Thoughts From the 200 Crew On the LC250 Reveal (2 Viewers)

[Girl Dad of 3]

You keep referencing “light duty”. What’s your definition of “light duty”? Light or heavy duty only matters in terms of how you use your vehicle and I think you have a misconception of what that truly is. The 150 and 250 platform is used worldwide in rural areas like Thailand, Africa, South America, Australia, Middle East. They’re used all over the world in some rough ass terrain in stock and modded configurations. I think you’d be shocked what “light duty” 5th gen 4R, GX460, LC250 or GX550 can do. There’s plenty of examples of that on the forums and socials. Plenty of these “light duty” vehicles have done trails in Moab, the Rubicon, Uwharrie, SW Colorado with ease. I think they’re more heavy duty than you give them credit for. These vehicles have more capability than you (and most drivers) have skill. I had two 5th gen 4Runners that I took on trails that Jeeps on 40’s were surprised I could do on 32” tires, solo no spotter.

If you are a city dwelling, flatlander that is just trying to brave city traffic, rainstorms or the occasional tornado in Dallas then what does it matter if you have a 200 series vs a 4Runner/LC-Prado/GX? In that situation it doesn’t matter what platform you have because that’s just normal city driving. Those aren’t “heavy duty” required driving situations. The question is what do YOU do that requires a “heavy duty” vehicle that you don’t believe a 150 or 250 is suitable for? If your answer is that you feel the 200/300 series is more robust and luxurious then that is fine but let’s not minimize how capable the 150/250 platform is. If you feel better about yourself by saying you have a “heavy duty” 200 series then just say that.

You're also right that the 250s can do just about anything that I would want to do. I'm not doing some of things you guys are doing. I'm not pushing the truck to its limits doing highly technical trails. I'm using it as a truck to have adventures with my family. I'm not going to put my young family anywhere too dangerous, but we do like to go camping, national parks, mountains, lakes, beach, backroads, etc. We're going to Glacier NP this summer for my 40th. We're going camping in Big Bend in the Spring. Things like that. I'm sure with our uses we would get by just fine in the 250. And for a lot of these things we could get by in another brand's vehicle. But the extra robustness and build quality of the 200 are next level. I know that it will take anything I will throw at it and more for as long as I need, and as good as the new 250s are in their own right, it's incredible to me that you can get a used LX 570 in excellent condition (including some that are very gently used based on the prior ownership) for the same price or less than a brand new 250.

 

[JohnPW]

I wouldn't buy either of these POS, but word on the street is 4R is more macho


and we all know how instagrammers love macho

View attachment 3821190

I’ve not yet seen one in person, but based on that pic the 6th gen 4Runner is hideously ugly. It seems like Toyota tries to make each generation of the 4Runner uglier than the last one.

I think the LC250 and the GX550 are both nice looking. I still prefer my 2016 LC for a host of reasons, including how it looks.

I’m not crazy about how the LC300 (that we don’t get here) looks. Except for the GR Sport version, that thing looks awesome. Still prefer a v8 and a tailgate though.

 

[ryanCA]

I’ve not yet seen one in person, but based on that pic the 6th gen 4Runner is hideously ugly. It seems like Toyota tries to make each generation of the 4Runner uglier than the last one.

I think the LC250 and the GX550 are both nice looking. I still prefer my 2016 LC for a host of reasons, including how it looks.

I’m not crazy about how the LC300 (that we don’t get here) looks. Except for the GR Sport version, that thing looks awesome. Still prefer a v8 and a tailgate though.

agreed

300 gr sport is the business

 

[2021 LC200]

You keep referencing “light duty”. What’s your definition of “light duty”? Light or heavy duty only matters in terms of how you use your vehicle and I think you have a misconception of what that truly is. The 150 and 250 platform is used worldwide in rural areas like Thailand, Africa, South America, Australia, Middle East. They’re used all over the world in some rough ass terrain in stock and modded configurations. I think you’d be shocked what “light duty” 5th gen 4R, GX460, LC250 or GX550 can do. There’s plenty of examples of that on the forums and socials. Plenty of these “light duty” vehicles have done trails in Moab, the Rubicon, Uwharrie, SW Colorado with ease. I think they’re more heavy duty than you give them credit for. These vehicles have more capability than you (and most drivers) have skill. I had two 5th gen 4Runners that I took on trails that Jeeps on 40’s were surprised I could do on 32” tires, solo no spotter.

If you are a city dwelling, flatlander that is just trying to brave city traffic, rainstorms or the occasional tornado in Dallas then what does it matter if you have a 200 series vs a 4Runner/LC-Prado/GX? In that situation it doesn’t matter what platform you have because that’s just normal city driving. Those aren’t “heavy duty” required driving situations. The question is what do YOU do that requires a “heavy duty” vehicle that you don’t believe a 150 or 250 is suitable for? If your answer is that you feel the 200/300 series is more robust and luxurious then that is fine but let’s not minimize how capable the 150/250 platform is. If you feel better about yourself by saying you have a “heavy duty” 200 series then just say that.

Have a look online how the 250 Prado is doing in Australia and you understand why many of us do not want a 2024/2025 light duty product from Mr T.

 

[Heckraiser]

You keep referencing “light duty”. What’s your definition of “light duty”? Light or heavy duty only matters in terms of how you use your vehicle and I think you have a misconception of what that truly is. The 150 and 250 platform is used worldwide in rural areas like Thailand, Africa, South America, Australia, Middle East. They’re used all over the world in some rough ass terrain in stock and modded configurations. I think you’d be shocked what “light duty” 5th gen 4R, GX460, LC250 or GX550 can do. There’s plenty of examples of that on the forums and socials. Plenty of these “light duty” vehicles have done trails in Moab, the Rubicon, Uwharrie, SW Colorado with ease. I think they’re more heavy duty than you give them credit for. These vehicles have more capability than you (and most drivers) have skill. I had two 5th gen 4Runners that I took on trails that Jeeps on 40’s were surprised I could do on 32” tires, solo no spotter.

If you are a city dwelling, flatlander that is just trying to brave city traffic, rainstorms or the occasional tornado in Dallas then what does it matter if you have a 200 series vs a 4Runner/LC-Prado/GX? In that situation it doesn’t matter what platform you have because that’s just normal city driving. Those aren’t “heavy duty” required driving situations. The question is what do YOU do that requires a “heavy duty” vehicle that you don’t believe a 150 or 250 is suitable for? If your answer is that you feel the 200/300 series is more robust and luxurious then that is fine but let’s not minimize how capable the 150/250 platform is. If you feel better about yourself by saying you have a “heavy duty” 200 series then just say that.

I like this point about "heavy duty" and "light duty." Most on this forum (and most LC guys) tend to think that heavy duty is superior in every way, but a few thoughts based on my experience:

My first wheeling rig was a 1984 hilux, a few years later I got my first fj60. When I worked on the 60, I was shocked by the size of the axles (9.5" vs 8") frame rails, engine mounts, leaf springs--basically everything on the truck was bigger, "heavy duty." But with no hesitation, no doubt in my mind whatsoever, the hilux was the better offroad vehicle. I ran it hard, wheeled it hard, got it stuck, taught two teenage girls how to drive stick and offroad (they hit stuff) and the thing never broke, never let me down. Would I have been any better off with a "heavy duty" rig? I don't think so. fj60 was much more thirsty, more maintenance-hungry and generally more expensive to keep--didn't get me anywhere the hilux couldn't and got stuck a couple times where the hilux wouldn't have (hung up on spring hangers or diff, both of which hang down a lot lower). The reason I bought it was for the back seat. The only other benefit is that it did a little better on the highway.

Another perfect example: 4th gen 4runner v8 vs. LC100. Exact same powertrain, both IFS, but about a half-ton weight difference due to "heavy duty." But a 4runner will go anywhere the 100 will and not break doing so. The main reason consumers bought the 100 is for 3rd row or perceived status.

If something is good enough to do the job, what is the benefit of getting something beefier? I'd argue there is no benefit, and there are significant drawbacks.

As for the new generation--seems they're going to have problems for some users. But the cost savings measures will probably affect the whole lineup similarly. Comparing a 200 and a 250 is really a cross-generational comparison. 200 was designed 20 years ago under different regulations and in a different market.

 

[ryanCA]

I like this point about "heavy duty" and "light duty." Most on this forum (and most LC guys) tend to think that heavy duty is superior in every way, but a few thoughts based on my experience:

My first wheeling rig was a 1984 hilux, a few years later I got my first fj60. When I worked on the 60, I was shocked by the size of the axles (9.5" vs 8") frame rails, engine mounts, leaf springs--basically everything on the truck was bigger, "heavy duty." But with no hesitation, no doubt in my mind whatsoever, the hilux was the better offroad vehicle. I ran it hard, wheeled it hard, got it stuck, taught two teenage girls how to drive stick and offroad (they hit stuff) and the thing never broke, never let me down. Would I have been any better off with a "heavy duty" rig? I don't think so. fj60 was much more thirsty, more maintenance-hungry and generally more expensive to keep--didn't get me anywhere the hilux couldn't and got stuck a couple times where the hilux wouldn't have (hung up on spring hangers or diff, both of which hang down a lot lower). The reason I bought it was for the back seat. The only other benefit is that it did a little better on the highway.

Another perfect example: 4th gen 4runner v8 vs. LC100. Exact same powertrain, both IFS, but about a half-ton weight difference due to "heavy duty." But a 4runner will go anywhere the 100 will and not break doing so. The main reason consumers bought the 100 is for 3rd row or perceived status.

If something is good enough to do the job, what is the benefit of getting something beefier? I'd argue there is no benefit, and there are significant drawbacks.

As for the new generation--seems they're going to have problems for some users. But the cost savings measures will probably affect the whole lineup similarly. Comparing a 200 and a 250 is really a cross-generational comparison. 200 was designed 20 years ago under different regulations and in a different market.

my lexus ls600 hl does the same as a toyota corolla.. i dont want a corolla

i dint want a 4 runner

i want the badddest toyota suv



i am already fat, short, ugly, and have a small penis

thats why i drive sports cars, H1, land cruisers . over compensating american is my middle name

 

[Girl Dad of 3]

I like this point about "heavy duty" and "light duty." Most on this forum (and most LC guys) tend to think that heavy duty is superior in every way, but a few thoughts based on my experience:

My first wheeling rig was a 1984 hilux, a few years later I got my first fj60. When I worked on the 60, I was shocked by the size of the axles (9.5" vs 8") frame rails, engine mounts, leaf springs--basically everything on the truck was bigger, "heavy duty." But with no hesitation, no doubt in my mind whatsoever, the hilux was the better offroad vehicle. I ran it hard, wheeled it hard, got it stuck, taught two teenage girls how to drive stick and offroad (they hit stuff) and the thing never broke, never let me down. Would I have been any better off with a "heavy duty" rig? I don't think so. fj60 was much more thirsty, more maintenance-hungry and generally more expensive to keep--didn't get me anywhere the hilux couldn't and got stuck a couple times where the hilux wouldn't have (hung up on spring hangers or diff, both of which hang down a lot lower). The reason I bought it was for the back seat. The only other benefit is that it did a little better on the highway.

Another perfect example: 4th gen 4runner v8 vs. LC100. Exact same powertrain, both IFS, but about a half-ton weight difference due to "heavy duty." But a 4runner will go anywhere the 100 will and not break doing so. The main reason consumers bought the 100 is for 3rd row or perceived status.

If something is good enough to do the job, what is the benefit of getting something beefier? I'd argue there is no benefit, and there are significant drawbacks.

As for the new generation--seems they're going to have problems for some users. But the cost savings measures will probably affect the whole lineup similarly. Comparing a 200 and a 250 is really a cross-generational comparison. 200 was designed 20 years ago under different regulations and in a different market.

All fair points and good perspective. I guess the problem is that they’re asking like $80,000 for these new “light duty“ trucks.

 

[Specialeyes]

All fair points and good perspective. I guess the problem is that they’re asking like $80,000 for these new “light duty“ trucks.

And if we had the 300 GR here it would most likely be priced well over $100k. That’s asinine imo but it’s also the reality of current times and dollar value.

 

[2021 LC200]

I like this point about "heavy duty" and "light duty." Most on this forum (and most LC guys) tend to think that heavy duty is superior in every way, but a few thoughts based on my experience:

My first wheeling rig was a 1984 hilux, a few years later I got my first fj60. When I worked on the 60, I was shocked by the size of the axles (9.5" vs 8") frame rails, engine mounts, leaf springs--basically everything on the truck was bigger, "heavy duty." But with no hesitation, no doubt in my mind whatsoever, the hilux was the better offroad vehicle. I ran it hard, wheeled it hard, got it stuck, taught two teenage girls how to drive stick and offroad (they hit stuff) and the thing never broke, never let me down. Would I have been any better off with a "heavy duty" rig? I don't think so. fj60 was much more thirsty, more maintenance-hungry and generally more expensive to keep--didn't get me anywhere the hilux couldn't and got stuck a couple times where the hilux wouldn't have (hung up on spring hangers or diff, both of which hang down a lot lower). The reason I bought it was for the back seat. The only other benefit is that it did a little better on the highway.

Another perfect example: 4th gen 4runner v8 vs. LC100. Exact same powertrain, both IFS, but about a half-ton weight difference due to "heavy duty." But a 4runner will go anywhere the 100 will and not break doing so. The main reason consumers bought the 100 is for 3rd row or perceived status.

If something is good enough to do the job, what is the benefit of getting something beefier? I'd argue there is no benefit, and there are significant drawbacks.

As for the new generation--seems they're going to have problems for some users. But the cost savings measures will probably affect the whole lineup similarly. Comparing a 200 and a 250 is really a cross-generational comparison. 200 was designed 20 years ago under different regulations and in a different market.

I understand and share your observations. I also hear online that the 150 may in fact be more robust than the latest incarnation. Future will tell.

P.S. Is not the Hilux the global Tacoma platform? Is/was that a light duty design?

 

[Heckraiser]

All fair points and good perspective. I guess the problem is that they’re asking like $80,000 for these new “light duty“ trucks.

And they charge $115,000 for the "heavy duty" 300. *shrugs* money isn't what it used to be, especially when it comes to cars.

 

[2021 LC200]

And if we had the 300 GR here it would most likely be priced well over $100k. That’s asinine imo but it’s also the reality of current times and dollar value.

Seems it does not have to be when you see what they cost in Japan. I agree though it probably would as the expensive US made Sequoia would suddenly be overlaying the LC300 pricing. We are just screwed here in the way Toyota has done things.

 

[Specialeyes]

I understand and share your observations. I also hear online that the 150 may in fact be more robust than the latest incarnation. Future will tell.

P.S. Is not the Hilux the global Tacoma platform? Is/was that a light duty design?

Hilux is light duty and I believe there is some platform/parts sharing with it and the Surf which translates to Tacoma/4R here in the states. No matter how you slice it all of those trucks have a reputation of taking a beating while getting you wherever you need to go for hundreds of thousands of miles.

 

[2021 LC200]

Hilux is light duty and I believe there is some platform/parts sharing with it and the Surf which translates to Tacoma/4R here in the states. No matter how you slice it all of those trucks have a reputation of taking a beating while getting you wherever you need to go for hundreds of thousands of miles.

Ok, that makes sense. Yes, they all have a great reputation. With computer aided design and commercial/stock market push these days they probably made light duty truely light duty.

I recall an uncle who flew at the end of his career the 747 saying that the 737’s and DC9’s in south america, as i spend time there for my work, had a lot of margin in their original design and were relative safe. I can see lots of parallels.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

You're also right that the 250s can do just about anything that I would want to do. I'm not doing some of things you guys are doing. I'm not pushing the truck to its limits doing highly technical trails. I'm using it as a truck to have adventures with my family. I'm not going to put my young family anywhere too dangerous, but we do like to go camping, national parks, mountains, lakes, beach, backroads, etc. We're going to Glacier NP this summer for my 40th. We're going camping in Big Bend in the Spring. Things like that. I'm sure with our uses we would get by just fine in the 250. And for a lot of these things we could get by in another brand's vehicle. But the extra robustness and build quality of the 200 are next level. I know that it will take anything I will throw at it and more for as long as I need, and as good as the new 250s are in their own right, it's incredible to me that you can get a used LX 570 in excellent condition (including some that are very gently used based on the prior ownership) for the same price or less than a brand new 250.

Another upside of an overbuilt, heavy-duty vehicle is a higher chance of driving away from a whoopsie. Miss a rock on the road and hit it with your undercarriage, diff, control arms, whatever - which vehicle has a higher chance of making it home from that hit? Which vehicle has a better chance of protecting your family from an accident? Give me the overbuilt 200 series all day long.

 

[LX Cruiser]

iHilux is light duty

Back before we got the Tacoma, I thought all Hiluxes were mid-size heavy duty trucks. A midsize with HD axles and rated for a 1000kg (2200lb) of payload.

It was my impression we got the Tacoma in North America because soft whiny Americans complained of ride quality.

The American market is the reason many of us enthusiasts are frustrated with the offerings we can't get here.

Edited to add: I used to link to an article on brian894x4.com that spelled out the differences of the Hilux. The site is down now, but I found that @Brian894X4 is a member here. Here’s a quote from the article:

"But one of the most important reasons for selecting the older suspension may be
surprising. The frame of the older truck was far more durable than the new Tacoma. The
older truck has a fully boxed, internally gussetted frame that is capable of up to a 1 ton load
capacity with minor modifications, including different springs and full floating rear axles.
The Tacoma, and even the bigger Tundra, is only rated for 1/2 ton on all models and offers
no 1 ton model. One reason is likely the weaker only partly boxed frame. Most of the
Hilux's customers are industry who demand high payload capacity. A great number of
Hilux's sold are of the 1 ton capacity type. In the United States, the last Toyota that was 1
ton capable was a version of the 1998 T-100. The T-100 uses the same suspension and
frame as the current generation Hilux, only wider."​

 

[xeuxaz]

agreed

300 gr sport is the business

300GR is basically porn/nsfw.

 

[TeCKis300]

I like this point about "heavy duty" and "light duty." Most on this forum (and most LC guys) tend to think that heavy duty is superior in every way, but a few thoughts based on my experience:

My first wheeling rig was a 1984 hilux, a few years later I got my first fj60. When I worked on the 60, I was shocked by the size of the axles (9.5" vs 8") frame rails, engine mounts, leaf springs--basically everything on the truck was bigger, "heavy duty." But with no hesitation, no doubt in my mind whatsoever, the hilux was the better offroad vehicle. I ran it hard, wheeled it hard, got it stuck, taught two teenage girls how to drive stick and offroad (they hit stuff) and the thing never broke, never let me down. Would I have been any better off with a "heavy duty" rig? I don't think so. fj60 was much more thirsty, more maintenance-hungry and generally more expensive to keep--didn't get me anywhere the hilux couldn't and got stuck a couple times where the hilux wouldn't have (hung up on spring hangers or diff, both of which hang down a lot lower). The reason I bought it was for the back seat. The only other benefit is that it did a little better on the highway.

Another perfect example: 4th gen 4runner v8 vs. LC100. Exact same powertrain, both IFS, but about a half-ton weight difference due to "heavy duty." But a 4runner will go anywhere the 100 will and not break doing so. The main reason consumers bought the 100 is for 3rd row or perceived status.

If something is good enough to do the job, what is the benefit of getting something beefier? I'd argue there is no benefit, and there are significant drawbacks.

As for the new generation--seems they're going to have problems for some users. But the cost savings measures will probably affect the whole lineup similarly. Comparing a 200 and a 250 is really a cross-generational comparison. 200 was designed 20 years ago under different regulations and in a different market.

On point and well said.

Like any tool, use case matters, and one size does not fit all. A std 16oz hammer will be great for general work - with less fatigue, efficiency, and lots of flexibility. A 4Runner is like that. Casual everyday use, into adventure use, suited for so many things. It can be stretched in a pinch to do heavier work, but that's outside of its core competency.

An HD Cruiser is more like a 2lb hammer. It'll do the lighter weight stuff, but not better than the the 16oz. When called upon to do heavier work, that's when it will really make a difference. I think some buyers like that reserve capacity and capability. Others know what tool they really need to haul and carry heavier loads. Or wear 37s while still having robustness and durability.

 

[ryanCA]

300GR is basically porn/nsfw.

I just came.. thanks!


Unlike 250 owners who can't even get it up

 

[Heckraiser]

On point and well said.

Like any tool, use case matters, and one size does not fit all. A std 16oz hammer will be great for general work - with less fatigue, efficiency, and lots of flexibility. A 4Runner is like that. Casual everyday use, into adventure use, suited for so many things. It can be stretched in a pinch to do heavier work, but that's outside of its core competency.

An HD Cruiser is more like a 2lb hammer. It'll do the lighter weight stuff, but not better than the the 16oz. When called upon to do heavier work, that's when it will really make a difference. I think some buyers like that reserve capacity and capability. Others know what tool they really need to haul and carry heavier loads. Or wear 37s while still having robustness and durability.

I think the one job the 200 does better than any other Toyota SUV offering is towing--and that's part of why I chose one. But it comes along with a lot of extra stuff that I would consider "baggage" for my use case (size/weight/inefficiency).

 

[Gazziza]

You're also right that the 250s can do just about anything that I would want to do. I'm not doing some of things you guys are doing. I'm not pushing the truck to its limits doing highly technical trails. I'm using it as a truck to have adventures with my family. I'm not going to put my young family anywhere too dangerous, but we do like to go camping, national parks, mountains, lakes, beach, backroads, etc. We're going to Glacier NP this summer for my 40th. We're going camping in Big Bend in the Spring. Things like that. I'm sure with our uses we would get by just fine in the 250. And for a lot of these things we could get by in another brand's vehicle. But the extra robustness and build quality of the 200 are next level. I know that it will take anything I will throw at it and more for as long as I need, and as good as the new 250s are in their own right, it's incredible to me that you can get a used LX 570 in excellent condition (including some that are very gently used based on the prior ownership) for the same price or less than a brand new 250.

I'm not disagreeing with wanting a 200 series for your use case and there's nothing wrong with wanting the more robust platform either. My objection was to your original comment when you said that the LC250/GX550 was so "light duty" that an Audi Q7 or Genesis GV80 was a better vehicle. Yeah maybe for the mean streets of Dallas but if you have any inkling of adventure then it was a pretty asinine comment.