Tire Chains on a 200 Series?

[W.F. McCall]

Has anyone driven their 200 Series with tire chains on the front and back tires? I am thinking about getting a 2013 200 Series, but I would want to be able to put on tire chains to drive up and down a steep, muddy, and snowy mountain trail when I go elk hunting. If you have done so, can you give me the brand/model? I suspect the traditional, larger chains from places like www.tirechain.com may be too thick for clearance.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or help.

 

[gaijin]

Has anyone driven their 200 Series with tire chains on the front and back tires? I am thinking about getting a 2013 200 Series, but I would want to be able to put on tire chains to drive up and down a steep, muddy, and snowy mountain trail when I go elk hunting. If you have done so, can you give me the brand/model? I suspect the traditional, larger chains from places like www.tirechain.com may be too thick for clearance.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or help.

Page 303 of your Owner's Manual gives specific dimensions for chains that are suitable.

The manual also states the following cautions for chain use:

n Tire chains
Observe the following precautions when installing and removing chains.
l Install and remove tire chains in a safe location.
l Install tire chains on the rear tires only. Do not install the chains on the
front tires.
l Install tire chains following the instructions provided in the accompanying
manual.

Looks like chains on the front wheels is not a good idea.

 

[snobdds]

My experience has been, that precaution goes for ANY Toyota with IFS as the front suspension. The solid axel Toyotas have been fine to have Chains on the front. The A-arms and the ball joints are too close to the inner tire and there are clearence issues.

Just remember to turn off the traction control with chains on...

 

[patrickfinley]

With an all wheel drive vehicle it is highly advised to use chains on all 4 tires. You are changing your vehicle from having equal traction on 4 tires to having much better traction on just the back. This will cause your front end to slip around.

The problem with the Land Cruisers is that the front control arm has about 1 inch clearance to the front tire. This was the case with the 100's I was hoping it was fixed on the 200's but perhaps not. This meant that front chains would run the risk of hitting the front control arm damaging both.

S-Class chains can be quite thin and could be just fine with clearance on the front. Especially the metal coil/bungee type that are more snug against the tire. Granted the metal coil/bungee type are not quite as effective as a thick chain link, but it is better than just the tire.
http://www.amazon.com/Security-Chain-Company-SZ435-Pickups/dp/B000HZDFVY/?tag=ihco-20

 

[snobdds]

With an all wheel drive vehicle it is highly advised to use chains on all 4 tires. You are changing your vehicle from having equal traction on 4 tires to having much better traction on just the back. This will cause your front end to slip around.

No no no...Do not chain up the front end.

The system does not need to be symetical front and rear. That is not the intent nor the chararistics of AWD.

What you might be thinking of is both front and rear tires need to be of the same height...that could cause a bound up TC. Even that is highly unlikly unless the tires are way different.

 

[patrickfinley]

Hey Snobdds, I know you live in some pretty harsh snow conditions and probably know driving in snow better than most. Perhaps you can shed some light on this.

Most people out there are advocating using chains on all 4 tires. My understanding is that chains on one axle would make the vehicle act like a 2wd vehicle because it now had much less traction on the non chained tire.

• Snow chains mounted on all 4 with 4WD/AWD - ideal lateral stability, perfect acceleration, crisp steering, super braking. However, part time systems will show some understeer (turns are wider than intended). Full time 4WD systems are best. This is what everyone should have for snow and ice. Be careful anyway.

• Snow chains mounted on rear axle with 4WD/AWD - good acceleration, lousy steering (no lateral guidance), marginal braking (remember, 80% of brake force is created at front wheels and without chains that ain't happening). No fishtailing. Best compromise for 4WD with only one pair of chains. Go slow.

http://www.rubicon-trail.com/ML320/ml_chains.html


"Traction is needed for acceleration and negative acceleration (braking). And of course for steering. If the ground does not provide enough traction, snow tire chains are recommended to increase traction - however, if you use a set of chains only on one axle you are essentially re-converting your 4WD/AWD into a 2WD vehicle - a 4 brake vehicle into a 2 brake vehicle. Would you buy a car that has only two brakes?????

Also: For maximum braking and shortest stopping distances snow tire chains are mandatory on all four wheels. With a snow tire chain set on only one axle the stopping distance would be twice as long. Imagine the Range Rover (top image) with chains only on the tires of one axle.

Why spend a premium to own a modern AWD or 4WD SUV to have the safety of a sophisticated 4WD/AWD system and then save $200 for a second pair of snow chains and throw the advantages of 4WD/AWD out of the window?"

 

[gaijin]

Hey Snobdds, I know you live in some pretty harsh snow conditions and probably know driving in snow better than most. Perhaps you can shed some light on this.

Most people out there are advocating using chains on all 4 tires. My understanding is that chains on one axle would make the vehicle act like a 2wd vehicle because it now had much less traction on the non chained tire.

• Snow chains mounted on all 4 with 4WD/AWD - ideal lateral stability, perfect acceleration, crisp steering, super braking. However, part time systems will show some understeer (turns are wider than intended). Full time 4WD systems are best. This is what everyone should have for snow and ice. Be careful anyway.

• Snow chains mounted on rear axle with 4WD/AWD - good acceleration, lousy steering (no lateral guidance), marginal braking (remember, 80% of brake force is created at front wheels and without chains that ain't happening). No fishtailing. Best compromise for 4WD with only one pair of chains. Go slow.

http://www.rubicon-trail.com/ML320/ml_chains.html


"Traction is needed for acceleration and negative acceleration (braking). And of course for steering. If the ground does not provide enough traction, snow tire chains are recommended to increase traction - however, if you use a set of chains only on one axle you are essentially re-converting your 4WD/AWD into a 2WD vehicle - a 4 brake vehicle into a 2 brake vehicle. Would you buy a car that has only two brakes?????

Also: For maximum braking and shortest stopping distances snow tire chains are mandatory on all four wheels. With a snow tire chain set on only one axle the stopping distance would be twice as long. Imagine the Range Rover (top image) with chains only on the tires of one axle.

Why spend a premium to own a modern AWD or 4WD SUV to have the safety of a sophisticated 4WD/AWD system and then save $200 for a second pair of snow chains and throw the advantages of 4WD/AWD out of the window?"

I think you need to send this information to Toyota Motor Corporation immediately so they can correct the obviously wrong and (according to you) dangerous prohibition they include in their Owner's Manuals against using chains on the front wheels.

It's always refreshing to read this good info from an anonymous internet persona who knows much more than the manufacturer of the vehicles we drive.

Can you share any other dangerous information that is in the Owner's Manual that we should ignore?

TIA

 

[patrickfinley]

Ganjin, there's no need for the smart remarks on here. It does nothing to expand on the body of knowledge contained on this forum. This is a forum of people trying to share an disseminate information. If we can't have a conversation that challenges opinions stated in here than what good is a forum?

Nowhere in the information that I posted did I state that it was specific to the Land Cruiser. This is just general information that has been assumed by many 4wd people who use chains for deep snow/ice driving.

The LC has a design issue with the IFS that prevents using chains up front, that is why it is in the manual. I'm not recommending to use standard snow chains on all 4 tires for the LC, however I am saying it is my opinion that it may be dangerous just using chains on the rear tires only.

Snobdds lives in a region that has a ton of snow and he knows quite a bit about driving in bad winter weather. I'd like to know and understand his opinion on this.

I think you need to send this information to Toyota Motor Corporation immediately so they can correct the obviously wrong and (according to you) dangerous prohibition they include in their Owner's Manuals against using chains on the front wheels.

It's always refreshing to read this good info from an anonymous internet persona who knows much more than the manufacturer of the vehicles we drive.

Can you share any other dangerous information that is in the Owner's Manual that we should ignore?

TIA

 

[TroutRunner]

Chains on all 4 tires is the best.

Chains on the rear is better than no chains at all. Keep speeds in check.

Don't put chains on the front of the 200 or you run the risk of jacking up the front components.

My Tundra has the same limitation. If I need all 4 chained up, better take the 80 anyway and triple lock it up...with chains.

G

 

[W.F. McCall]

Thanks for the responses.

Sounds like there may be some clearance issues with putting chains on the front and that it's not recommended in the Owner's Manual.

It also doesn't sound like anyone has put chains on the front (at least thus far in the responses). Thanks again.

 

[bjowett]

The clearance issue is with the upper control arm. Narrower tires, different offset wheels, or, gulp... wheel spacers, may give you the required clearance.

 

[snobdds]

There is however, a picture that was posted in the 200 series thread, of some weird type of ratch type of front tire chain (see below). Don't know exactly how it works...Hope the guys chimes in on the other thread.

 

[jwestpro]

good grief there are some attitudes on this thread....don't you think so Gaijin?

Anyway, I think I will trust Bil Burke, a 4x4 expert, over lawyers at Toyota who are only going to suggest things that are 110% without even a hair of issue. They have to do this because of human error in how things are set up, allowing for the wrong chains, sloppy set up, etc. Also, I would expect the manual is intended for roadway use of chains, not off road.

If you want to slide off the side of a road into the woods, definitely only use chains on the rear. If you want to go where you choose to go in snow, then chain all 4 wheels, lock the center diff, and go slow.

I use the RUD 4x4 chains and have a tighter clearance than the LC200 at my upper A arms. People with clearance issues simply add spacers in the winter but not too much or not too large of tires or else you get clearance issues on full lock turning just like having too large a tire or wrong wheel offset.

 

[snobdds]

good grief there are some attitudes on this thread....don't you think so Gaijin?

Anyway, I think I will trust Bil Burke, a 4x4 expert, over lawyers at Toyota who are only going to suggest things that are 110% without even a hair of issue. They have to do this because of human error in how things are set up, allowing for the wrong chains, sloppy set up, etc. Also, I would expect the manual is intended for roadway use of chains, not off road.

If you want to slide off the side of a road into the woods, definitely only use chains on the rear. If you want to go where you choose to go in snow, then chain all 4 wheels, lock the center diff, and go slow.

I use the RUD 4x4 chains and have a tighter clearance than the LC200 at my upper A arms. People with clearance issues simply add spacers in the winter but not too much or not too large of tires or else you get clearance issues on full lock turning just like having too large a tire or wrong wheel offset.

Thanks for the, I've never done this but have an opinion anyway, response. You clearly have never looked under a 200 series to see what is actually going on. Again, your opinion speaks volumes...

 

[jwestpro]

Thanks for the, I've never done this but have an opinion anyway, response. You clearly have never looked under a 200 series to see what is actually going on. Again, your opinion speaks volumes...

Actually I HAVE done this. In fact I said I "use" the referenced chains. Maybe read the meaning of the words next time?

This isn't rocket science and the LC 4x4/AWD isn't much different than other current vehicles doing the same thing. I HAVE "looked" under a LC200, it isn't much different in concept than some other vehicles.

Have you ever used chains on a deep snow covered trail? I couldn't care less about the best way to use chains on a highway, that's what snow tires are for.

If you have something to explain, go for it.

 

[snobdds]

Actually I HAVE done this. In fact I said I "use" the referenced chains.

No you haven't...not on a 200 LC anyways.

 

[jwestpro]

Ok, maybe you are assuming something I am missing. You think I have not done what exactly, "looked under" a LC200? Used snow chains? Be specific and clear or move on.

-nice EDIT-whatever. LC 4x4 system is not much different from others. some of it reminds me of MB G wagen, some reminds me of my older rovers. It's mostly irrelevant though in regard to using chains in deep snow.

-I suppose I didn't own a 2006 LC either.

 

[kreiten]

Actually I HAVE done this. In fact I said I "use" the referenced chains. Maybe read the meaning of the words next time?

This isn't rocket science and the LC 4x4/AWD isn't much different than other current vehicles doing the same thing. I HAVE "looked" under a LC200, it isn't much different in concept than some other vehicles.

Have you ever used chains on a deep snow covered trail? I couldn't care less about the best way to use chains on a highway, that's what snow tires are for.

If you have something to explain, go for it.

Jwestpro has seen the underside of a 200, mine about 2 days ago, we discussed this very thing, he's just saying put some wheel spacers on it and you have another inch of so of clearance, seems like it would work to me... now it's gonna be a bit of a pain to throw wheel spacers on everytime ya want to go deep into the mtns, but proly not as big of a pain as being stuck in a ditch if ya don't, just saying

 

[snobdds]

Ok, maybe you are assuming something I am missing. You think I have not done what exactly, "looked under" a LC200? Used snow chains? Be specific and clear or move on.

-nice EDIT-whatever. LC 4x4 system is not much different from others. some of it reminds me of MB G wagen, some reminds me of my older rovers. It's mostly irrelevant though in regard to using chains in deep snow.

-I suppose I didn't own a 2006 LC either.

I'm flattered you think this is possible. However, chains do not work on the front of a 200 LC, in fact chains do not work on the front of any stock Toyota IFS. Solid front axle yes, they work fine. How many more ways does it need to be explained?

Yes, wheel spacers would in theory work, but your trading one problem for another. With wheel spacers, the tires will rub the inner wheel well at turns and compression.

But, by all means...believe what you want.

 

[jwestpro]

Tire width choice would be key, obviously, as the only issue you can be referring to, yet have not specified other than just saying "no, believe me", is the upper A arm gap. Can a chain work on a 295/65x18? Well no of course not but the issue is what tire shape and effective offset.

There is a lot of room under that wheel well, more than I have on the Rover and plenty of people have documented using the chains on all 4 wheels. They are not using over-sized tires though. Generally the solution has been with a factory spec size plus a spacer.