Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser

[Romer]

@marcfj60 Hey Marc have you ridden in/driven a 200 series while wheelin? I would suggest doing so before you make the leap... you will use words to describe your 100 series that you never thought were possible... like narrow, and light, and nimble lol. 200's are delightful trucks out on the highway, if you like buying gas they'll tow that camper as fast as you want. But much different story out on the shelf roads, or in the tight trees, etc. dealing with oncoming Jeeps on Engineer pass will be a bit less fun, for example.

I'm probably the odd duck here (you guys knew that) but I've owned 2 200 series and just didn't like the wheeling experience enough to offset the other benefits. It's all a big compromise just like camping in a ground tent vs. RTT vs. camper etc. It's a fun journey though, just do it eyes open.

I agree with my good freind that they are wider and thus slightly more challenging on a shelf road.

HOWEVER

Having owned a 40, 80, 100 and 200, I find the 200 to be the best wheeler I have had. If you are hard into challenging rock crawling advanced wheeling, the 80 series on 35's or greater is hard to beat. On the trails I run like Black Bear, Mesquito Pass, Hells Revenge, Posion Spyder, etc I find the 200 series to be better and I would never consider a 100 series better at wheeling, just my opinion.

I love my 200 series aand have had it for 10 years. It tow's awesome and wheels great. It is the best Land Cruiser I have ever owned and supoerior to the 100 series. The extra inch or two in width isn't aa big deal in praticallity.

The extra power is awesome

It is a personal preference. @nakman and I wheel a lot together and have been freinds a long time and I always respect his opinion.

 

[marcfj60]

I agree with my good freind that they are wider and thus slightly more challenging on a shelf road.

HOWEVER

Having owned a 40, 80, 100 and 200, I find the 200 to be the best wheeler I have had. If you are hard into challenging rock crawling advanced wheeling, the 80 series on 35's or greater is hard to beat. On the trails I run like Black Bear, Mesquito Pass, Hells Revenge, Posion Spyder, etc I find the 200 series to be better and I would never consider a 100 series better at wheeling, just my opinion.

I love my 200 series aand have had it for 10 years. It tow's awesome and wheels great. It is the best Land Cruiser I have ever owned and supoerior to the 100 series. The extra inch or two in width isn't aa big deal in praticallity.

The extra power is awesome

It is a personal preference. @nakman and I wheel a lot together and have been freinds a long time and I always respect his opinion.

Thanks Ken. I appreciate your experience as well.

 

[TeCKis300]

I'm not too picky about LC vs LX. My biggest need is to be under $30K, preferably in the $25K range. I've also looked at Tundras and even considered a cheap F150 but then I'd have a pickup that doesn't really get used for anything else and I'm not sure I want to go off-roading with. I have a 5X10 utility trailer that will hold 2K lbs so a pickup bed is not useful to me other than I could haul some extra things when towing the camper. Although, I have thought a cheap F150 with a 5.0 V8 and 10 speed might get good enough highway fuel economy to replace my daily driver.

I'm thinking the 200-series will replace my 2011 4R Trail, which only gets driven about once a week as the extra grocery getter and the family car that my wife rides in and we haul her wheelchair around in. It would be great to get down to three, or maybe even only 2 cars now that kids are moved out or have their own car. Currently I've got a 5th and a 4th gen 4R, '99LC and '08 Lexus ES350. I could sell the two 4R and replace with a 200-series, then just have the 100-series for more serious off-road duty and lighter trailers and the ES for commuting duties.

Perhaps my own opinion, but I don't consider the 100-series a more serious off-roader. Sure, it's more compact in front and rear overhangs, slightly lower beltline, finger light steering all combine to make if feel more agile. But feel doesn't equate to more actual off-roadability.

Having wheeled my own, and still wheeling with buddies in 100-series, the 200-series needs no apologies. They have the same wheelbase. A 200-series actually has a tighter turning radius by 1ft (39.7 ft vs 38.7 ft). An LX will fit 35s with just a weekends worth of work. 37s aren't out of question. It has a stronger core, more suspension travel, and a much stronger engine.

Pertinent to this thread, I see no point keeping a separate wheeler when talking about towing. As the tow vehicle will be towing the camper and will double as the wheeler on most trips? At least that's how I use mine.

That's the strength of all Land Cruisers. All around swiss army knife capabilities, with the 200-series taking a big step up from the 100-series in capacities. Heck, it's good enough to maybe displace the 4Rs, LCs, and ES?

 

[Romer]

Pertinent to this thread, I see no point keeping a separate wheeler when talking about towing. As the tow vehicle will be towing the camper and will double as the wheeler on most trips? At least that's how I use mine.

Sometimes it can do both

 

[marcfj60]

Sometimes it can do both
View attachment 4017227View attachment 4017228View attachment 4017229

Imagine if we could get a new 70-series in the US to tow a Kimberly Kamper.

 

[Jason Andrews]

Well, I just flashed a tune to lock up the TC in 4th gear. To late tonight to take it for a spin but I will try tomorrow and report back with more details.

I just got my tune updated yesterday and had him enable 4th gear TC lockup above 30mph. I will see if it works next time I tow to Moab.

 

[TFJ4runner]

Taking my daily home after three grueling days swapping engines at a friend's shop.

 

[echocall]

First time towing with not a pickup, thank goodness I got the 5.7

 

[RyanR]

We tow a 33ft Camper with our 2018 LX570. Camper is a Forest River Ozark 2960BHK. It's about 7,200lbs with a hitch weight of 715lbs with a full fresh water tank, all our gear inside and a 1UP bike carrier with 4 Mountain Bikes hanging off the back. LX is completely stock minus the Redarc brake controller and I'm using an E2 WD/Sway Control hitch.

LX tows it without any fuss. Having owned a 2008 and 2013 previously though I feel the 8SP transmission is a little less refined than 6SP but it is nice having the extra ratios in the hills.

 

[RyanR]

Reading through the previous comments in these threads, I would encourage everyone to take the information from this discussion and go do as much real world testing with your own vehicle and trailer. Change things way up and way down just so you can feel what too little or too much feels like on your WD hitch and then start adjusting. Especially if you have AHC, you need to toss some of the conventional wisdom out the window and do your own testing to dial things in.

IMO on of the biggest things you should address first is getting the camper perfectly level. You can play with the hitch load and head angle all you want but if your camper isn’t level first you’re going to have poor handling characteristics.

Second, and this is maybe preference, I like to set my trailer brakes a touch aggressive, just past balanced. In a rapid stop I’d rather my trailer be acting as a boat anchor vs pushing my vehicle trying to force it to rotate. Take time, setup your brake controller properly. Actually go out on an empty stretch and test emergency stopping. What feels good at 35MPH might be catastrophic at 75MPH and it’s better to learn that on an empty road with an empty car than in traffic with your family along for the ride.

Just my perspective here but “following the directions” and calling it good then hitting the road is gambling with your safety and the safety of those you share the road with. Test your setups before heading cross country and stay safe out there all!

 

[GordJ]

One of the issues that I had with setting the bike up too aggressively like you do is that the trailer brakes are not as effective as the truck. When making long slow stops or downhills I feel like the trailer brakes are going to use up more of their life than is optimal. One of the things that I like about the P3 controller is that it is supposed to bake more aggressively on "rapid" applications and apply more brake quicker than on "normal" applications. At least that is what I thought that it is supposed to do. But, other than that, your post is spot on in my opinion. And, because I am an awesome driver, I will never be in a position to have to make a panic stop. lol.

 

[RyanR]

One of the issues that I had with setting the bike up too aggressively like you do is that the trailer brakes are not as effective as the truck. When making long slow stops or downhills I feel like the trailer brakes are going to use up more of their life than is optimal. One of the things that I like about the P3 controller is that it is supposed to bake more aggressively on "rapid" applications and apply more brake quicker than on "normal" applications. At least that is what I thought that it is supposed to do. But, other than that, your post is spot on in my opinion. And, because I am an awesome driver, I will never be in a position to have to make a panic stop. lol.

You're not wrong, but brake pads (Or shoes if you have drum brakes) are super cheap and easy to change. For me I might tow my camper 2-3k miles a year realistically so even if I am just going ham beating up those trailer brakes I'll still see 10-15 years out of a set of brake shoes. I probably won't keep the camper long enough to get to the first shoe change.

Having a smart controller with a proportional brake force mode is definitely a huge upgrade over the old school manual controllers.

 

[TeCKis300]

Agreed that its good to have trailer brakes generally set to keep lash-up in tension, that is inherently more stable, especially for emergency non-straight-line braking situations as its less likely for the trailer to jack-knife the tow rig.

The Prodigy products have a nice boost feature that's I use in higher speed freeway running where it applies more aggressive initial braking before falling back onto proportional braking.

The one situation I do turn off boost and possibly even lower proportional braking is in really long extended downhills down a mountain. Trailer drum brakes have very poor heat dissipation and can overheat easily leading to significant fade. Of course relying on engine braking is the primary safety, but in some lower speed downhills, stuck between first and second gear, it can be hard to get enough RPM for significant engine braking and this is where you have to really watch trailer brake fade.

That's where Hawk LTS brake pads on the tow vehicle really earn their keep with strong braking even into extended temps.

 

[Sandroad]

Reading through the previous comments in these threads, I would encourage everyone to take the information from this discussion and go do as much real world testing with your own vehicle and trailer. Change things way up and way down just so you can feel what too little or too much feels like on your WD hitch and then start adjusting. Especially if you have AHC, you need to toss some of the conventional wisdom out the window and do your own testing to dial things in.

IMO on of the biggest things you should address first is getting the camper perfectly level. You can play with the hitch load and head angle all you want but if your camper isn’t level first you’re going to have poor handling characteristics.

Second, and this is maybe preference, I like to set my trailer brakes a touch aggressive, just past balanced. In a rapid stop I’d rather my trailer be acting as a boat anchor vs pushing my vehicle trying to force it to rotate. Take time, setup your brake controller properly. Actually go out on an empty stretch and test emergency stopping. What feels good at 35MPH might be catastrophic at 75MPH and it’s better to learn that on an empty road with an empty car than in traffic with your family along for the ride.

Just my perspective here but “following the directions” and calling it good then hitting the road is gambling with your safety and the safety of those you share the road with. Test your setups before heading cross country and stay safe out there all!

Important advice to test setup! On the advice to set trailer brakes just past balanced, I would be very very careful with that. Modern proportional controllers account for changing braking force and if they are set up to balance with the tow vehicle, won't cause trailer push even in a panic stop. The serious risk in going too far with having the trailer brakes act more aggressively is trailer wheel lockup. I don't think any trailer has anti-lock brakes and you for sure don't want wheel lock up ever.

 

[RyanR]

Important advice to test setup! On the advice to set trailer brakes just past balanced, I would be very very careful with that. Modern proportional controllers account for changing braking force and if they are set up to balance with the tow vehicle, won't cause trailer push even in a panic stop. The serious risk in going too far with having the trailer brakes act more aggressively is trailer wheel lockup. I don't think any trailer has anti-lock brakes and you for sure don't want wheel lock up ever.

100% agree. If your trailers tires are locking up in any scenario you need to be backing down your brake force.

 

[2021 LC200]

I find this video interesting.

Basically having a hook load is good for having the rear axle contribute more to an emergency stop.

Provides some confidence, though I (try to) keep lots of distance ahead of me when towing.

 

[GordJ]

Great, now the Cheerios are on the front bunk with the bowls, silverware, sugar and toilet paper.

 

[Artie]

I find this video interesting.

Basically having a hook load is good for having the rear axle contribute more to an emergency stop.

Provides some confidence, though I (try to) keep lots of distance ahead of me when towing.

I expected the towing vehicle to have a longer stopping distance but this was much shorter than I was expecting. Not that this gives me the confidence to tailgate but it is definitely reassuring.

You lose approximately one car length at 60mph with 6k lb trailer.

 

[2021 LC200]

I expected the towing vehicle to have a longer stopping distance but this was much shorter than I was expecting. Not that this gives me the confidence to tailgate but it is definitely reassuring.

You lose approximately one car length at 60mph with 6k lb trailer.

Yes, good to know the Land Cruiser stays more level, though we do not know how good the caravan/travel trailer brakes are in this case.

Agree it should give us confidence an emergency stop works pretty good. Keep that distance though!

 

[marcfj60]

So I'm looking around at used LC vs LX (stuff in the 2010 - 2015 timeframe) and noticed the published tow rating is 8K on the LC vs. only 7K on the LX. I've looked around a little for an explanation and only thing I'm coming up with is the LX has an active suspension which can't handle the same loads as a traditional one. But everything I'm looking at is online since I live in ABQ and rarely see either a LC200 or LX570 for sale locally. Opinions?