Steering issue, very scary above 35mph

[sawcutmill]

hello there, I am a new member, but have own LC's since 1984,2 fj60's,and sold them. I currently own a BJ42, for the last 5 years. I love my truck! being diesel, with a new3b in it, that was put in 3 years ago. I get 35+mpg!
I have searched the forum, as a lurker, alot, and have a new problem with my steering. I cant seem to find the answer, or so it seems....I am not as mechanic per se, but am qualified enough to repair the LC myself for most issues, especially when I have had problems in the past but....and this is a big BUT! MY Steering has given me trouble as of late, and the reasons are many, i believe. Here is a quick chronology of what has taken place recently:
1.I replaced the worn out springs(they were orig ,flat and tired) w/ a 4" manafre stock, with new low($) end Rancho shocks, and 2.5" shackles. The shackles that came w the truck were, 5or 6", too beefy an caused so much twist that they were breaking the plate that holds them to the truck.So I had a LC friend weld on new plates.That worked out fine.
2. Then I had my garage, i know what you are going to say...., replace the suspension, springs an shock, bushings , Ubolts etc, which also worked fine EXCEPT that the springs were way TOO stiff! and actually raised the truck by 2" more inches. Every bump in the road now ended up causing my spinal vertebrae to hurt.
3. So, I had the garage remove 2 leafs, as the new springs were thicker and had one leaf more than the original ones.The ride was softer, acceptable. BTW i had the front end tie rods ,pitman arm , an steering stabilizer replaced by Toyota dealership before all this new stuff.all was great EXCEPT.......
4. Now th e steering is such a MESS, it feels like it wants to go in any direction except on the road, feels like I am drunk! wanders for No apparent reason, and is VERY scary, as if I try to correct this while driving, it feels like it might swerve the other direction and cause the LC to crash.Especially with a inside curve or outside curve, it oversteers itself, unexpectadly!
5. at first, we thought it was the front end bearings, birfeilds ,etc, being tired. I had then replaced, as the bearings were actually gone on the inner bearing race. But that did not correct anything.!Knuckle bearings were also replaced.
The reason we thought the steering was off was due to the fct that the wheel actually was able to be shaken from side to side while stopped. and replacing the bearings did fix that, but the steering is is still very scary, I used to be able to drive 80+mph- NOW I cant go over 40mph with out the truck wanting to go in any direction it feel s like, and it is not predictible or controlable, we have tried re aligning, and adjusting all of the components. to no satisfaction, my mechanic is at a complete deadend as to what is causing this! we have done the standard wheeel play, tie rod , alignment thing, but to no avail.
Please be kind to me, as I am not a LC mechanic, and dont need to be told harshly that I have screwed myself by redoing the suspension, which i now know is a really bad thing, and I am willing to live an learn from this, but is there anything I can do to FIX this, other than spending the top dollar on a well engineered suspension system??thanks for your input , regards stephen.
btw , is there a way to post pictures of my LC's front end?

 

[Ian Rogers]

it sounds like you need caster shims go get your caster checked out i bet its like-2*

 

[dgangle]

I would be curious as to what the caster measures. Take it to an alignment shop and pay them $50 to tell you whatcha got. Negative or zero is bad. +1degree is stock. +3 is better, +3-5 degrees is what some have used, especially with larger tires. I am running +5 degrees with 4" SUA lift and 33's and it steers and flat tows exceptionally well.

 

[Pin_Head]

x3

It sounds like a caster problem.

 

[sawcutmill]

The caster angle! ok , another new term for me. there is so much physics involved that it is amazing, as this learning curve is getting overwhelming. I had to actually look up "caster angle " on google.
So in essence , it appears that the angle on the truck as it sits now is slighly forward, while looking at it from the side, and you are suggesting that the angle should be angled back 3degrees? yes?
And after that , should it get aligned again? i am assuming that would be a "yes".
BTW, I want to thank you all for responding so quickly, you guys are the best.Stephen.

 

[dgangle]

Yes, angle back on the top. You can do this/have it done by inserting shims made specifically for this purpose. The angle of the shim you will put in depends on what your caster presently measures and where you want to take it to. If you are -1 and if you want +3 then you need 4 degree shims. This is just an example, you may have differnet requirements.

There is a whole discussion on the best type to put in. Generally speaking, aluminum ones are considered inferior since they can corrode, loosen and come out in the severest of uses. If you are a normal street driver, aluminum should last many years. There are even places that will make ones exaclty to your specs (width, angle, material, etc) but these can get pricy. Any reputable local spring/drivetrain or 4WD shop can help you with this.

 

[woody]

what you are experiencing is commonly known as "death wobble" - while there are a ton of things to check regarding the front steering/suspension, the first is the caster angle..

then....
re-torque u-bolts
inspect all spring bushings for slop
inspect all steering linkages
re-check trunion/knuckle torque
inspect all bearings - repack or replace
wheel balance
...and quite a few more....pretty much anything attached to the front axle needs to be inspected and brought to factory spec....

factory caster is fine for stock to 31" tires, but the bigger the tire, the more caster they like....

guaranteed a 4" lift spring combined with longer shackles tossed your caster outta whack...and that same lift may enhance another steering issue too...

 

[sawcutmill]

here is a resized photo of my BJ42, 1981

 

[sawcutmill]

another showing front end.

 

[pbgbottle]

not sure if i read right ,but the truck doesn't angle back the steering knuckle is where ya check the castor angle ,on the front axle .here's a pic ,copy and paste from another thread . checking castor angle on front axle . with knuckle removed .

 

[Pete]

Sawcut,

Go to Spector's on-line catalog at sor.com and do a search for caster shim. You will find under Caster Correctioon Shims a table that will tell you what shims you need for what length shackles you are running. I'd bet dollars to donuts that the caster is your problem as th eother guys have said.

If you're getting a lot of vibration from the driveline you might need shims in the rear too to correct the pinion angle.

Pete

 

[roddie1154]

what if the steering stabilizers gone? would that also cause the 'death wobble'? coz im having the same problem at 40 kph! that way less than 35mph...

 

[Brian in Oregon]

I just had this problem and found it was inperfect balancing on mainly my front tires. One of them was off by 7 ounces on the inside and 2 ounces on the outside of the rim - and no, none of the weights were missing. Either the tire spun on the rim or the shop that had balanced the tire didn't do a very good job if it.

 

[lone gunman]

also have them check toe-in (sp) angle. its one of the things they check durring a front end alignment. if its off it can cause you to follow ruts too.

 

[Adventure Teq]

what if the steering stabilizers gone? would that also cause the 'death wobble'? coz im having the same problem at 40 kph! that way less than 35mph...

Has nothing to do with it. Run a search and you'll find out all about it. Might be a good idea to replace it or just remove it all together. JMO

It's been a while since the death wobble has been discussed. I swear it's like a vicious cycle.

As the others have said, get yer caster checked and adjust accordingly.

Couple of visual aids.

Consider new spring bolts while you're at it.

And a good tech link to boot.

http://www.stengelbros.com/Alignment.htm

Enjoy.

 

[bsevans]

This sounds like it may be two issues. I do not see where you talk about the toe-in being checked after the steering linkages were changed out. I do not know anyone who has put a 4" lift SUA that did not need to correct the caster angle with shims. I think you need to correct the caster angle first and then have it realigned for proper toe-in. Some tire shops will do both. Here in Tucson there are a number of 4x4 shops that makes a living doing these corrections. You could go to a differential shop that has experience with correcting the caster on lifted 4x4s.

 

[fjwagon]

I had the same problem when I lifted mine 4 inches. Hopefully, It just needs a little tweaking. But most importantly, start checking for loose hardware and items that are worn out in the steering system as mentioned above by Woody. The factory steering has a lot of moving parts and several worn out parts can quickly give you the same problem.

 

[bsevans]

Have someone move the steering wheel back and forth from 10:00 to 2:00 and look at your center arm assembly. If it rocks in the housing, mounted at the corner of the drivers frame rail and cross member, rebuild or replace.

 

[roddie1154]

so whats the function of the steering stabilizer?

 

[Adventure Teq]

As I see it,

It is mostly only useful if A: you have huge tires WITH power steering, or B: small tires WITHOUT powersteering. Either way it's really just there to dampen lateral impacts from the tires so that less force goes up through the steering column and to your wheel, thereby saving you from busting your knuckles when you hit that big rock ledge at an angle.

In no way is it meant to smoothen your steering when there are no bumps or help with alignment issues.