Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (5 Viewers)

[catastrofe]

@catastrofe I know it would just be speculation, but any thoughts on whether the E3 at four plus feet shorter and 1000 pounds lighter would solve the problem? Or is it just the nature of the frame design not allowing wright distribution?

Steve (not quite ready to abandon this option yet...)

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Renting may be an option. My Hiker squaredrop is maybe 1200# loaded, and is only 11' long. The last time I towed anything big was in the '70s, towing my 5500# boat on a big twin axle trailer behind my grandfather's '68 Cadillac Sedan de Ville with the monster 500 cu in engine. And that was less than 100 miles a couple of times a year in central Ohio's slightly rolling countryside.

I have a lot of trepidation when approaching towing something like the Kimberley Kruiser in the places I want to travel. I know that I'd need to get air bags and a brake controller for my LC. I want to avoid the slippery slope of "Hey, extended fuel would be great, but now I need new suspension and a rear bumper for the spare, and while I'm at it..."

The E3 would probably be okay...I would suggest a discussion with David Bates. I feel the tongue weight on the S3 is a big factor in my situation. I have airbags and stiffer springs over stock, but those modifications don't redistribute weight to the front axle...they only serve to level the rear end under load.

 

[Artie]

Here's a video from Overland Expo West showcasing our trailer (my wife is now a YouTube star!):
We love the trailer...the layout is exactly what we were looking for, and the construction quality is top-notch. The only trailer I've seen (and I've looked at pretty much every US brand on the market) at the same level is Oliver.

As for towing, given a roughly 6,000LB trailer with ~725LBs tongue weight, the LC is not the right vehicle for our use case. The lateral stability is fine, curves and downhills are no problem. My issues are the amount of engine work required to tackle hills and on-ramps, and with the Kimberley, the fore-aft dynamics suffer without a WD system. Quite a bit it of porpoising on concrete interstate sections. Since the market is hot for LCs right now, I've ordered an F350 Tremor and will be selling the Cruiser when it arrives.

Thanks for sharing, I’ve been curious about these since they started getting imported.

The wrappon at the end… that’s possibly the best luxury item that we’ve ponied up for. With two kids under 6 it’s the biggest flex to pull off anywhere and let them (or me or the wife) handle business without going into sketchy public bathrooms.

 

[TeCKis300]

The E3 would probably be okay...I would suggest a discussion with David Bates. I feel the tongue weight on the S3 is a big factor in my situation. I have airbags and stiffer springs over stock, but those modifications don't redistribute weight to the front axle...they only serve to level the rear end under load.

That's too bad and sounds like you've done all the right things. I would have thought the Kimberley being from AUS, would target the 200-series as the ideal target tow vehicle. They don't have many of the larger "ute" options we have in the states and have only recently gotten the RAM.

I'm having a hard time making out your exact hitch setup. Hope you don't take this the wrong way and it's not so much a critique as hoping this will open up the S3 for other 200-series owners. Looks like there's some parallelogram type drop hitch thing you have that may project the pivot further from the bumper? In my experience towing a 1200lb tongue trailer, inches make big differences here, independent of WD. I shortened my drop hitch projection 2.5" and it made a difference. From some really minor porpoising to none. If I'm not mistaken on what you have there, an adjustable Rhino Drop Hitch, there's probably 8" of extra projection from the rear bumper. This stuff is often discussed on the Airstream forums as even HD trucks are not immune and benefit from seemingly minor details.

 

[OBXDreamer]

You can do all of this work to your LC200 to get it ready to tow, or you can just back it up to the boat, connect the brake wires and GO! I towed this little boat 800 miles with no problems at all….

 

[Bomar]

That's too bad and sounds like you've done all the right things. I would have thought the Kimberley being from AUS, would target the 200-series as the ideal target tow vehicle. They don't have many of the larger "ute" options we have in the states and have only recently gotten the RAM.

I'm having a hard time making out your exact hitch setup. Hope you don't take this the wrong way and it's not so much a critique as hoping this will open up the S3 for other 200-series owners. Looks like there's some parallelogram type drop hitch thing you have that may project the pivot further from the bumper? In my experience towing a 1200lb tongue trailer, inches make big differences here, independent of WD. I shortened my drop hitch projection 2.5" and it made a difference. From some really minor porpoising to none. If I'm not mistaken on what you have there, an adjustable Rhino Drop Hitch, there's probably 8" of extra projection from the rear bumper. This stuff is often discussed on the Airstream forums as even HD trucks are not immune and benefit from seemingly minor details.

@TeCKis300 they do.... Heck James (owner) still has his 100 series the last I spoke with him but they all have diesels not gassers.

@catastrofe my towing improved 200% when I dropped the tongue a lot. Riding level like you are my towing experience was not pleasant at higher speeds. But then adjustested when I got offroad.

I run the same adjustable hitch that Bates does after I went through 4 others and was never happy.

 

[Dunbar]

The PIDs might be different for AT temp for the 2016+ trucks with the 8 speed. Mine is a 2013 with the 6 speed. Edit those gauges and change the PID, I suspect there's a slightly different one for the newer transmission

I'm not sure about the gear for you. For me it correctly shows 1 through 6. Maybe like the above there's a slightly different PID?

When the TC locks the gear dial will get a little green ring around it. When it unlocks the green ring goes away. My image in Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/towing-with-a-200-series-toyota-land-cruiser.932343/page-50#post-14066087 shows what it looks like when the TC is locked. If I put the truck in Park it shows the gear is "8". I'd have to check but Neutral and Reverse probably read 7 or 9 or something too.

Yes they are different for the 2016+. My 2020 8 speed had the AT temps both reading zero till I went searching for them and found AT Temp 1 and AT Temp 3. I think I have them mapped correctly with AT Pan showing a higher temp than AT TC. The lockup is in there, search for Lock Up. It was different from the 2015- PDI. I am adding boost to mine from 0 to 8 psi. The Harrop SC is supposed to get 6.5psi at Stage 1. It is a calculated value, I assume I could get a sensor and a physical gauge.

 

[linuxgod]

Yes they are different for the 2016+. My 2020 8 speed had the AT temps both reading zero till I went searching for them and found AT Temp 1 and AT Temp 3. I think I have them mapped correctly with AT Pan showing a higher temp than AT TC. The lockup is in there, search for Lock Up. It was different from the 2015- PDI. I am adding boost to mine from 0 to 8 psi. The Harrop SC is supposed to get 6.5psi at Stage 1. It is a calculated value, I assume I could get a sensor and a physical gauge.

TC will typically be the higher temp and will vary a lot. The pan temp will be pretty steady and climbs more slowly.

 

[Artie]

Thanks!

I was originally going to go with the McHitch, but it adds length to the tongue which impacts towing physics (so I’m told) so I went with the Cruisemaster DO-35. The Cruisemaster was also recommended over the McHitch by the owner of Hitch-Ezy in Australia (Hitch-Ezy | Tow Couplings | Caravan 4WD Towing - https://www.hitch-ezy.com.au/).

Gas mileage from Albuquerque to Petrified Forest National Park hauling 35 gallons of fresh/gray water:

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Any reason you didn’t go with the Hitch EZY? He told me the same thing recently so I’ve narrowed down to the Hitch EZY and DO35.

 

[Romer]

I have the Hitch Ezy. It is more expensive but is very robust. The Tregg would bind up and isnt as easy to put on.

I talked to the Hitch Ezy owner designer and he does like the D035 over the McHitch but he likes the Hitch Ezy much better. You have to import it directly from Austrlia though

 

[Romer]

and to an earlier comment. On the KKOG site were Kimberley Karavan and Kruiser owners have a place like this forum, the most prevalent tow rig I have seen is the 200 series. Once I learned to take it out of overdrive on the passes, I have had zero issues towing a fully loaded Karavan over the rockies to about everywhere we go

 

[eatSleepWoof]

and to an earlier comment. On the KKOG site were Kimberley Karavan and Kruiser owners have a place like this forum, the most prevalent tow rig I have seen is the 200 series. Once I learned to take it out of overdrive on the passes, I have had zero issues towing a fully loaded Karavan over the rockies to about everywhere we go

Worth noting that overseas they can get the diesel 200 series, and that's likely a large percentage of their tow vehicles.

 

[Artie]

I have the Hitch Ezy. It is more expensive but is very robust. The Tregg would bind up and isnt as easy to put on.

I talked to the Hitch Ezy owner designer and he does like the D035 over the McHitch but he likes the Hitch Ezy much better. You have to import it directly from Austrlia though View attachment 2917909View attachment 2917910

Thanks for the feedback. I’ve been emailing with John at Hitch EZY over the last several days and he’s been great with helping me work out a mounting solution for my Conqueror. I feel like the Hitch EZY edges out the DO35 in every metric except cost and US support. That being said, it looks like you get what you pay for with it and that should make the support question moot.

 

[Romer]

Worth noting that overseas they can get the diesel 200 series, and that's likely a large percentage of their tow vehicles.

Fair point

All I can say is I never have had an issue towing my Karavan and the S3 is 500 lbs heavier empty. Now the T3 is another 2000lbs on top of that

My Karavan full loaded with tanks full is about 5500 lbs. The S3 has more room so it is about 1000 lbs heavier fully loaded

 

[Bomar]

I have DO35 and I would go Hitch EZY.

 

[Artie]

I have the Hitch Ezy. It is more expensive but is very robust. The Tregg would bind up and isnt as easy to put on.

I talked to the Hitch Ezy owner designer and he does like the D035 over the McHitch but he likes the Hitch Ezy much better. You have to import it directly from Austrlia though View attachment 2917909View attachment 2917910

I forgot to ask…
What ball mount are you using? I’m going to need a drop mount and it looks like they all will cause a clearance issue with the vehicle side of the Hitch EZY. 73mm from center of hole is what John recommend for clearance.

 

[Romer]

I am using a Reese hitch receiver, I forget the drop on it. The ball is actually part of the Hitch Ezy that bolts on to the receiver side

The drop depends on the lift of your vehicle and the height of the trailer receiver. They are pretty cheap, you could start with a 2.5" drop and change it out of it isnt sitting right

 

[Romer]

oh and it tows well offroad as well. This is with the Tregg hitch though

 

[eatSleepWoof]

oh and it tows well offroad as well. This is with the Tregg hitch though
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Is the trailer really ~5500lb as shown in these photos? If so, that's very, very impressive.

I was under the assumption that the Karavan was much, much lighter.

// edit - looked up the specs for the Karavan: 3700lbs dry, 5500 GVWR.

For some reason I thought the Karavan was well under 2000lbs. Clearly not!

 

[Romer]

The kamper is about 2000lbs

 

[Artie]

I am using a Reese hitch receiver, I forget the drop on it. The ball is actually part of the Hitch Ezy that bolts on to the receiver side

The drop depends on the lift of your vehicle and the height of the trailer receiver. They are pretty cheap, you could start with a 2.5" drop and change it out of it isnt sitting right

I need a drop, probably 2 inches. What I was trying to get at with my original inquiry was clearance issues with the hitch ezy itself caused by the ball mount. Have you had any clearance issues with the hitch Ezy on sharp turns and near jack knife scenarios? John, the Hitch EZY guy, said I needed “73mm from center of ball mount hole to any vertical obstruction” for full rotation. This isn’t an issue when using a ball mount in the rise configuration but in the drop configuration the clearance is only about 55mm.