Sorry to hear about the 283! Im hoping mine will last at least a few years. Mostly just need a new carb and it should still run (well again)
Builds The Clustertruck Rides Again - Refurbishing a 1975 Chevota (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter RWBeringer4x4
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
reddingcruiser
Practicing for retirement
reddingcruiser
Practicing for retirement
The other one says free shipping, too. My bad!!!
- Thread starter
- #1,144
Is what it is! Considering it ran about 9-11lbs of oil pressure at idle, this was always a very real possibility. I had just started to get my hopes up due to the overall cleanliness of the engine as I tore it down. Now I just have to figure out how best to spend $2000 or so...
This is the block that I want. The issue is I would then need a new intake (one that fits Vortec heads) and an electric fuel pump, as the cam-lobe provision for a mechanical pump is not there.
In a perfect world, I would love a roller-block/1-piece rear seal block, with standard Gen 1 heads and a fuel pump provision on the cam lobe - but as far as I can tell that's like saying I want a pet unicorn.
pb4ugo
SILVER Star
Look at Summit s # NAL-12681429, GM long blk with a older 2 piece rear main w/4 bolt mains. 245hp. 2 piece seals have been around for ever. It should work with most of your old parts. In my 40, I run essentially the same GM 350 long blk. I purchased it around 1995, & of course I paid $1150 for it. It still runs awesome. I've been recently working on our old boat , We installed a 350, 1 piece rear main blk and is running a mechanical fuel pump, & flat tappet cam. It has bosses in the lifter valley for roller lifter girdles, but machining is required. Currently, I picked a set of Vortec heads for it. True vortec' heads provide more hp. The problem is Edelbrock wants $230 for a carb'd spread bore intake for the vortec's. 1 piece rear seal Blocks are out there w/a fuel pump provision but probably would have to be found then rebuilt, or source a Short blk and bolt on Vortec's. Some blks have the external provision for mechanical pumps but may not have been machine internally for it, and some are good to go.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #1,146
NAL-12681429 is what I'd probably go with. My annoyance is that this very block used to be advertised as 195HP and cost <$1600 about 3 months ago...
The block in your boat sounds like the 85-95ish era engine - still flat tappet, but 1 piece seal, at least partially machined for rollers, and may-or-may-not have the mechanical fuel pump provisions or cam lobe. This sounds a lot like the "First Mate" brand rebuild I linked previously.
I run that very motor that you're spec'ing - a 350 with Vortec heads, roller cam and TBI. Something to consider about the TBI, its pressure requirement is low enough that you could get away with running an aftermarket, race mechanical pump (requires 9 to 11 psi - carbs operate at 3-7 psi).
I think the electric pump is every bit as reliable as a mechanical pump (and likely even more so since the electric, in-tank pump in my H3 has 150,000 miles and is going strong)....
For illustrative purposes
SBC MECHANICAL FUEL PUMP - 11# PSI
I think the electric pump is every bit as reliable as a mechanical pump (and likely even more so since the electric, in-tank pump in my H3 has 150,000 miles and is going strong)....
For illustrative purposes
SBC MECHANICAL FUEL PUMP - 11# PSI
pb4ugo
SILVER Star
When I shopped for my 40's long blk it was available in 230hp and 260hp, the only difference between the 2 was the cam. I know nothing about 1st mate engines. I might look to find a good local builder so you can have input or confidence in the parts installed and work done, instead of a national builder, but that's just me. Maybe your race buddy might know a good local builder.
Our boat motor came out a chev truck and ran great b4 removing. During tear down to marinize it(cam, lifters, brass core plugs and such), we found it was a rebuilt replacement engine. It had some suspect sludge in the nooks and crannies in the lifter valley. After further review and found it had decent aftermarket heads and the cyldrs looked good. The engine didn't have a ton of miles on it. The bearings were down to copper. The builder used a cheap ass timing chain which wiped out the bottom end. Im surprised it ran so good and it didn't jump time. View attachment 1498763
I'd do more research on 1st mate, and see what they do. Warranties and such. Super Buick Guys engine would be the goal if its within the budget, even with a carb.
Our boat motor came out a chev truck and ran great b4 removing. During tear down to marinize it(cam, lifters, brass core plugs and such), we found it was a rebuilt replacement engine. It had some suspect sludge in the nooks and crannies in the lifter valley. After further review and found it had decent aftermarket heads and the cyldrs looked good. The engine didn't have a ton of miles on it. The bearings were down to copper. The builder used a cheap ass timing chain which wiped out the bottom end. Im surprised it ran so good and it didn't jump time. View attachment 1498763
I'd do more research on 1st mate, and see what they do. Warranties and such. Super Buick Guys engine would be the goal if its within the budget, even with a carb.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #1,149
Cost aside (and at this point, costs are starting to even out across my options) My only real concern with running a TBI engine with a carb is the electric fuel pump. Wiring it doesn't seem particularly difficult (wiring it safely, through an oil pressure switch, a bit moreso). However, from what I've seen most folks run in-tank fuel pumps, which means modifications to the tank. Is this a necessity, or is it just a safe place to put it, instead of mounting it to a frame rail and having the exhaust cook it, or the trail rip it off? As engine tech leaves the stone age - I have less and less of an understanding of what is involved in wiring this stuff up...Are there any good writeups on this? @SuperBuickGuy - I'm guessing you probably chronicled yours somewhere.
I cheated and bought a harness from Howell's EFI. the tl;dr is I'll never buy from them again - poor connections, electrical tape and burrs with shorts in the line.... At this point, I'd point to a FI tech system or similar. One of the things I don't like about the TBI itself is it's done at 4500 rpm. Most motors have quite a bit of the curve left after 4500. The TBI was developed for ramp heads, the vortec uses the same principle, but is light years advanced (and still used today).... benefit is stone-age reliability and parts availability anywhere.
motor, round 2 is here Shipwreck
TBI starts before it, then finally gets dialed in somewhere around page 100....
motor, round 2 is here Shipwreck
TBI starts before it, then finally gets dialed in somewhere around page 100....
pb4ugo
SILVER Star
FI is on my list of things I'd like to do, but the rpm limitations SBG mentions is why it's on the bottom.
- Thread starter
- #1,152
Do these FI kits include provisions for the electric fuel pump? I was more asking what was involved with that - in order to possibly go with a roller motor w/o the mexhanical fuel pump provision.
Are you guys really spooling your trucks up over 4500 RPM? I probably wouldn't notice a difference - the SP2P manifold I've been running pretty much craps out at 4500 RPM anyway. I don't think I ever went much past about 3300RPM on the 283 anyway - beyond that it would throw the fan belt
They're all electric-fuel-pump. The conversation before was pointing out that you don't have to. There is also (and the motor in my FJ40 is one of them) a SBC casting that has roller provisions and the ability to run a mechanical fuel pump.
as for spooling over 4500... yes, yes I do and I'm not sorry at all.
as for spooling over 4500... yes, yes I do and I'm not sorry at all.
pb4ugo
SILVER Star
Keep in mind going to a 1 piece rear seal requires a different flywheel, and I think 87and later up until vortec heads the intake bolts are at a different angle than pre 86. I've heard some have altered their old intakes for the change.
With the stk 4 speed, on the street I'd certainly would see more than 4500 often, and off road too. These days on the trails, with my gearing, I guess I hear it periodically too. I haven't run a tach in years. It's gotta sm420 and it doesn't shift like the stk 4 speed did.
My 1st 350 was built for 8k, I used to play with hot rods on the street, then just drive away.
With the stk 4 speed, on the street I'd certainly would see more than 4500 often, and off road too. These days on the trails, with my gearing, I guess I hear it periodically too. I haven't run a tach in years. It's gotta sm420 and it doesn't shift like the stk 4 speed did.
My 1st 350 was built for 8k, I used to play with hot rods on the street, then just drive away.
- Thread starter
- #1,155
My hot rodder/drag-racer buddy stopped by last night to learn me a thing or two about engines - and learn I did.
I learned that the crank 100% needs to be turned (or replaced) - so that about tells the story for the bottom-end. Crank turned, + New bearings.
After much debate with him over keeping this engine vs. tossing it for a 350, we decided to go ahead and pull the heads, take a look at the cylinders and valves, and let that help guide our decision. The truck had pretty good compression before I pulled it apart - ranging from 140-155psi, and all evidence points to a recent rebuild, so I had high hopes. For once, my optimism paid off!
Looking past the carbon, there is no scoring on the cylinder walls, and no ridge at the top. The cylinders also measure 3.905in across, which suggest this 283 was probably recently bored .030 over. So my 283 is, in fact, now a 287:
The valves were all there, although obviously, the truck was running fairly lean - which makes sense as I've been fighting base-plate leaks around the carb for a long time. The prior re-build did not include hardened valve seats, but since this is an 8.5 or 9:1 compression engine I'm not overly worried. All in all, the valves seem OK.
On the pasenger side, Cylinder 6 was the only one that showed any concern - quite "wet" and oily compared to the rest:
I didn't see any evidence of damage on the head gasket, nor any signs of oil seepage at the intake gasket, though the intake runner is fairly crudded up. The head shows similar oiliness (3rd from the top) so my guess is I have a leaky valve seal:
Long story short, I'm THINKING the only machine work this engine really requires is having the crank turned. The heads don't show any major cause for concern, and the cylinders don't show any bad ridges. I'll pull the lifters next, to see if there's any evidence of damage, but I suspect this will be the same situation - there was no lifter "tap" that I could hear over the exhaust leaks when the engine ran, so I assume everything is pretty OK in there.
It looks like the going rate for a re-ring kit is about $200, and the going rate for a 283 crank, either bought pre-turned off ebay, or getting mine turned, will probably be similarly priced - so I may just tear the engine down, re-ring it, put turned crank and new bearings in the bottom, and seal it back up - we'll see how far $400 gets me.
I learned that the crank 100% needs to be turned (or replaced) - so that about tells the story for the bottom-end. Crank turned, + New bearings.
After much debate with him over keeping this engine vs. tossing it for a 350, we decided to go ahead and pull the heads, take a look at the cylinders and valves, and let that help guide our decision. The truck had pretty good compression before I pulled it apart - ranging from 140-155psi, and all evidence points to a recent rebuild, so I had high hopes. For once, my optimism paid off!
Looking past the carbon, there is no scoring on the cylinder walls, and no ridge at the top. The cylinders also measure 3.905in across, which suggest this 283 was probably recently bored .030 over. So my 283 is, in fact, now a 287
:
The valves were all there, although obviously, the truck was running fairly lean - which makes sense as I've been fighting base-plate leaks around the carb for a long time. The prior re-build did not include hardened valve seats, but since this is an 8.5 or 9:1 compression engine I'm not overly worried. All in all, the valves seem OK.
On the pasenger side, Cylinder 6 was the only one that showed any concern - quite "wet" and oily compared to the rest:
I didn't see any evidence of damage on the head gasket, nor any signs of oil seepage at the intake gasket, though the intake runner is fairly crudded up. The head shows similar oiliness (3rd from the top) so my guess is I have a leaky valve seal:
Long story short, I'm THINKING the only machine work this engine really requires is having the crank turned. The heads don't show any major cause for concern, and the cylinders don't show any bad ridges. I'll pull the lifters next, to see if there's any evidence of damage, but I suspect this will be the same situation - there was no lifter "tap" that I could hear over the exhaust leaks when the engine ran, so I assume everything is pretty OK in there.
It looks like the going rate for a re-ring kit is about $200, and the going rate for a 283 crank, either bought pre-turned off ebay, or getting mine turned, will probably be similarly priced - so I may just tear the engine down, re-ring it, put turned crank and new bearings in the bottom, and seal it back up - we'll see how far $400 gets me.
Last edited:
pb4ugo
SILVER Star
That's great news. Essentially what you describe for your build is the same as we did on our boat motor. We had about $650 in it which included a cam and lifters. I already had a double roller timing chain and gears. If you're using the same cam and lifters over again be sure the lifters go back in the same location as they were removed. Cleanliness and degrease is a major key to success in any rebuild.
- Thread starter
- #1,157
Cleanliness? You mean maybe not putting my oily cylinder head on a grassy lawnmower?
Yes - I haven't pulled the lifters because I'm trying to find a clever way to organize them and not screw them up on the re-install. The plan is to re-use the cam and lifters so this will be crucial. At the end of the day, once I factor in what I was planning to purchase on the new motor (valve covers, timing chain, oil pump, balancer, a couple pulleys, and now a re-ring and gaskets) I'll honestly be in it for close to a little over half the cost of a fresh Crate 350 - but I'm leaning toward keeping the 283 and doing a backyard re-ring simply because it will be a great opportunity to learn, and in the grand scheme of things - that's why I bought this hunk of crap to begin with
According to me friend, it "looks like this motor has less than 10,000 miles on it since the rebuild, the crank clearances were just wrong, or they ran oil that was too thin. Only the bottom half of the bearings are shot, the sides and tops are fine so the crank was just sloppy."
Egg carton or better yet egg flat.
I also had to redo a bottom end on a fresh rebuild... caps 3&4 were reversed. Result was a spun bearing. After the rebuild the 2.0L GT6 purred at 4g and hummed at 6.5g... I miss the snarl at 4500 when I stepped into it.
- Thread starter
- #1,160
As in a Triumph GT6? That's another one of my dream cars. In fact, it was the last project car I looked at before buying the Clustertruck. The GT6 in question, unfortunately, was a combination of Mark II and Mark III parts, and most of those parts were actually bondo.
