Builds The Clustertruck Rides Again - Refurbishing a 1975 Chevota

[RWBeringer4x4]

Before fiddiling with a new steering box. Might want to look to see if you have caster shims already, possibly installed wrong. If the shackles are longer than stock, that can cause lack if caster problems.

Hey Cliff (or anyone else who feels like chiming in),

One more thought on this - One of my front shackles is (very) bent. I sincerely doubt this has anything to do with the steering not returning to center, but I've been wrong before (most of the time ).

Also - taking a look at the two somewhat bad shots of my leaves - do you think I'm running any kind of lift? I don't...they seem pretty flat.

Should a power steering modification, with stock-height springs and shackles, necessitate shims?

Thanks all!

 

[Cdaniel]

That is way bent! I would be looking into what else might be bent
Springs look stock. Not sure if adding power would require caster shims. Other than the fact that stock caster is very minimal help turn manual steering. Maybe whatever bent that shackle knocked something else out of whack.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

That is way bent! I would be looking into what else might be bent
Springs look stock. Not sure if adding power would require caster shims. Other than the fact that stock caster is very minimal help turn manual steering. Maybe whatever bent that shackle knocked something else out of whack.

Well, the tie rod ends, and the entire steering system were just rebuilt and realigned - cant think of anything else that might be out of whack to affect steering...

So, unless if hear somewhere that caster shims are necessary, looks like I'll be fooling around with that screw on top of the steering box!

 

[Cdaniel]

I'll be curious to see if that adjustment solves it for you

 

[Cdaniel]

Also, when you say realigned, do you know what your toe is set at?

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

I'll be curious to see if that adjustment solves it for you

Upon further reading I'm starting to wonder if it will...seems like caster might be the issue. Lots of conflicting information out there...but some claim that the Saginaw boxes require different-than-stock caster. Exactly how different, and positive or negative, seems up for debate.

I'm not enough of a steering guru to understand how caster angle would affect steering's ability to recenter. I posed it to the forum, hopefully I'll get some clarification!

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Also, when you say realigned, do you know what your toe is set at?

Not sure - I didn't get that information from the shop, I'll have to ask!

 

[Cdaniel]

Do some Google on caster angle. Not too hard to grasp, its real easy to see on a bicycle when you know what to look at.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Do some Google on caster angle. Not too hard to grasp, its real easy to see on a bicycle when you know what to look at.

I get it in terms of what it is I'm adjusting by adjusting caster - I'm just not sure I grasp it well enough to know if I'd want positive or negative caster with power steering - or if the fact that I'm running power steering means I need to adjust caster from the stock recommendation at all...

 

[Cdaniel]

If power vs manual steering is effecting your need for caster is hard to say. I would hope that the alignment shop would have given you a print out of all the measurements. Stock caster is +1 degree and toe in is .2 to .4 inch depending on the tire according to my FSM. I would also expect a good alignment shop to have you fix that shackle before they touched it. And anything else such as a tweaked u-bolt or spring from that impact.

Positive caster keeps wheels straight when pushed down the road. Negative caster is like a shopping cart. The toe adjustment doesn't effect that center return much, but can add to it.

If your not returning to center at whatever it is now, adding a degree or 2 will improve it. Some will say add even more, but there is a limit before too much causes other issues.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

If power vs manual steering is effecting your need for caster is hard to say. I would hope that the alignment shop would have given you a print out of all the measurements. Stock caster is +1 degree and toe in is .2 to .4 inch depending on the tire according to my FSM. I would also expect a good alignment shop to have you fix that shackle before they touched it. And anything else such as a tweaked u-bolt or spring from that impact.

Positive caster keeps wheels straight when pushed down the road. Negative caster is like a shopping cart. The toe adjustment doesn't effect that center return much, but can add to it.

If your not returning to center at whatever it is now, adding a degree or 2 will improve it. Some will say add even more, but there is a limit before too much causes other issues.

Ok, google just lead me to the same conclusion (negative caster is bad). I'll have to see if I can get the alignment sheet from my mechanic to see where I am.

I inherited a couple of slightly longer than stock shackles from another mud member - if I can find a matching pair, maybe I'll pick up some shims, u-bolts, and pins and get my suspension back up to par. I've been putting it off because, well - everything else is broken too...haha

 

[Cdaniel]

FYI longer shackles in front reduces caster.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

FYI longer shackles in front reduces caster.

Yep - I'll figure out where my caster is, try to determine how much additional I need to compensate for power steering and longer shackles, and buy shims to compensate accordingly. Not sure yet that I will even use the longer shackles - they look like the CCOT extended barbell style - non greasable.

 

[Cdaniel]

Food for thought on greasable pins

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/382945-i-am-so-done-greasable-spring-pins.html

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Food for thought on greasable pins

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/382945-i-am-so-done-greasable-spring-pins.html

Yeah, read that too - not sure "greasable" is worth it - also not sure extended shackles are worth it!

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Update from the Mechanic RE: Caster

I talked to my mechanic, sounds like the alignment was set to stock - 1 degree positive caster angle...

I'm not getting any death wobble (only taken it to about 50mph so far) and the tires aren't tracking ruts in the pavement or anything - steering just isn't resetting. There's also about 1-1.5 inches of "dead" space from center in either direction before the wheels respond. I'm not sure if that's normal...Either way, BOTH of these things were true with the previous power steering box (not resetting and some dead-space) so my guess is caster is the culprit...

Has anyone run their stock settings, with success, when running a saginaw setup - or is more caster pretty much essential?

At this point, should I even mess with the gear-lash settings in the box, or should I assume caster and look for shims, etc. first?

 

[Shark56]

Rick, it might not have anything to do with your steering but I had a my RR shackles bent like that from a hard left rear hit. What did bend, and affected my castor, was the spring pins were broke on the RR and bent on LR. It wasn't plainly visable by looking at the springs.
You might want to check them in the front springs. Jeff

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Rick, it might not have anything to do with your steering but I had a my RR shackles bent like that from a hard left rear hit. What did bend, and affected my castor, was the spring pins were broke on the RR and bent on LR. It wasn't plainly visable by looking at the springs.
You might want to check them in the front springs. Jeff

I think what I am finding out through all this is - I should probably address the entirely jacked-up nature of the front suspension on the truck before trying to address the steering situation further. I think the plan there would be:

1. Replace Shackles/Bushings
2. Replace Spring Pins/Bushings
3. Replace U-bolts
4. Add shims if necessary

I'm in the process of moving to MD, so money normally spent on the truck is going to be spent on useless crap like "a dining room table" for the time being...But this seems like a relatively inexpensive project that could probably be tackled in a weekend. I should probably also see if the spring hanger itself is bent...

 

[Cdaniel]

Now that sounds like a good plan. And when you get anything that needs correcting fixed, find a better alignment shop in MD. Someplace experienced in solid axle 4x4. And hopefully someone with gray hair working the rack.

 

[DSRTRDR]

I think what I am finding out through all this is - I should probably address the entirely jacked-up nature of the front suspension on the truck before trying to address the steering situation further. I think the plan there would be:

1. Replace Shackles/Bushings
2. Replace Spring Pins/Bushings
3. Replace U-bolts
4. Add shims if necessary

I'm in the process of moving to MD, so money normally spent on the truck is going to be spent on useless crap like "a dining room table" for the time being...But this seems like a relatively inexpensive project that could probably be tackled in a weekend. I should probably also see if the spring hanger itself is bent...

your ride quality will improve with the new bushings that alone would be worth it