy's path Forward
, regarding the FSM Step by Step diagnosis instructions ...........
fyi : and thats NOT fair ! ( IMO ) ......
i am personally Rooting for Tommy and his :
1987 2F Engine / FJ60LG-KA USA-SPEC.
matt .....
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #69
EXCELLENT Diagnosis & by the FSM BOOK TECH. work Tommy !
you did well sir . Good SHOW .......
ok ,
to basic summarize the above test spec. DATA results Tommy has
written Recorded , and very WISELY , if i may made a second full spread of
compression test steps outlined in the FSM step by step ,to double Verify
in my opinion :
Cylinder # 1 is our Offender !
why: because water unlike oil does not Compress under Pressure ,
hence the over the top and way way outside the FSM spec's compression
box readings of cylinder #1
- now , why are test #2 results all Higher PSI ...........?
because after the first set or round of tests , both OIL, Fuel and coolant in
cylinder #1 ,'s case have entered the cylinders from both above and below
the piston rings and coated the cylinder walls and rings , Hence we now
have a FULL WET TEST & the subsequent test spec. data recorded hand
written Results one would and should expect .....................
when a wet test occurs the oil, fuel , and possible coolant form a nice nice
AIR proof seal and fill all the Micro- scoring on both the Rings , pistons ,
and more importantly the cylinder walls them selves ...........
I My opinion , the reason Cylinder #1 has failed Coolant wise , is due to its closer then the rest proximity to the thermostat housing and the radical change's in Temperature that occur normally when the t-stat opens and closes as it should ,
Tommy has already indicated the temp gauge in dash was normal , so we can rule out a stuck closed thermostat
i will also make it very clear : I would NOT jump to conclude this is a simple
blown head gasket , till a more detailed and comprehensive diagnosis
is preformed ..........
the amount of coolant needed to splash out the spark plug hole like tommy
describes suggests a outside the box cause , still unknown to us at this time
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
personal note:
adding additional random speculation about this possible cause and results
to Tommy's Precious to me anyway 1987 2F engine , will only be and
create a UN-needed distraction for Tommy's path Forward
, regarding the FSM Step by Step diagnosis instructions ...........
fyi : and thats NOT fair ! ( IMO ) ......
i am personally Rooting for Tommy and his :
1987 2F Engine / FJ60LG-KA USA-SPEC.
View attachment 2174318
matt .....
Thanks Matt, this is incredibly helpful as far as understanding the workings of the engine and how each system works together. I really appreciate the time you take to explain your thoughts to help others learn.
Does cylinder 4 get lower compression because it is firing before cylinder 1?
So what's next? Drain the oil and pull the head?
mongoose2231
Supporting Vendor
These engines are very easy to work on, especially replacing the head gasket. you Don’t have to worry about timing or anything like that since it is a pushrod engine and the cam is down low in the block. . It’s a relatively simple to do job. Remove head, have it rebuilt by decent machine shop, get an OEM head gasket and possibly head bolts and reinstall. Keep us posted.
I did this when I first bought my truck. It’s not a bad job at all.
Get the intake and exhaust manifold planed flat while it’s off and buy a remflex gasket. You’ll save a lot of hassle later.
I used a fel pro gasket 40,000 miles ago and it’s running strong.
Get the intake and exhaust manifold planed flat while it’s off and buy a remflex gasket. You’ll save a lot of hassle later.
I used a fel pro gasket 40,000 miles ago and it’s running strong.
Your Welcome Tommy ,
- Cylinders #3 & #4 are smak-dab in the middle of the Engine Block , and
on a inline 6cyl 2F are ONLY surrounded on 2 sides by Coolant Water
Jackets , so Heat build Up and Thermal Break Down happen Faster here ,
- #1 , #2 , #5 , & #6 are closest to having 3 sides of water jackets cooling them down evenly .
- Once your head is Pulled and taken to a Well Respected Machine Shop ,
you are gonna be told that either or both #3 & #4 Exhaust Valves & seats
are Burnt and need replaced , maybe intake too as well ,,,,,,,,,,
- this is related to the above , so expect that Newz ........
- it';s no biggie in the grand scheme of things ,
- Now , on to your Parts , TOYOTA GENUINE Parts 2F Head gasket sets are
NLA / DISC. ,
- BUT , Quality Made In JAPAN ones from the OEM parts makers are !
i highly suggest you go this route , any head gasket made by
a NON-JAPAN company is simply NOT up to the Rigid TOYOTA Spec's
that have lasted the last 35+ years ..............
I am glad you can benefit from the helpful advise from others
Helping other's , as countless folks have helped me here on MUD over the
years , is why I am a MUD member !
And in my opinion is a Major fundamental reason why it remains such
a Positive & Very Special place .
FishTacos
Full Globetard
So....yeah....blown head gasket.
I love in depth analysis @ToyotaMatt. I think it's really important to think about these engines in that sort of holistic fashion.
The head will need a trip to The machine shop. If you had this problem in the middle of the Argentinean Alteplano, you could get someone to mail you a new gasket made from dried raccoon pelts, swap it out, and your engine would forgive you. If you just swap the gasket when you can give the head a spa day in Austin......well.....you will be giving the whole power plant a spa day in short order.
The head is a straightforward removal and reinstalation, as has been stated. Follow the FSM. Removing the hood helps. Mark it thoroughly so you get it lined up again if you do decide to remove it. Move the head VERY slowly. Pretend it is an 80 pound Fabrege egg.
The intake and exhaust manifold will throw some machinists for a loop. Hopefully you will have a manifold that is within FSM spec so you can just reinstall It. It is an outlier in terms of its design. Best to use the network here on Mud to find a shop that has experience with this manifold if you do need to surface it at all.
At the end of this process you will have a cooling system that is just about as good as it was when it came off the production line if this is done right. Good luck.
I love in depth analysis @ToyotaMatt. I think it's really important to think about these engines in that sort of holistic fashion.
The head will need a trip to The machine shop. If you had this problem in the middle of the Argentinean Alteplano, you could get someone to mail you a new gasket made from dried raccoon pelts, swap it out, and your engine would forgive you. If you just swap the gasket when you can give the head a spa day in Austin......well.....you will be giving the whole power plant a spa day in short order.
The head is a straightforward removal and reinstalation, as has been stated. Follow the FSM. Removing the hood helps. Mark it thoroughly so you get it lined up again if you do decide to remove it. Move the head VERY slowly. Pretend it is an 80 pound Fabrege egg.
The intake and exhaust manifold will throw some machinists for a loop. Hopefully you will have a manifold that is within FSM spec so you can just reinstall It. It is an outlier in terms of its design. Best to use the network here on Mud to find a shop that has experience with this manifold if you do need to surface it at all.
At the end of this process you will have a cooling system that is just about as good as it was when it came off the production line if this is done right. Good luck.
Your Welcome Tommy ,
- Cylinders #3 & #4 are smak-dab in the middle of the Engine Block , and
on a inline 6cyl 2F are ONLY surrounded on 2 sides by Coolant Water
Jackets , so Heat build Up and Thermal Break Down happen Faster here ,
- #1 , #2 , #5 , & #6 are closest to having 3 sides of water jackets cooling them down evenly .
- Once your head is Pulled and taken to a Well Respected Machine Shop ,
you are gonna be told that either or both #3 & #4 Exhaust Valves & seats
are Burnt and need replaced , maybe intake too as well ,,,,,,,,,,
- this is related to the above , so expect that Newz ........
- it';s no biggie in the grand scheme of things ,
- Now , on to your Parts , TOYOTA GENUINE Parts 2F Head gasket sets are
NLA / DISC. ,
- BUT , Quality Made In JAPAN ones from the OEM parts makers are !
i highly suggest you go this route , any head gasket made by
a NON-JAPAN company is simply NOT up to the Rigid TOYOTA Spec's
that have lasted the last 35+ years ..............
I am glad you can benefit from the helpful advise from others
Helping other's , as countless folks have helped me here on MUD over the
years , is why I am a MUD member !
And in my opinion is a Major fundamental reason why it remains such
a Positive & Very Special place .
OEM Toyota HG kits are still available.
04112-61041
I’d replace the following if it was me:
Head bolts: 90910-02050 (x15)
Thermostat: 90916-03052 (gaskets come in kit)
Water Pump: 16110-61081-77 (you can get the OEM supplier Aisin version for a lot cheaper on Rockauto)
Fan Clutch: 16210-61121 (again, you can get this part much cheaper in OEM supplier form- AISIN FCT-17)
I’d replace belts, hoses, etc. Anything that has bearing on the cooling of your engine should be renewed at this time.
Good luck.
bottombracket
SILVER Star
Onur IS the FSM.
If you need/want a hand, reach out. There’s a bunch of us here in town.
If you need/want a hand, reach out. There’s a bunch of us here in town.
- Thread starter
- #79
I gave Land Cruiser Specialists a call, they gave the the 2 machine shops they use - Wolff and Brooks Elliott.
Should I assume that my T-stat and Water Pump are bad? I replaced the water pump 11-18 and the T-stat and radiator 04-19. I guess this is a do it once and do it right scenario though.
Should I assume that my T-stat and Water Pump are bad? I replaced the water pump 11-18 and the T-stat and radiator 04-19. I guess this is a do it once and do it right scenario though.
More correctly, Galen, I am more closely akin to the EPC.
