SQOD Squad - Stupid Question Of the Day (9 Viewers)

[afgman786]

Yes, even with all of the traction aids turned off it still limits RPMs.

I was at an offroad training event this last weekend and one of the exercises we were doing was being stuck in a cross axle situation, and using left foot braking to shift weight and drive out of it. I had all of the electronic aids turned off (part of the training process). The technique involves holding the brake to the floor while increasing up to about 2500 RPMs. Both my land cruiser and several modern 4Runners found that the vehicle limited (cut) RPMs no matter how far you push the skinny pedal.

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Thats it! When I got passed 2500rpm it would start cutting power depending on how much brake I was also applying. It was pretty slick and I've learned with no traction aids so I would lay into the brakes a good bit while gassing up some of the real slippery stuff to keep a constant load on the axles and there were many times it would cut power.

This is the first time I've had this happen to me or at least been pushing the 200 so hard I noticed it. I want to say I've been able to 2 foot in the past but those times my center diff never locked.

So I'm wonder if the computer was cutting the power to limit the amount of bind I was causing the t-case. Being biased to the front brakes and having that much pressure up front with a locked center only makes sense to cause serious bind up and might be why the computers cut power. There was one rocky climb where I thought my center diff was locked but I was getting a lot of wheel spin and was able to 2 foot up that properly. Got to the top tried to "disengage" center diff and heard it lock and then couldn't properly 2foot again.

Make you you press and "HOLD" the TRAC button until it illuminates the amber light on the Tach. Very helpful in sand.

Oh yea I hold it til it makes the dig and shows VCS disabled and the traction symbol. But then after locked the diff I got "check VCS system" or something along those lines and was never able to engage crawl control. First time I wasn't able to turn on crawl control was this trip. Was also 1st time center diff worked as it was supposed to throughout the weekend

 

[EverywhereBear]

Mutli question SQOD:

Is crawl control supposed to work with center diff locked? I thought it was.
This past weekend there was a time or 2 I tried to engage it with no luck.

Yes on my 18LX crawl control works with center diff on. I was out this weekend and used cc with center diff.

At Overland Expo East 2019, I took a course on left foot braking. The instructor suggested not reving higher than 1200-1500 rpm. In cross-axel situations, I needed to be off the brakes for traction control to brake the wheel with no traction and transfer power to the wheel with traction. I think I have a video of me on the course will to find and post it.

 

[afgman786]

Yes on my 18LX crawl control works with center diff on. I was out this weekend and used cc with center diff.

At Overland Expo East 2019, I took a course on left foot braking. The instructor suggested not reving higher than 1200-1500 rpm. In cross-axel situations, I needed to be off the brakes for traction control to brake the wheel with no traction and transfer power to the wheel with traction. I think I have a video of me on the course will to find and post it.

Guessing the "check VCS" message is what was not allowing CC to work then.

 

[Ratchey]

The reason it is happening is Toyota was sued for allowing full throttle while someone was pressing on the brake. People claimed the vehicles were still accelerating when they were pressing on the brake. People died. It was a safety recall for the older models like mine and I was not allowed to refuse it when I went in for the seat belt recall. It cuts the power when you apply brake and gas in case you use 2 feet to brake and one foot "slips" off to the accelerator.

Similar to the reason front floor mats are required to have clips to hold them in place.

 

[afgman786]

The reason it is happening is Toyota was sued for allowing full throttle while someone was pressing on the brake. People claimed the vehicles were still accelerating when they were pressing on the brake. People died. It was a safety recall for the older models like mine and I was not allowed to refuse it when I went in for the seat belt recall. It cuts the power when you apply brake and gas in case you use 2 feet to brake and one foot "slips" off to the accelerator.

Similar to the reason front floor mats are required to have clips to hold them in place.

Wow did not know that.. I thought the runaway recall that happened did with floor mat and something else..
Good information there, but really sucks that there isn't a way around it. Makes me miss the old days of throttle cables

 

[stonekutters]

New stupid question:

Across multiple posts I see the advise of moving away from larger rims to smaller rims and increasing the tire sidewall for better off-road performance. My issue is that "off-road" means very different things to different people ranging from driving on dirt roads all the way to rock crawling. I am trying to assess if its worth moving away from my stock 21" rims or not for my use cases.

In general, what is a good way to fill this table?

Scenario	Rim size(s)	Tire size(s)
Snow (plowed) driving on street
Snow (< 2ft) driving on forest service roads
Driving on dirt roads (e.g. forest service roads)
Driving on mix of dirt, sand, and small rocks
Rock crawling
Dry weather street driving
Rain / mud on forest service roads

Please feel free to add other scenarios I may have missed, thanks!

 

[lx200inAR]

I can’t imagine having a different answer between any of these categories, except “rock crawling.” And if rock crawling is a goal, a new lx is probably well down the list of the right tool for the task. I think the biggest problem with 21” wheels is the lack of tire options, unless you want a road tire, in which case, the 21” is probably fine.

I’ll add some anecdotal commentary. I went from 20” Michelin highway tires to 17” Toyo ATIIIs, and the little bit of fire road/gravel road driving I’ve done was immensely more sure footed and comfortable. Not that I had any trouble with gravel with my 20s. And plenty of people here run 20” ATs with no trouble. But the difference was being jarred driving 15-20mph on the 20s vs bombing down the road at 40-45mph on the 17s. Also though, in my swap I went from a 31” to a 34” tire. If I had added 3” sidewall to a 20” wheel, it probably would work nearly as well.

 

[stonekutters]

I can’t imagine having a different answer between any of these categories, except “rock crawling.” And if rock crawling is a goal, a new lx is probably well down the list of the right tool for the task. I think the biggest problem with 21” wheels is the lack of tire options, unless you want a road tire, in which case, the 21” is probably fine.

What rim / tire size would you use across the categories (except rock crawling)?

 

[lx200inAR]

What rim / tire size would you use across the categories (except rock crawling)?

I added a bit to my previous post. I think 17” wheels tires are best option, but that’s mostly a fiscal decision. I think if moderate off road is the main goal, anything from 17-20” is fine, and it’s just up to whatever tickles your fancy. And if you think you don’t want an AT tire, 21s work fine too.

 

[CharlieS]

The reason it is happening is Toyota was sued for allowing full throttle while someone was pressing on the brake. People claimed the vehicles were still accelerating when they were pressing on the brake. People died. It was a safety recall for the older models like mine and I was not allowed to refuse it when I went in for the seat belt recall. It cuts the power when you apply brake and gas in case you use 2 feet to brake and one foot "slips" off to the accelerator.

Similar to the reason front floor mats are required to have clips to hold them in place.

I had no idea. Thanks for sharing. Makes total sense when you put it that way. I do wish it was selectable like the other electronic aids.

Although it may be a limited use case, a “full manual mode” would be a nice feature. They could even require you to click through a disclaimer and liability waiver on the display to CYA.

Was sharing this info with one of the instructors just now, and he shared this link with me: Thanks To Toyota, This Could Be The End Of Left-Foot Braking - https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/amp537/thanks-to-toyota-this-could-be-the-end-of-left-foot-braking-9622/

He asked if something like the Pedal Commander might help? Or is this so embedded in the programming of some ECU that it is just unavoidable?

 

[thezbone]

Just picked up a 2013 200 this weekend and I appreciate all the high level off-road theory and tech talk. Allow me to bring things back down to Earfff:

Do the two lights on the rear hatch have a button that activates them, or should they be turning on when I open the hatch? Mine don't turn on and I'm wondering if they're off or if the bulbs/something else has failed. The truck only has 54k miles on it so I'm not inclined to think the latter, but I couldn't find any other way to turn them on.

 

[terrapin]

Speaking of the rear hatch, is there a way (through Techstream or otherwise) to disable the beep when closing the hatch/tailgate? I find it annoying when I am camping and everything is quiet. Yes, I know I can close it manually

 

[CharlieS]

Just picked up a 2013 200 this weekend and I appreciate all the high level off-road theory and tech talk. Allow me to bring things back down to Earfff:

Do the two lights on the rear hatch have a button that activates them, or should they be turning on when I open the hatch? Mine don't turn on and I'm wondering if they're off or if the bulbs/something else has failed. The truck only has 54k miles on it so I'm not inclined to think the latter, but I couldn't find any other way to turn them on.

My 2013 didn't have lights on the hatch from the factory. Maybe an aftermarket addition? Could you post a picture, maybe that would help us help you?

 

[gaijin]

Just picked up a 2013 200 this weekend and I appreciate all the high level off-road theory and tech talk. Allow me to bring things back down to Earfff:

Do the two lights on the rear hatch have a button that activates them, or should they be turning on when I open the hatch? Mine don't turn on and I'm wondering if they're off or if the bulbs/something else has failed. The truck only has 54k miles on it so I'm not inclined to think the latter, but I couldn't find any other way to turn them on.

My 2013 LC200, bought new, also does not have any lights on the hatch. Please post pics so we know what you're talking about.

 

[KLF]

The reason it is happening is Toyota was sued for allowing full throttle while someone was pressing on the brake. People claimed the vehicles were still accelerating when they were pressing on the brake. People died. It was a safety recall for the older models like mine and I was not allowed to refuse it when I went in for the seat belt recall. It cuts the power when you apply brake and gas in case you use 2 feet to brake and one foot "slips" off to the accelerator.

Similar to the reason front floor mats are required to have clips to hold them in place.

This is true (both). I meant to post a similar response, explaining why it operates this way. And it was for exactly the reasons stated. Remember the family that was killed when an ES350 ran away from them and they couldn't get it stopped? Floor mat (improperly installed) got stuck on the gas pedal, and the driver couldn't get the car stopped. I think it was back around 2007-8.

So now if somebody tries to say the car ran away from them with a stuck accelerator, Toyota can say "not possible, and here's why".

 

[chalice]

Just picked up a 2013 200 this weekend and I appreciate all the high level off-road theory and tech talk. Allow me to bring things back down to Earfff:

Do the two lights on the rear hatch have a button that activates them, or should they be turning on when I open the hatch? Mine don't turn on and I'm wondering if they're off or if the bulbs/something else has failed. The truck only has 54k miles on it so I'm not inclined to think the latter, but I couldn't find any other way to turn them on.

Believe those lights turn on when the headlights are on and you have the hatch open.

 

[ikarus]

New stupid question:

Across multiple posts I see the advise of moving away from larger rims to smaller rims and increasing the tire sidewall for better off-road performance. My issue is that "off-road" means very different things to different people ranging from driving on dirt roads all the way to rock crawling. I am trying to assess if its worth moving away from my stock 21" rims or not for my use cases.

In general, what is a good way to fill this table?

Scenario	Rim size(s)	Tire size(s)
Snow (plowed) driving on street	Whatever	any size of dedicated snow tire
Snow (< 2ft) driving on forest service roads	Whatever	any size of dedicated snow tire, but I usually avoid offroad snow to be honest. Too easy to get stuck
Driving on dirt roads (e.g. forest service roads)	17-18"	285/70r17, 285/65r18 + E rated - all terrain or mud tire
Driving on mix of dirt, sand, and small rocks	17-18"	285/70r17, 285/65r18 + E rated - all terrain or mud tire
Rock crawling	17"	285/75r17 - 315/70r17 + E rated mud tire
Dry weather street driving	Whatever	285/60r18 or similar dedicated road tire for best mpg
Rain / mud on forest service roads	17-18"	285/70r17, 285/65r18 + E rated dedicated mud tire

Please feel free to add other scenarios I may have missed, thanks!

I like to air down if I'm going to be on trails for most of the day. Even if they're a mix of dirt, rocks, forest service, whatever, it makes it more comfortable and gives you better grip over obstacles. You would want as much sidewall as possible in that case - 17" for sure, maybe 18" - and then at least 33-35" tires.

Another factor in addition to a larger sidewall is the load rating of the tire. If you get a respected off road tire like a Toyo R/T or M/T, or BFG KM3, in my opinion you get an E-rated tire for stiffer/tougher sidewalls. With a larger wheel and lower rated tires you run the risk of tearing a sidewall on the trail. Larger tougher sidewalls flex around obstacles better and resist punctures. I'm going on 7 years with 0 flats on 7 different sets of E rated mud/dirt tires on 4 different vehicles (2 cruisers, 2 tacomas) with probably 5K+ miles of offroad driving (plus all the miles going to and from Moab, trailheads, etc.)

For snow, you can also air down depending on the scenario - but that's more deep powder than slick packed ice. As noted above I just avoid snowy trails. Too sketchy for me, unless you're with friends and you're out to get stuck and have fun recovering trucks, which is cool too.

Filled out your chart according to my opinion!

 

[stonekutters]

I like to air down if I'm going to be on trails for most of the day. Even if they're a mix of dirt, rocks, forest service, whatever, it makes it more comfortable and gives you better grip over obstacles. You would want as much sidewall as possible in that case - 17" for sure, maybe 18" - and then at least 33-35" tires.

Another factor in addition to a larger sidewall is the load rating of the tire. If you get a respected off road tire like a Toyo R/T or M/T, or BFG KM3, in my opinion you get an E-rated tire for stiffer/tougher sidewalls. With a larger wheel and lower rated tires you run the risk of tearing a sidewall on the trail. Larger tougher sidewalls flex around obstacles better and resist punctures. I'm going on 7 years with 0 flats on 7 different sets of E rated mud/dirt tires on 4 different vehicles (2 cruisers, 2 tacomas) with probably 5K+ miles of offroad driving (plus all the miles going to and from Moab, trailheads, etc.)

For snow, you can also air down depending on the scenario - but that's more deep powder than slick packed ice. As noted above I just avoid snowy trails. Too sketchy for me, unless you're with friends and you're out to get stuck and have fun recovering trucks, which is cool too.

Filled out your chart according to my opinion!

Thank you so much, super helpful!

As a follow-up: The trails I would be doing are forest service roads and a few dry desert river washes. Total off-road miles are likely under 150miles. Would 21” rims and factory tires be OK for such roads/distances?

 

[thezbone]

My 2013 didn't have lights on the hatch from the factory. Maybe an aftermarket addition? Could you post a picture, maybe that would help us help you?

My 2013 LC200, bought new, also does not have any lights on the hatch. Please post pics so we know what you're talking about.

I'm now questioning what year 200 I bought... Haha

I am 99% sure it's a 2013. Only other mod is a trailer brake and it looks like the lights on my 100's hatch, so I assumed it was stock? I'll try to remember to get a pic this evening.

Believe those lights turn on when the headlights are on and you have the hatch open.

I'll try this tonight as well and see if I can get some light in my life.

 

[KLF]

Do the two lights on the rear hatch have a button that activates them, or should they be turning on when I open the hatch? Mine don't turn on and I'm wondering if they're off or if the bulbs/something else has failed.

My 2015 LC also had no lights on it, but I've since added a pair at the far corners that come on with the dome lights, and a much brighter National Luna light in the center that is independent.

Would like to see a photo of these lights, but my bet is they were added by the PO.